The world only protests when Israel Strikes

[The Other Guy]

Hamas may be "Patriots", but if they are they are miguided ones. They are taking every wrong turn on te way to independence, and causing huge damages to their people.

Prague Spring didnt' do a lot of good things for Czechoslovakia. I mean, it did get invaded. They were certainly well-guided.

 

[MontyB]

Ok since this thread appears to be circling the drain how about we cut to the chase.

There are a few people here who don't accept Israels claim to the area and there are people here who do accept it, after 15 pages of cyclic justifications and counter points I think it fair to say that 30 pages from now we will have gone no further than we were 10 pages ago.

So rather than go through this pointless exercise how about we cut to the chase and all accept that:
A) Israel is going no where (even if it can't be justified it is not going to be packed up and moved).

B) The Palestinians are going no where either.

So the only question left is how is this mess going to be fixed given that a one nation fix is impossible and that the only proposed two state fix looks like jig saw puzzle with half the bits missing.

 

[senojekips]

Therefore, do you support the call for PEACE? A permanent negotiated peace?

And you talk of "bluster packages" ??? Give us all a break.

To the question above: Most certainly, (you can interpret that as YES), but there is very little chance of that ever happening because I know and you know that the Zionists will never return Palestine to those from whom it was stolen, so it is rather pointless to waste time talking about it, isn't it.

From what I can deduce from your line of questioning, in your simple world everything is black or white, or at least my answers are. If you took the time to read what I, and others have said, you could have worked out my intent very easily yourself.

 

[senojekips]

Directed at Del Boy,

Are we going to repeat the entire thread because you can't draw a conclusion from the data already presented?

So, you see it also? May i ask, why is it when someone here enters a debate that it always goes in circles, and he cannot (will not?) read or successfully understand the meaning of peoples posts. Basing his last question purely on the previous post and not taking into account anything said previously other than that said by himself?

Ok since this thread appears to be circling the drain how about we cut to the chase.

There are a few people here who don't accept Israels claim to the area and there are people here who do accept it, after 15 pages of cyclic justifications and counter points I think it fair to say that 30 pages from now we will have gone no further than we were 10 pages ago.

So rather than go through this pointless exercise how about we cut to the chase and all accept that:
A) Israel is going no where (even if it can't be justified it is not going to be packed up and moved).

B) The Palestinians are going no where either.

So the only question left is how is this mess going to be fixed given that a one nation fix is impossible and that the only proposed two state fix looks like jig saw puzzle with half the bits missing.

Thank you Monty.

The answer is simple, unsavoury, and already being implemented by the Israelis,.. "Genocide in penny lots". Or at the very least killing all their opposition, which amounts to the same thing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I also noticed that no one commented on the link I posted? I know that it's "only propaganda", but I though someone may have said something.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=03b_1231271989

 

[Del Boy]

Directed at Del Boy,So, you see it also? May i ask, why is it when someone here enters a debate that it always goes in circles, and he cannot (will not?) read or successfully understand the meaning of peoples posts. Basing his last question purely on the previous post and not taking into account anything said previously other than that said by himself?

Thank you Monty.

You are again hiding behind bluster to avoid answering a yeas or no answer to a simple straightforward question. But Monty ganging up cannot save you from the question; I will return to him at a later date.

You have stated specifically that you do not support the call for the annihilation of the State of Israel. So the simple answer required is :-

'Do you support the call for PEACE in the region?' - this is cut to the chase time.


If you again seek to avoid this question, I suggest you get off the pot and keep your suppositions and prejudiced opinions to yourself.


***
Meanwhile I leave you with another reflection on the truth . Read and learn:-


By British historian Andrew Roberts - May 8, 2008

The State of Israel has packed more history into her sixty years on the planet – which she celebrates this week – than many other nations have in six hundred. There are many surprising things about this tiny, feisty, brave nation the size of Wales, but the most astonishing is that she has lived to see this birthday at all. The very day after the new state was established, she was invaded by the armies of no fewer than five Arab countries, and she has been struggling for her right to life ever since.

From Morocco to Afghanistan, from the Caspian Sea to Aden, the 5.25 million square miles of territory belonging to members of the Arab League is home to over 330 million people, whereas Israel covers only eight thousand square miles, and is home to seven million citizens, one-fifth of whom are Arabs. The Jews of the Holy Land are thus surrounded by hostile states 650 times their size in territory and sixty times their population, yet their last, best hope of ending two millennia of international persecution – the State of Israel – has somehow survived.

When during the Second World War, the island of Malta came through three terrible years of bombardment and destruction, it was rightly awarded the George Medal for bravery: today Israel should be awarded a similar decoration for defending democracy, tolerance and Western values against a murderous onslaught that has lasted twenty times as long.

Jerusalem is the site of the Temple of Solomon and Herod. The stones of a palace erected by King David himself are even now being unearthed just outside the walls of Jerusalem. Everything that makes a nation state legitimate – blood shed, soil tilled, two millennia of continuous residence, international agreements – argues for Israel's right to exist, yet that is still denied by the Arab League. For many of their governments, which are rich enough to have solved the Palestinian refugee problem decades ago, it is useful to have Israel as a scapegoat to divert attention from the tyranny, failure and corruption of their own regimes.

The tragic truth is that it suits Arab states very well to have the Palestinians endure permanent refugee status, and whenever Israel puts forward workable solutions they have been stymied by those who interests put the destruction of Israel before the genuine well-being of the Palestinians. Both King Abdullah I of Jordan and Anwar Sadat of Egypt were assassinated when they attempted to come to some kind of sane accommodation with a country that most sane people now accept is not going away.


YOU SEE, the only answer lies in a negotiated permanent PEACE, and constant one-way criticism of Israel only, and dismissal of its claims to its homeland, only fans the flames of hatred and war. Adding strength by propaganda of that kind gives strength to those dedicated to the annihilation of the State of Israel. I am arguing here against those who support the shelling Israel and the case that Israel has no right its homeland, and that Israel has no right to defend itself, instead of supporting the reality of the situation and attemoting to bring peace and prosperity to all in the region. I have nothing but contempt for those who do not support the call for a permanent peace.

 

[senojekips]

Above we have a perfect example of Del Boys complete inability to read an answer or understand it.

To the question above: Most certainly, (you can interpret that as YES),.

Now stop p!ssing people about, get of your own bloody pot, as you put it and start reading the answers you are given before you go rambling off on one of you "magical mystery tours".

I have saved a copy of the page for future reference, should you dispute this stupidity. Which no doubt you will.

Of course my opinions are predjudiced, Predjudiced: = pre judged. Exactly how stupid can you be. By definition, all personal opinion is pre judged, otherwise it would not be your opinion would it.

 

[MontyB]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I also noticed that no one commented on the link I posted? I know that it's "only propaganda", but I though someone may have said something.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=03b_1231271989

What is there to discuss in that report, I think it is a very good description of where a lot of people stand on the issue but the problem is that like most disagreements it won't be answered because it cant be answered without a level of incrimination and on top of this those that don't agree with it can produce a report just as convincing saying something else. Basically she is absolutely correct in one aspect until we can agree on a starting point to this conflict there will be no agreement on a solution.

You are again hiding behind bluster to avoid answering a yeas or no answer to a simple straightforward question. But Monty ganging up cannot save you from the question; I will return to him at a later date.

It is not ganging up it is pointing out that all the answers to your questions have already been given in previous posts just read the thread and add something to it rather than continually requiring answers to questions that have already been answered in the hopes of getting a different answer.

As far as getting to me goes well I hope you understand that I am more than happy to ignore you as soon you start going off like a jet powered unicycle (full speed ahead but directionless).

 

[Del Boy]

I missed your yes, ONLY because you double-posted!!! Very advantageous for you, that little mistake. I hope you treasure the copy of your carelessness, which created such confusion.

I am delighted at your confirmation that you do not support the call for the annihilation of Israel and that you do in fact support the call for a permanent negotiated peace in the region. That is precisely the Israelis have, a deep dream of peace.

Coming as it does from one who supports the shelling of Israel (and before the current Gaza situation), and who refers to the people of Israel as Nazis, and claimed on one occasion that the Jews brought their problems upon themselves by failing to integrate (in Europe), that is very welcome news indeed .

We have resolved the issue - we all here seek peace for the people of the region; we all deplore the need for violence; we all look forward to seeing Israel living in peace with its neighbours.

Allelujah !

 

[wolfen]

Vlad Tepes was a terrorist to the Turks, but a savior to you.

Gavrilo Princip was a terrorist to the Austrians, but a savior to the Serbians.

American Revolutionaries were terrorists to the British, but saviors to the Colonists.

Things work both ways. Patriots are terrorists, to their enemies.

Yep, but there is a difference between most people in history and the muslim terrorists, they do what they do because they believe some wannabe named told them to in a book

 

[Del Boy]

Monty B.


When I said I would get back to you I merely meant to take a little time to go through your posts and respond to them carefully.

There is nothing wrong with my sense of direction, it is more a case of picking my way through delicate matters that I find myself unable here to approach openly and directly.
__________________
.

 

[senojekips]

I missed your yes, ONLY because you double-posted!!! Very advantageous for you, that little mistake. I hope you treasure the copy of your carelessness, which created such confusion.

I "Double posted" because there was another person replying to a thread at the time and did not wish the possibility of being accused of modifying my post after the event. But why am i explaining this to you?

It still does not explain why you only read one of my posts, what difference does it make that they were one after the other rather than perhaps having a post or two between them? To be able to post a really informed answer I would have thought it was important to read all of the posts. I would have also thought it very hard (almost impossible) to miss two posts so close together.

If it was confusing,... it seems that that it was only confusing to you, but why does that not surprise me I ask. (Rhetorically).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is added 8 hours later, but so Del Boy won't get "all confused" and miss it, I will go back and add it to my previous post

How Israel brought Gaza to the brink of humanitarian catastrophe

Oxford professor of international relations Avi Shlaim served in the Israeli army and has never questioned the state's legitimacy. But its merciless assault on Gaza has led him to devastating conclusions. More...

This article might make normal civilised people think that maybe there is something wrong in Israel. Others just won't bother.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Padre]

I think if you read the report again you will find the answer to your observation.

Can a third party out there in cyber-space help me out. I re-read Monty's post re. his favourite clergyman, but I still can't see the "answer" to my "observation" (ie. statement of fact).

Priest unrepentant over bloody Gaza protest

A Catholic priest who splattered a mixture of his blood and paint on an Israeli memorial plaque during a protest yesterday said it was a symbolic act and nothing compared to the killing taking place in Gaza.
About 1000 people marched through central Wellington protesting against Israel's air and ground offensive in Gaza and calling on the New Zealand Government to end its neutral stance.
Father Gerard Burns, the parish priest of Te Parisi o te Ngakau Tapu in Porirua, was one of the protest leaders and smeared the blood and paint on the Yitzhak Rabin peace memorial.
Mr Rabin was prime minister of Israel from 1974-1977 and again from 1992-1995. He won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994 and was assassinated by a right-wing Israeli radical in 1995.
Kiwi Friends of Israel called for Father Burns to apologise for his actions.
"Kiwi Friends of Israel strongly supports the right of all New Zealanders to have a robust debate on the rights and wrongs of Israel's policies but attacking peace memorials isn't legitimate behaviour.
"The desecration is doubly contemptible given Mr Rabin's lifelong commitment to peace and stability in Israel and Palestine."
Father Burns does not agree Mr Rabin's commitment to peace was "lifelong", but rather he "converted" to peace later in life.
The paint was a "symbolic action" and a "denunciation of the (Israeli) state, not an attack on the Jewish faith.
"I have a great esteem for the Jewish faith. I mean the founder of Christianity was Jewish ... but, the Israeli state is another beast altogether."
The prophets of Judaism would be criticising Israel's actions, Father Burns said.
An Israeli flag was also burnt at the protest.
There was no comparison between the burning of a flag, or painting of a monument and the killing taking place in Gaza, he said.
As for the New Zealand Government's response, Father Burns believes "not taking a side is taking a side. It's to say you accept what's going on".
He said despite being a small country New Zealand had shown in the past, with opposition to South African rugby tours (during the apartheid era), banning of cluster bombs and anti-nuclear stance, that it could spark global change.
Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully said earlier the Government was not prepared to choose sides.
He said the Government's stance was in line with the international community, including the United Nations and European Union.
Father Burns did not find it strange that a New Zealand Catholic priest should take a stand against an Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
"One of the people that I am very keen to support is the Christian Palestinians. It's not just Jews against Muslims. It's a political war with some religious implications.
"Denouncing injustice is a priestly role ... I might be failing in my duty if I didn't do it."
Catholic Church spokeswoman Lyndsay Freer told The New Zealand Herald priests were entitled to their individual views.
The New Zealand church's stance echoed Pope Benedict's address last week.
"We feel that in the interests of peace and dignity dialogue must take place, and the killing must stop, from both sides."
New Zealand's Tertiary Education Union (TEU) today called on the Israeli and Palestinian governments to "respect the peaceful role that education institutions play in communities" and keep war out of Palestine's schools and tertiary education institutions.
Their call follows the bombing of a Gaza school yesterday that killed over 40 people.
- NZPA

and I responded:

"Funny, I did a Google search and can't find the nutty reverend smearing blood on any Arab/Muslim symbols or protesting in any fashion when Palestinian suicide bombers were blowing up school kids (of all creeds) on Jerusalem buses?"

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Good point Padre. If you're going be obnoxious in public as a protest against the "killing taking place in Gaza", you should be fair and protest all the killing on all sides or just shut up and not be a hypocrite.

 

[MontyB]

That may be the case but remember that your logic works for both sides of this argument, which makes the case that neither side in this conflict are innocent.

Can a third party out there in cyber-space help me out. I re-read Monty's post re. his favourite clergyman, but I still can't see the "answer" to my "observation" (ie. statement of fact).

Just to point out that he is actually one of your lot and for the record I don't have a favourite clergyman I tend to believe that all religions are a ludicrous power grab by a few (the clergy) who gain power scaring the weak into following them.

 

[errol]

The west bank is still the big issue Doody.

 

[Del Boy]

This article might make normal civilised people think that maybe there is something wrong in Israel. Others just won't bother.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What is interpreted as 'something wrong in Israel' is simply the fact that they refuse to roll over and die, this tiime.

Peace is the answer.

 

[senojekips]

What is interpreted as 'something wrong in Israel' is simply the fact that they refuse to roll over and die, this tiime.

Peace is the answer.

A "peace" only achievable if the legitimate land owners of the land to "roll over and die", but that's not happening so the Israelis are gladly helping them along.

Genocide in penny lots, is Israels answer.

Hell,... who needs gas chambers.

 

[SHERMAN]

i wonder if i could lend 5.56s "not this b******t again!" sign.

 

[senojekips]

I've been saying that since this thread started.

"Not this Bulsh!t again"!!!

The answer is simple but unfortunately the Israelis have other plans.

Here is a classic slipup by the Israeli Ambassador to Australia. Don't bother telling me that Israel is not the cause of most of the trouble in the middle east, the facts have been leaked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cznZs-swR9k

It has also been shown conclusively that there is good reason to believe that Israel was planning the Gaza attack whilst still engaged in negotiating the original cease fire,. It appears that in Israel's haste to kill off the Palestinians they are getting very sloppy with their security.

This is most unusual,... are they really getting sloppy, or is it that with "Big Brother" behind them, they just no longer care what the rest of the world thinks?

 

[SHERMAN]

blah blah blah.