The world only protests when Israel Strikes

A "peace" only achievable if the legitimate land owners of the land to "roll over and die", but that's not happening so the Israelis are gladly helping them along.

Genocide in penny lots, is Israels answer.

Hell,... who needs gas chambers.


Well, we know that you hate the very thought of peace in the region - it just wouldn't fit with your embedded prejudices. Let me re-iterate - Peace by negotiation, not the destruction of Israel, is the answer, even though the latter happens to be your own personal preference.

You claim to be the voice of Australia/World opinion/ Everyone, when in fact what you are, in my opinion, is a propagandist for all things anti- Israeli/Jewish. I have come across such characters all my life and their heads are once again popping up above the parapets.

Peace has the right in this question, not support for the continuous aggressors bent on the destruction of Israel. Terrible thought for you, ain't it - PEACE. I like it personally.
 
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Well, we know that you hate the very thought of peace in the region - it just wouldn't fit with your embedded prejudices. Let me re-iterate - Peace by negotiation, not the destruction of Israel, is the answer, even though the latter happens to be your own personal preference.

You claim to be the voice of Australia/World opinion/ Everyone, when in fact what you are, in my opinion, is a propagandist for all things anti- Israeli/Jewish. I have come across such characters all my life and their heads are once again popping up above the parapets.

Peace has the right in this question, not support for the continuous aggressors bent on the destruction of Israel. Terrible thought for you, ain't it - PEACE. I like it personally.
Not even worth dignifying with a reply. You wouldn't understand anyway.
 
the sheer arrogance of telling me about IDF ROEs like its somthing i dont know about and need the so called "unbiassed" world press to learn from is amazing by the way.
Ihave not once mentioned Israeli ROEs, as I wasn't aware they had any.

You are grasping at straws now.
 
nah, usually i laugh when i hear limited/lunatic/pocket jews(finkilstein's case) people state their opinions. but i'm sure you know best, since you live in Australia nad watch your Al-Jazeera channel you are probably the best informed dweller of this forum, so i won't argue with you.
Ahhh,...so you are more Jewish than Mr. Finkelstein? That explains a lot. Once again your narrow minded bigotry and lack of thought about the question shows through, topped off with stupid more assumptions.

For a start where I live we don't have Al Jazeera. I don't even think it is available in my State which by the way, is approximately 45 times the size of your country.

We don't support terrorism here, and what happens to Israel as a result of your own past and present stupidity will not affect us either. As stated by MontyB in an earlier post, you can't ever win, because it is not the nature of your enemy to allow it. Every time you commit an atrocity upon them you just stiffen their resolve and bring another group of fanatics into the fold of hamas or one of the other "terrorist" organisations.

So long as there is just one left alive you will never be able to get away with the theft of their land, and you know that I am right. If you drive them out of their homeland they will operate from your neighbouring countries or even overseas. Unlike Israelis, they are willing to gladly die for their cause, something I think is rather stupid, but then again I don't have an answer for it either, neither do you. Not only that, they have many State supporters who will harbour and finance them from behind the scenes. Some of whom have or are developing nuclear capability.

Israel is fast becoming the most likely architect of it's own destruction.

One day it will just take one small group of fanatics who are willing to sacrifice everything, (and even you are aware that these people do exist). A small dirty nuclear device purchased from some broken down State,... or a much cheaper and easier, bacteriological/chemical option, and it will largely be "all over" for Israel and perhaps half the Middle east. With the way that you are progressing with your genocide it fast becoming a question of "when", rather than "if". Both you and I know that there are fanatics out there who WILL gladly do it, and they don't care because they will be dead anyway.

The world will mourn the stupidity of your actions, but they will certainly be able to understand why it happened.

Now what are you going to accuse me of,.... the old standby, Anti Semitism, nahhh,.. I don't have to do that, you are doing a far better job of it than I ever could. Holocaust Denial??, the Rape of Nanking?.... Perhaps I beat small children, or steal my grandmother's pension cheques.

your claims that the IDF targets civilians is an implication that our ROEs allow that. They do not.
I never said it was allowed under your ROEs, what i said is, that it is happening, and it is happening enough to be more than just an isolated case. It's like when I told you about the army standing by while Israeli settlers stoned an International TV crew, you claimed that the Army was conveniently not allowed to interfere in civil matters. It is plainly obvious that your rules are very "rubbery" as to how they are enforced. Even my limited time in the armed forces, allows me the inside knowledge that ROEs are not always followed, in fact we usually find in these cases that it is not the work of a rogue Officer of enlisted man, but is bought about by a "blind eye' from the topmost echelons. Not that they ever actually get the blame, some minion usually gets court martialled and life goes on.

There is a growing mountain of evidence that would disprove your claim, from all manner of sources.
 
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Ahhh,...so you are more Jewish than Mr. Finkelstein? That explains a lot. Once again your narrow minded bigotry and lack of thought about the question shows through, topped off with stupid more assumptions.

For a start where I live we don't have Al Jazeera. I don't even think it is available in my State which by the way, is approximately 45 times the size of your country.

We don't support terrorism here, and what happens to Israel as a result of your own past and present stupidity will not affect us either. As stated by MontyB in an earlier post, you can't ever win, because it is not the nature of your enemy to allow it. Every time you commit an atrocity upon them you just stiffen their resolve and bring another group of fanatics into the fold of hamas or one of the other "terrorist" organisations.

So long as there is just one left alive you will never be able to get away with the theft of their land, and you know that I am right. If you drive them out of their homeland they will operate from your neighbouring countries or even overseas. Unlike Israelis, they are willing to gladly die for their cause, something I think is rather stupid, but then again I don't have an answer for it either, neither do you. Not only that, they have many State supporters who will harbour and finance them from behind the scenes. Some of whom have or are developing nuclear capability.

Israel is fast becoming the most likely architect of it's own destruction.

One day it will just take one small group of fanatics who are willing to sacrifice everything, (and even you are aware that these people do exist). A small dirty nuclear device purchased from some broken down State,... or a much cheaper and easier, bacteriological/chemical option, and it will largely be "all over" for Israel and perhaps half the Middle east. With the way that you are progressing with your genocide it fast becoming a question of "when", rather than "if".

The world will mourn the stupidity of your actions, but they will certainly be able to understand why it happened.

Now what are you going to accuse me of,.... the old standby, Anti Semitism, nahhh,.. I don't have to do that, you are doing a far better job of it than I ever could. Holocaust Denial??, the Rape of Nanking?.... Perhaps I beat small children, or steal my grandmother's pension cheques.

I never said it was allowed under your ROEs, what i said is, that it is happening, and it is happening enough to be more than just an isolated case. It's like when I told you about the army standing by while Israeli settlers stoned an International TV crew, you claimed that the Army was conveniently not allowed to interfere in civil matters. It is plainly obvious that your rules are very "rubbery" as to how they are enforced.

There is a growing mountain of evidence that would disprove your claim, from all manner of sources.

1st when i mentioned you live Australia i meant its far away (unlike you i live closer to the action) , i didn't try to hurt your national ego. so no need to teach me geography.
2nd you flood this thread with stupid assumptions which you claim are true from the beginning, so i think i may assume something about finkelstein just like your baseless whines about genocide :)
when i said he is a pocket jew i meant i'm assuming he is sponsored by some saudi sheih.
3rd i won't accuse you of Anti Semitism, you see i smell trolls from kilometers, i just wonder why nobody else whines in this thread besides you. enlighten me please.

"There is a growing mountain of evidence that would disprove your claim, from all manner of sources" bring it on :)
 
Persons such as yourself are not able to be enlightened, as you will not open your eyes to the truth.

As for us being far away, I have been through all this with Sherman. Doesn't the fact that I am able to debate you half way around the world in a matter of seconds, tell you something about what is going on in the world? When someone farts in Reykjavik, we can smell it here as it happens, the days when news got lost in transit, have gone, we see many of your atrocities as they happen, (as well as the suicide bombings in Tel Aviv) uncensored by the military or State. (yours or mine)

I don't whine,I merely tell the truth, and the fact that you object so fiercely tells me I am on the right track. We have a saying here: "When you start taking Flak, you know that you are right over the target"

I use the term genocide regularly in the hope that maybe it will stir your grey matter to remember the events of 60 years ago in Nazi Germany, too many people in the world are stating that the Zionists are the new "Nazis of the middle east" and your constant land seizures are no more than a bid for "Lebensraum". the similarities are too many to be ignored as unpleasant as that may be.

My signature below is more than just something to decorate the bottom of my posts. Don't for a minute think that I hate the Jewish people, (There is already one fool on the forum who can't come up with a better reason than that, and that is enough). I disagree with what they are doing, but that does not blind me to the truth as I see it.
 
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For a start where I live we don't have Al Jazeera. I don't even think it is available in my State which by the way, is approximately 45 times the size of your country.

So, you are thousends and thousends of miles away, you dont speak hebrew or arabic, and yet you are attemting to bring your "undeniable truths" to me(I live here, I speak hebrew and some arabic, I do watch arabic news, I am a student of middle eastern history). And yet you dont think your arrogant when you say my opinions are completely based on lies. funny.

We don't support terrorism here, and what happens to Israel as a result of your own past and present stupidity will not affect us either.
If and when your doomsday vision of my countries collapse will occure, radical islam will have alot of energy to spend and new enemies to find. Trust me, Australia is not that far away.

hamas or one of the other "terrorist" organisations

If by that you mean that hammas is not a terrorist organization, than you are really lost and hovering in space.

One day it will just take one small group of fanatics who are willing to sacrifice everything, (and even you are aware that these people do exist). A small dirty nuclear device purchased from some broken down State,... or a much cheaper and easier, bacteriological/chemical option, and it will largely be "all over" for Israel and perhaps half the Middle east. With the way that you are progressing with your genocide it fast becoming a question of "when", rather than "if". Both you and I know that there are fanatics out there who WILL gladly do it, and they don't care because they will be dead anyway.

Thats entirely possible. Only, unlike what you wrote as a fact, I have no problem dieing for my cause.

I never said it was allowed under your ROEs, what i said is, that it is happening, and it is happening enough to be more than just an isolated case...
...There is a growing mountain of evidence that would disprove your claim, from all manner of sources.

When there is constant fighting for 60 years, there are alot of viloations of ROEs. Sure. Only thing is, Israeli soldiers are western minded. They were not brought up to kill unarmed people. They are also taught the IDF moral code again and again. If you think in the moment of truth all those years of mental training disapear I dont know what to tell you. I can tell you that not a singel IDF operation is launched with the goal of killing or harming unarmed civilians. Ever.

As for us being far away, I have been through all this with Sherman. Doesn't the fact that I am able to debate you half way around the world in a matter of seconds, tell you something about what is going on in the world? When someone farts in Reykjavik, we can smell it here as it happens, the days when news got lost in transit, have gone, we see many of your atrocities as they happen, (as well as the suicide bombings in Tel Aviv) uncensored by the military or State. (yours or mine)

TV dose not subsitute or equal in any way actually seeing hte things happen. There is a man holding the camera.

I don't whine,I merely tell the truth, and the fact that you object so fiercely tells me I am on the right track. We have a saying here: "When you start taking Flak, you know that you are right over the target"
LOL. OK, that is the weakest argument you have made in a while. The reason we are giving you a hard time is that you are taking 1/100th of the truth and mixing it with lies and ideology.

I use the term genocide regularly in the hope that maybe it will stir your grey matter to remember the events of 60 years ago in Nazi Germany, too many people in the world are stating that the Zionists are the new "Nazis of the middle east" and your constant land seizures are no more than a bid for "Lebensraum". the similarities are too many to be ignored as unpleasant as that may be.

What land seizures? We left Siani for peace. We left Lebanon. We left Gaza. What land seizures? Israel has agreed to withdraw from 97% of 1967 territories....WHAT BLOODY LAND SEIZURES?!?! You cant just make up stuff and write it and make believe its true because its written down...As for comparing my country to Nazi Germany, take alook at Hammas's ideology and come back.

the truth as I see it.
Ah finally. You finally managed to understand that god dosent whisper the truth in your ear.
 
3rd i won't accuse you of Anti Semitism, you see i smell trolls from kilometers, i just wonder why nobody else whines in this thread besides you. enlighten me please.

This is an interesting question because it is a little like a double edged sword, while it is fine to insinuate that his opinion is "whining" it could also be asked that why if his opinion is so far off base no one else is is participating to tell him so, seriously if Israel's cause is so just, righteous and beyond reproach where are its supporters, a few years ago the opinions Spike is putting out there would have illicited a huge number of "its all the Arabs fault" replies where have they gone?

In fact I have read more posts in this thread stating the opinion that both parties are in the wrong than I ever expected to see on a predominantly American forum which would indicate that a sizable number of people are simply tired of lame excuses and justifications of the whole damn region.
 
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So, you are thousends and thousends of miles away, you dont speak hebrew or arabic, and yet you are attemting to bring your "undeniable truths" to me(I live here, I speak hebrew and some arabic, I do watch arabic news, I am a student of middle eastern history). And yet you dont think your arrogant when you say my opinions are completely based on lies. funny.{/quote] did you ever stop to think that we get foreign languages translated, I take it that you get no news other than that from arabic countries and Israel,... forgive me id I find your ignorance "Funny".

If and when your doomsday vision of my countries collapse will occure, radical islam will have alot of energy to spend and new enemies to find. Trust me, Australia is not that far away.
And I trust that will be a great comfort to you? They will have a lot of others to devote their energies to before they bother with us.

If by that you mean that hammas is not a terrorist organization, than you are really lost and hovering in space.
By whose definition?
Not all of the organisations are terrorists to all persons, as has been shown on this forum many times. To many, Israel is a terrorist state.

Thats entirely possible. Only, unlike what you wrote as a fact, I have no problem dieing for my cause.
Well when are you going to sacrifice yourself for your cause? The palestinians have a line up. You know what I'm talking about, you may die for your cause, but you won't go and kill yourself just to take out one of them. They will.

When there is constant fighting for 60 years, there are alot of viloations of ROEs. Sure. Only thing is, Israeli soldiers are western minded. They were not brought up to kill unarmed people. They are also taught the IDF moral code again and again. If you think in the moment of truth all those years of mental training disapear I dont know what to tell you. I can tell you that not a singel IDF operation is launched with the goal of killing or harming unarmed civilians. Ever.
Ever,...??? I was refering to things much more recent than the last 60 years.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/06/AR2009010603504_pf.html

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/03/03/AP160303.html

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/08/Jenin310502.html

I could go on and on but I won't waste my time.

TV dose not subsitute or equal in any way actually seeing hte things happen. There is a man holding the camera.
Yes and he is not a terrorist, he is able to speak for himself without the censorship of your government or the military.

LOL. OK, that is the weakest argument you have made in a while. The reason we are giving you a hard time is that you are taking 1/100th of the truth and mixing it with lies and ideology.
You are not giving me a hard time, I have the facts on my side and I have nothing to gain or lose whichever way this debate goes. I'm not defending my country's part in this. I have no reasonto lie or distort the truth. You fell right on your duff there.;)

What land seizures? We left Siani for peace. We left Lebanon. We left Gaza. What land seizures? Israel has agreed to withdraw from 97% of 1967 territories....WHAT BLOODY LAND SEIZURES?!?! You cant just make up stuff and write it and make believe its true because its written down...As for comparing my country to Nazi Germany, take alook at Hammas's ideology and come back.
You are totally unbelievable! in one sentence you say "What land seizures" in the next you say we gave 97% back??? Are you on drugs or do you have difficulty with the language? take a look at the 1947 map and then compare it with today's. What about the lands being stolen in the building of the "Kosher curtain" where you have clearly gone outside the boundaries if Israeli territory?

Israel is set to seize land for wall in West Bank

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By Greg Myre
Published: THURSDAY, AUGUST 25, 2005
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JERUSALEM: Israeli officials confirmed Wednesday that the government has issued orders to seize West Bank land needed to extend the separation barrier around the largest Jewish settlement, Maale Adumim, and link it up to Jerusalem. Read More...http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/08/24/news/gaza.php


Ah finally. You finally managed to understand that god dosent whisper the truth in your ear.
In case you've forgotten I'm the atheist here, I never presume upon God,... ANY god. But I do believe what i see.

I stand on my own two feet, and take responsibility for all I do or do not do.
 
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isent it fun to live in a place where you arnt surrounded by houndreds of millions of enemies?:)

Nah New Zealand is smart enough not to piss anyone off other than Aussies and the English and we leave that of a sports field as well.

You guys should try it some time.
 
did you ever stop to think that we get foreign languages translated, I take it that you get no news other than that from arabic countries and Israel,... forgive me id I find your ignorance "Funny".

Again, you assume wrong, as I get all of the news channels, including the American, British, and French.

And I trust that will be a great comfort to you? They will have a lot of others to devote their energies to before they bother with us.
Not really, ill be dead probably.

By whose definition?
I dunnow. Anyone who thinks blowing up buses full of children and women using 16 year old suicide bombers?


I could go on and on but I won't waste my time.
Well, if your going to post things that have been proven as lies, things tht fall directly in to the "welcome to war" catagory, and idiots that dont move out of the way of armored bulldozers that have limited vision for the driver and drive at 10Mph...Than yes, dont waist my time either.

I have the facts on my side and I have nothing to gain or lose whichever way this debate goes.
You strectch the term "facts" beyond its limits, but OK.

Yes and he is not a terrorist, he is able to speak for himself without the censorship of your government or the military
No he is not a terrorist but he has an opinion just like you and me and his opinion effects hes reporting.

You are totally unbelievable! in one sentence you say "What land seizures" in the next you say we gave 97% back??? Are you on drugs or do you have difficulty with the language? take a look at the 1947 map and then compare it with today's. What about the lands being stolen in the building of the "Kosher curtain" where you have clearly gone outside the boundaries if Israeli territory?

You are against a wall that prevents sucide bombers from bombing civilians. LOL. As for your "living space" theory, Israel is willing to return almost every inch of ground, so obviously its not a land grab, its use of land as a menas to get peace and quiet.


Nah New Zealand is smart enough not to piss anyone off other than Aussies and the English and we leave that of a sports field as well.

You guys should try it some time

Well, being in a military alliance with one of the biggest military powers in the world and being an island thats thousends of miles away from most of the world seems to help alot dosent it:)
 
Well, being in a military alliance with one of the biggest military powers in the world and being an island thats thousends of miles away from most of the world seems to help alot dosent it:)

Umm we do not really have any "military alliances", we were in ANZUS but that was suspended by the US after we enacted our anti-nuclear policy and for all intents and purposes is dead, we have limited exposure to the UK but I would hardly describe them as a "big" military power nor would I describe Australia that way and they would be our biggest military relationship and we don't generally deal with Russia or China.

So I would suggest that we really only rely on our isolation and the fact that we don't go out of our way to piss others off and so far it seems to work fairly well as your average Kiwi is pretty safe anywhere in the world which is also the reason we get pretty annoyed when countries like yours try and make forged copies of our passports.
 
Umm we do not really have any "military alliances", we were in ANZUS but that was suspended by the US after we enacted our anti-nuclear policy and for all intents and purposes is dead, we have limited exposure to the UK but I would hardly describe them as a "big" military power nor would I describe Australia that way and they would be our biggest military relationship and we don't generally deal with Russia or China.
Well, up to the 1940s the UK was a major power, after that you had the USA, today you dont have an alliance with them, but do you think for one second either country would hessitate to defend you if the need arises?

So I would suggest that we really only rely on our isolation and the fact that we don't go out of our way to piss others off and so far it seems to work fairly well as your average Kiwi is pretty safe anywhere in the world which is also the reason we get pretty annoyed when countries like yours try and make forged copies of our passports.

Being an island in the end of the world(well, relativly) makes italmost impossible to annoy other people. As far as the passport thing goes, you know as well as i all countries have fake passports for their spies.
 
Well, up to the 1940s the UK was a major power, after that you had the USA, today you dont have an alliance with them, but do you think for one second either country would hessitate to defend you if the need arises?



The reality is that New Zealand has no real defence ties and probably doesn't need them in the current climate, the only genuine negative we have is the lack of joint training opportunities but I can't really comment on that as my only military experience was at a time when ANZUS was in effect so we did have those opportunites.

Lets be realistic the only country capable of invading New Zealand is the USA and I doubt they could find us on a map with both hands a GPS and a flashlight, Britain would have to get its fleet out of mothballs to get here, Russia needs a bank loan just to fire up a generator and the Chinese navy would more than likely sink the first big wave it hit.

Australia could give it a go but given that there are damn near more Kiwi's on the Aussie east coast than Australians I suspect we are doing a better job at invading than they are. :)

Which one of these "guarantees" our defence?

Now there are just two (perhaps three) alliances:2
• the FPDA, which links New Zealand with Australia and Britain to provide a guarantee of consultations in the case of any threat to the security of Malaysia or Singapore;
• the bilateral relationship with Australia through the Canberra Pact (1944) and the series of public commitments to each otherʹs security given in policy documents and by politicians over the years; and
• ANZUS, which gives a formal link to Australia and the United States, although the US has ʹsuspendedʹ its security guarantee and the alliance operates as, in effect, two separate and quite different bilateral relationships between the US and Australia and between Australia and New Zealand.
 
Again, you assume wrong, as I get all of the news channels, including the American, British, and French.
Hence my point, don't you think that we might also get translated news?


Not really, ill be dead probably.
Which makes it all rather pointless doesn't it? I don't wish it and neither does the rest of the world (with perhaps a very few exceptions).

I dunnow. Anyone who thinks blowing up buses full of children and women using 16 year old suicide bombers?
there are as many definitions of a terrorist as there are terrorists, Just because a man is a terrorist to you does not preclude him from being a patriot in the eyes of another.

Well, if your going to post things that have been proven as lies, things tht fall directly in to the "welcome to war" catagory, and idiots that dont move out of the way of armored bulldozers that have limited vision for the driver and drive at 10Mph...Than yes, dont waist my time either.
You are talking to a person who has possibly spent as many hours on a bulldozer (D4 to D7) as you have in a tank. I have never run over anyone or anything larger than a bucket of tools left under the winch by a lazy mechanic. It could be possible, but not if the driver was aware that people were in the area. I did see the original newsclip and the idiot photographer was many metres in front of the dozer and obviously in clear view, it was obvious that the driver delberately ran over her. The fact that she was being an idiot around heavy machinery is not a good reason to kill someone. How do you explain the the comments of the driver of the bulldozer?

You strectch the term "facts" beyond its limits, but OK.
that is exactly my point. Why should I stretch the truth? As I said, it makes no difference to me one way or the other. I don't have an ulterior motive. I just form my opinions from what I see.

No he is not a terrorist but he has an opinion just like you and me and his opinion effects hes reporting.
It seems odd that all of these people say the same things, and have movie evidence to substantiate their stories. Surely not everyone in the world other than the Israelis and Americans have a grudge against the Israeli people.

You are against a wall that prevents sucide bombers from bombing civilians. LOL. As for your "living space" theory, Israel is willing to return almost every inch of ground, so obviously its not a land grab, its use of land as a menas to get peace and quiet.
I never said anything of the kind, What I inferred was that if you want the Kosher curtain,... build it on your own land, bulldoze a few Israeli houses if it's so important.
 
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Of course it is easy but it is also easier to look at something impartially when it doesn't affect you.

Lets be realistic here for Israel to win this conflict on its own terms you would effectively have not only defeat the entire middle eastern Arab nations but also occupy them until such times as they become "less anti-Israel" and that just isn't going to happen not in your lifetime nor 1000 lifetimes, mean while the Palestinians cannot lose simply because they have nothing to lose.

The only viable option to end this mess is an equitable negotiated settlement as in one that both parties can live with but the longer you go around "enforcing" your will on the region the harder that settlement is going to become.

In my opinion the only way anything is going to be settled will involve yet another redrawing of the national boundries of the region so that some form of viable (as in not 27000 one acre blocks) Palestinian nation can be formed and we all know how well that has worked out in the past.
 
If I do not get off this computer and do some work around the house there will be a war far worse than Israel has ever seen, right here in my computer room. Hamas will look like amateurs alongside my Missus.

I'll be back!!
 
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