The world only protests when Israel Strikes

[The Other Guy]

So, you are thousends and thousends of miles away, you dont speak hebrew or arabic, and yet you are attemting to bring your "undeniable truths" to me(I live here, I speak hebrew and some arabic, I do watch arabic news, I am a student of middle eastern history). And yet you dont think your arrogant when you say my opinions are completely based on lies. funny.

In seno's defense, just because a person lives there doesn't mean they know what's going on. I know people who attend my high school who can't tell me where the US is on a map.

 

[SHERMAN]

Hence my point, don't you think that we might also get translated news?

I do not require translation for CNN, i speak english(well, more or less ) . You need to understand that many times translations are very far from the actual words being said.

Which makes it all rather pointless doesn't it? I don't wish it and neither does the rest of the world (with perhaps a very few exceptions).

No, i see nothing pointlees about dieing for my country.

there are as many definitions of a terrorist as there are terrorists, Just because a man is a terrorist to you does not preclude him from being a patriot in the eyes of another.

You can be a very patriotic terrorist, but you still are a terrorist.

It seems odd that all of these people say the same things, and have movie evidence to substantiate their stories. Surely not everyone in the world other than the Israelis and Americans have a grudge against the Israeli people.

Im not going to re-explain my entire view on the self-hatin european politics of the lat 60 years. either way, if israel actually used our stock film of terror attacks you would be mortified, but we dont, because its against our religion and our moral. we dont use dead bodies to make political profit.

I never said anything of the kind, What I inferred was that if you want the Kosher curtain,... build it on your own land, bulldoze a few Israeli houses if it's so important.

I agree comletely, and ive said it before, the settelments must go. But first, we must make sure the other side can actually take ownership of the ground(see Sinai) and that we are not handing it over to anarhy and terrorists(see Gaza, Lebanon)

Lets be realistic here for Israel to win this conflict on its own terms you would effectively have not only defeat the entire middle eastern Arab nations but also occupy them until such times as they become "less anti-Israel" and that just isn't going to happen not in your lifetime nor 1000 lifetimes, mean while the Palestinians cannot lose simply because they have nothing to lose.

No, you are wrong. The fact is if it wasent for the Iranis and other non-palestinian radicals we would have an agreement by now.

In my opinion the only way anything is going to be settled will involve yet another redrawing of the national boundries of the region so that some form of viable (as in not 27000 one acre blocks) Palestinian nation can be formed and we all know how well that has worked out in the past.

Indeed, the entire middle east is made of make believe countries. The Palestinians will have their own country, on the west bank and Gaza, but it will take longer than it has to because right now they dont even have one leadership.

 

[wolfen]

Just like the Japanese at Pearl Harbour,... eh. It's amazing how short some people's memories are when it suits them.

Israel was lapping up the world's approval for getting out of Gaza, all the time planning to torment the Gazans into committing an act that they could then use to justify attacking the civilian population.

I know that Hammas is a "terrorist organisation" under the US guidelines, but had Israel had never stolen the Palestinian land, Hammas and half of the rest of the terrorist organisations would never have gotten off the ground, and those that did would have been fighting among themselves.

Yea, Japan had a pretty good plan there didn't they? You need to study history a little more, Japans attack on Pearl Harbour was a military action. Japan felt disgraced after the attack because their declareation of war was NOT deleivered before the attack began. japan had a habbit of informing people they were about to attack that they were going to attack them, Hamas doesn't even give Iseral the courtasy of a middle finger before they start launching rockets.

Israel got out of gaza, yea they got world approval for it too, goodie for them, but they only stayed out until they'd had enough of having rockets fires at them.

And no the terrorist org's would still be trying to kill Israel, just like every muslim country over there they want Israel gone, look at the nutcase in Iran, he said the Holocaust never happened, and that Israel needs to be wiped off the face of the earth, can you please tell me when the last time Israel went into Iran was, I don't seem to remember. Oh and as for that idiot president in Iran I can tell you the Holocaust DID happen, my Grandfather was a good little Nazi, he told me how many people the Nazi party stuffed in ovens. My grandfather wasn't jewish either, he was a good little German following blindly what his political party said was fact.

 

[Partisan]

I agree that this is a really grim situation, which must be resolved. The problem is the debate will not move forward until we can get past the "he did it first, no he did" stage. When my 2 boys start that I smack their heads together and make them sit down and apologise to each other - it doesn't always stop them kicking off again, but it cools the situation for a bit.

So how should the Israel / Palestine situation be resolved? There have been reams of paper signed in accords and agreements, which haven't lasted - so what needs to be done? I'm quite happy to fly over and bang the collective heads of state together, but is that really going to be a long term solution?

 

[MontyB]

I agree that this is a really grim situation, which must be resolved. The problem is the debate will not move forward until we can get past the "he did it first, no he did" stage. When my 2 boys start that I smack their heads together and make them sit down and apologise to each other - it doesn't always stop them kicking off again, but it cools the situation for a bit.

So how should the Israel / Palestine situation be resolved? There have been reams of paper signed in accords and agreements, which haven't lasted - so what needs to be done? I'm quite happy to fly over and bang the collective heads of state together, but is that really going to be a long term solution?

Personally nothing short of kicking a really large nuke out the back as you fly over will solve the middle eastern problem. It cannot be solved until ALL parties reach a point where they have no other option but negotiate or perish as it is quite clear that currently neither side is negotiating in good faith.

 

[senojekips]

I do not require translation for CNN, i speak english(well, more or less ) . You need to understand that many times translations are very far from the actual words being said.

But the meaning is usually still there. In fact, often it is made clearer by good translation especially where idiom is used.

No, i see nothing pointlees about dieing for my country.

We were always taught that it is better to make your enemy die for his country that to die for your own.

You can be a very patriotic terrorist, but you still are a terrorist.

So by that you feel that the French Marquis in WWII were terrorists?

Im not going to re-explain my entire view on the self-hatin european politics of the lat 60 years. either way, if israel actually used our stock film of terror attacks you would be mortified, but we dont, because its against our religion and our moral. we dont use dead bodies to make political profit.

Well, our news agencies are perhaps not quite so moral, we see them, but we also know why it is happening. We don't agree with it, but it is understandable.

I was once told by a Sydney underworld figure. That he was never afraid of the other "big men" who were trying to kill him, the man he feared most was the frightened punk who will kill you out of fear for no real reason other than fear, the kid next door with a home made zip gun. You are fighting just such an enemy, and he is much more liable to do something stupid than any larger and more powerful enemy. This is the enemy that will take you down at any opportunity and he will use any method available even if it means he will die in the attempt.

I agree comletely, and ive said it before, the settelments must go. But first, we must make sure the other side can actually take ownership of the ground(see Sinai) and that we are not handing it over to anarhy and terrorists(see Gaza, Lebanon)

What actually happens to the land is not really your concern , neither is it mine. The cause of the antagonism will then be redirected against the new opressor and not yourself. The only reason they put up with parties like Hamas is because they will fight the "enemy of the people" let them fight among themselves. It's the old "The Enemy of my enemy is my friend" scenario.

Indeed, the entire middle east is made of make believe countries. The Palestinians will have their own country, on the west bank and Gaza, but it will take longer than it has to because right now they dont even have one leadership.

There is a perfectly good reason for that, and it will solve itself without causing Israel any grief if the palestinians get a fair agreement. I'm not going to go on with this as it is leading back to Israel's "right" to be in the area in the first place.

The fact is that Israel wil not and can not give them what is theirs, so nothing will ever come of it.

 

[senojekips]

Yea, Japan had a pretty good plan there didn't they? You need to study history a little more, Japans attack on Pearl Harbour was a military action. Japan felt disgraced after the attack because their declareation of war was NOT deleivered before the attack began.

Where is your source for this? The fact is, that it was meant to be delivered only minutes before the attack actually hit Pearl Harbour. Which would not have saved a single life, as communications would have delayed it's receipyt in Pearl until after the attack was well under way.

japan had a habbit of informing people they were about to attack that they were going to attack them, Hamas doesn't even give Iseral the courtasy of a middle finger before they start launching rockets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_declaration_of_war_on_the_United_States_and_Britain
I think you'll find that your understanding of Japan's position is incorrect.

Israel got out of gaza, yea they got world approval for it too, goodie for them, but they only stayed out until they'd had enough of having rockets fires at them.

the palestinians virtually starved for four months before sending Israel a rocket propelled reminder notice that they had refused to abide by the ceasefire agreement and open the borders. Israel was also using patrol boats to harrass any vessels that tried to fish or go and get supplies.

Israeli Harrassment

And no the terrorist org's would still be trying to kill Israel, just like every muslim country over there they want Israel gone, look at the nutcase in Iran, he said the Holocaust never happened,

There are probably more Holocaust deniers in the USA per head of population than Iran. Take a minute to Google around and find where all of these 'nut jobs' actually live before you go pointing too many fingers.

and that Israel needs to be wiped off the face of the earth, can you please tell me when the last time Israel went into Iran was, I don't seem to remember. Oh and as for that idiot president in Iran I can tell you the Holocaust DID happen, my Grandfather was a good little Nazi, he told me how many people the Nazi party stuffed in ovens. My grandfather wasn't jewish either, he was a good little German following blindly what his political party said was fact.

Where does this come into the debate?

I know the holocaust happened, I lost a number of very distant relatives at Sobibor, Treblinka and Birkenau.

 

[BritinBritain]

I wish to point out the following article:-

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Palestine/6TH.htm

 

[SHERMAN]

this is tireing

 

[senojekips]

Only Israel holds the key to stopping it, and I have no doubt that it will only get worse as time goes on.

 

[SHERMAN]

i meant the thread, actually.

 

[senojekips]

Sadly, the thread is only a reflection of the subject at hand.

In all honesty, I think you will find that the rest of the world, (other than Israel and the US) has been heartily sick of it for at least 20 years, and if it were not for Jewish political support in the US even they would have never got involved.

But it's all too late now, you are going to have to see it out to the sticky end. I certainly do not envy you as none of the real viable options will be pleasant.

 

[wolfen]

Where is your source for this? The fact is, that it was meant to be delivered only minutes before the attack actually hit Pearl Harbour. Which would not have saved a single life, as communications would have delayed it's receipyt in Pearl until after the attack was well under way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_declaration_of_war_on_the_United_States_and_Britain
I think you'll find that your understanding of Japan's position is incorrect.

the palestinians virtually starved for four months before sending Israel a rocket propelled reminder notice that they had refused to abide by the ceasefire agreement and open the borders. Israel was also using patrol boats to harrass any vessels that tried to fish or go and get supplies.

Israeli Harrassment

There are probably more Holocaust deniers in the USA per head of population than Iran. Take a minute to Google around and find where all of these 'nut jobs' actually live before you go pointing too many fingers.

Where does this come into the debate?

I know the holocaust happened, I lost a number of very distant relatives at Sobibor, Treblinka and Birkenau.

My source is the record of the men waiting outside the office that morning in a picture, one hour before the attack, i have the pic in the bottom of an old trunk my dad handed down to me. right next to the picture of the U.S.S Ward with that mini sub hauled up out of the water. history has a habit of changeing whenever sombody thinks a part should be left out or added in. Any thing on teh news and in school books may or may not be correct.

Wikipeda? please don't lower your standards and start useing an open source, you might as well post a youtube video as to link me to wikipedia.

Yea we have Holocaust deniers here in teh US, we tend to call them skinheads and neo nazi's, every now and then the cops round up a few of them, but in general I call them firggin idiots. I point fingers at the idiot in Iran cause he wan't a nuke to drop on people, hello, a dam nuke? Anybody like him has the brain mass the same as a dog tick, and really needs to be shot in the head.
As far as palestinians virtually starveing, I lay that blame on the United Nations for placeing Iseral in that dam sandbox in the first place, I think they realy could have chosen a much better location than surrounded by muslims.
In the video I can't deny that the might have been in the wrong, but also i can confirm that that sort of thing happens all the time in every country. but would any *****, moan and complain if it was a Palistine patrol boat denying aid to Iseral?

 

[Partisan]

As far as palestinians virtually starveing, I lay that blame on the United Nations for placeing Iseral in that dam sandbox in the first place, I think they realy could have chosen a much better location than surrounded by muslims.

So where else would the Jewish people liked to have settled? As far as I'm aware there was only 1 place - Palestine.

As a side note I'm sorry to hear that you don't like Wikipedia, it is another information source and surprisingly accurate when you take the time to back check. The Israel / Palestine issue is deeply rooted, you might find some interesting nuggets when you check it out on Wikipedia!!

 

[perseus]

So where else would the Jewish people liked to have settled? As far as I'm aware there was only 1 place - Palestine.

Yes, indeed the location is deep rooted in their religion and culture, otherwise we would pay them, and their new host a fortune to FO to some other scrubland.

In fact I've often wondered if the cost to the world of these disputes could be rerouted to buying the various factions off NOT to fight. Sets a bad example though.

You're right though Wolfen, it was the UNs fault in letting such a large flow of immigrants with a chip on their shoulder into Palestine in the first place. Placing a lot of people who have been bullied together, makes them the biggest bullies of all.

 

[senojekips]

My source is the record of the men waiting outside the office that morning in a picture, one hour before the attack, i have the pic in the bottom of an old trunk my dad handed down to me. right next to the picture of the U.S.S Ward with that mini sub hauled up out of the water. history has a habit of changeing whenever sombody thinks a part should be left out or added in. Any thing on teh news and in school books may or may not be correct.

Well, as far as all the literature I have read is concerned, the Japanese were no too fussed by the non delivery of their declaration of war, and every piece of material I have read seems to support that argument.

Wikipeda? please don't lower your standards and start useing an open source, you might as well post a youtube video as to link me to wikipedia.

Both wikipaedia and youtube have their place. Wikipaedia is mainly only decried by those who have never used it, or have ever taken the time to cross checked it's information. Much of iwhiich is from other acclaimed literature anyway. Supposition and imaginative pieces placed in Wiki usually attract a "Sources Please" anotation within hours . Youtube is often very unsophisticated, but shows raw footage of the action as it happens without the benefit of Hollywood style scriptwriters and it is generally not selectively edited. Being a wikipaedia "snob" does little for your credibility.

Yea we have Holocaust deniers here in teh US, we tend to call them skinheads and neo nazi's, every now and then the cops round up a few of them, but in general I call them firggin idiots. I point fingers at the idiot in Iran cause he wan't a nuke to drop on people, hello, a dam nuke? Anybody like him has the brain mass the same as a dog tick, and really needs to be shot in the head.
As far as palestinians virtually starveing, I lay that blame on the United Nations for placeing Iseral in that dam sandbox in the first place, I think they realy could have chosen a much better location than surrounded by muslims.

Israel has always wanted and claimed it's present location as "given by god" but that is no reason why they should have deliberately denied the Palestinians in Gaza the right to fish or use boats to get humanitarian aid, bearing in mind that they had all of the border crossings closed. It was a deliberate and pre planned tactic to starve them into submission, their answer being to deliver a few "rocket propelled reminders" that Israel was not up holding their end of the ceasefire agreement.

They claim it was to stop the Palestinians smuggling weapons. If this is so, why did they not allow food and merely search the vessels for weapons,... if they were able to ram them, they could just as easily searched the vessels and let them go on. The truth is plain to see.

In the video I can't deny that the might have been in the wrong, but also i can confirm that that sort of thing happens all the time in every country.

What other countries are being starved and having any attempts to get food intercepted by the military? The only possible one I can think of is Chechnya, but I do not know the details, and i don't have much faith in receiving a hearing from the Russkies.

but would any *****, moan and complain if it was a Palistine patrol boat denying aid to Iseral?

If the Israelis were being starved, and stood over, Yes,... they would.

 

[AB_Shorts_Momma]

My point is the world does not give a :cen: about terrorists and governments who directly target civilians, which is in violation of international law. The UN, my favorite organization, is very quick to condemn Israel at every moment while being silent over the attacks I just listed. When Israel had enough, takes the fight to the enemy and kills civilians who are near by, the world goes berzerk.

I am sick of Israel getting all the criticism while the terrorists get a free ride.

I second that one!

 

[senojekips]

I second that one!

So you think that having your land stolen and then the occupiers committing a slow genocide upon your people is a free ride?

I'm glad that you are not in a position of power.

 

[AB_Shorts_Momma]

I'm sick of only half of the story being told by the media... I'm sick of hearing how the poor poor people of ______ need help, but when someone steps in, they are awful... I'm sick of how you never hear about the atrocities that happen towards Israel, but you hear about how Israel strikes back.... I could continue...

 

[sky2979]

I'm sick of only half of the story being told by the media... I'm sick of hearing how the poor poor people of ______ need help, but when someone steps in, they are awful... I'm sick of how you never hear about the atrocities that happen towards Israel, but you hear about how Israel strikes back.... I could continue...

I agree.Enough said.