Well if it happened here in the US, Yea I'd bwe mad as hell about it, but since I'm not teh guy who decides who lives where theres not a hell of a lot I can do about it, but I dam sure would NOT bomb the land I claim to have a god givemn right to live on cause you live there instead of me. Maybe its just me, but I'd try to live peacefuly with them, I have WAY more important things to do than worry about where the next missle is coming from.
The world only protests when Israel Strikes
Well if it happened here in the US, Yea I'd bwe mad as hell about it, but since I'm not teh guy who decides who lives where theres not a hell of a lot I can do about it, but I dam sure would NOT bomb the land I claim to have a god givemn right to live on cause you live there instead of me. Maybe its just me, but I'd try to live peacefuly with them, I have WAY more important things to do than worry about where the next missle is coming from.
senojekips
Active member
Yeah, well I guees the palestinians are mad about it too, and there are probably many of them who like yourself just accept it and get on with their lives, but they are not everybody. Just as in the US where you would have "patriots" who would fight for what is right you have the same in Gaza etc.
You must also remember that you have, as you put it, "WAY more important things to do than worry about where the next missle is coming from", only because you are free to have other interests, the Palestinians are being beaten, starved bombed and otherwise treated as a resource, they only wish they had more important things to do.
Oh, and regarding your choice above. The Palestinians "never got a choice", that one of the things that they are angry about.
I have to agree.
I don't like seeing anyone get killed in uniform let alone civilians especially children and the elderly. The main criticism of Israel in the Gaza attack from Western media and commentators seems to be the "indiscriminate" bombing by the IDF and maybe some of this criticism is warranted - Israel is one Force that will wack back with a bigger stick - however Hamas' rocketing of Israeli suburbs has been even more indiscriminate and in fact only ever hits civilian homes and families. But you have to go to little known blogs to get the story on Hamas's breach of international norms of armed conflict because its not covered by mainstream media. Furthermore where were the street and banner protests by Gazans, and decries of inhumanity when Israeli families and children were being rocketed by Hamas over the last eight months?
Gazans and Hamas are reaping what they have sown and I only hope the IDF do the job properly this time. Hamas deserves to be destroyed after which, let the peae-talks continue with the slightly more reasonable Palasinian Authority and President Abbas.
senojekips
Active member
Here's the report of a Norwegian doctor in Gaza.
As these camera phones become more common, we are goimg to start seeing a side of this conflict that has never been seen before due to Israeli censorship. Only tonight on the news there was a video showing Israeli troops preventing camera crews from recording what is going on. No they weren't targeting Israeli troops and equipment, but just looking across the desert towards the smoke and explosions in Gaza.
Yep,... its easy to spot the International press with their big cameras and sound crew, but now there's always the chance of some person catching this behaviour on their phone.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=376_1231214687
Obviously this is really a Hamas terrorist's point of view being made to look like a Norwegian doctor.
Tsk, tsk,.. I don't know.
As these camera phones become more common, we are goimg to start seeing a side of this conflict that has never been seen before due to Israeli censorship. Only tonight on the news there was a video showing Israeli troops preventing camera crews from recording what is going on. No they weren't targeting Israeli troops and equipment, but just looking across the desert towards the smoke and explosions in Gaza.
Yep,... its easy to spot the International press with their big cameras and sound crew, but now there's always the chance of some person catching this behaviour on their phone.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=376_1231214687
Obviously this is really a Hamas terrorist's point of view being made to look like a Norwegian doctor.
Tsk, tsk,.. I don't know.
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Just a little history of my family, My peope were ruled by muslims until Vald Tepes rose an army and freed us. in 1942 my grandfather was given a choice since he didn't join the nazi party, the choices were Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe, Kriegsmarine, or Auschwitz with the jews, so I have a pretty good idea of not haveing any choice.
All my time in teh US military I did my best to keep this country I live in free so people can have other choices.
The peopel in Gaza aren't patriots, they are terrorists, they don't want peace, a patriot wants peace.
And what I meant about haveing way more important things to worry aboput is this. if they want war they need to keep it over there, if they start that crap here I really hope Obama would drop a small nuke on em and kills every one of them.
hate me for saying that if you want to but as I've said before theres no love lost between me and them, never has been never will be
if teh whole dam world would just try to play nice we wouldn't have thease problems in the first place, but then nobody in teh middle east ever wants to play nice do they?
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Well this was odd but it made the papers and it isn't often I can find anything good to say about the Catholic church...
Priest unrepentant over bloody Gaza protest
A Catholic priest who splattered a mixture of his blood and paint on an Israeli memorial plaque during a protest yesterday said it was a symbolic act and nothing compared to the killing taking place in Gaza.
About 1000 people marched through central Wellington protesting against Israel's air and ground offensive in Gaza and calling on the New Zealand Government to end its neutral stance.
Father Gerard Burns, the parish priest of Te Parisi o te Ngakau Tapu in Porirua, was one of the protest leaders and smeared the blood and paint on the Yitzhak Rabin peace memorial.
Mr Rabin was prime minister of Israel from 1974-1977 and again from 1992-1995. He won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994 and was assassinated by a right-wing Israeli radical in 1995.
Kiwi Friends of Israel called for Father Burns to apologise for his actions.
"Kiwi Friends of Israel strongly supports the right of all New Zealanders to have a robust debate on the rights and wrongs of Israel's policies but attacking peace memorials isn't legitimate behaviour.
"The desecration is doubly contemptible given Mr Rabin's lifelong commitment to peace and stability in Israel and Palestine."
Father Burns does not agree Mr Rabin's commitment to peace was "lifelong", but rather he "converted" to peace later in life.
The paint was a "symbolic action" and a "denunciation of the (Israeli) state, not an attack on the Jewish faith.
"I have a great esteem for the Jewish faith. I mean the founder of Christianity was Jewish ... but, the Israeli state is another beast altogether."
The prophets of Judaism would be criticising Israel's actions, Father Burns said.
An Israeli flag was also burnt at the protest.
There was no comparison between the burning of a flag, or painting of a monument and the killing taking place in Gaza, he said.
As for the New Zealand Government's response, Father Burns believes "not taking a side is taking a side. It's to say you accept what's going on".
He said despite being a small country New Zealand had shown in the past, with opposition to South African rugby tours (during the apartheid era), banning of cluster bombs and anti-nuclear stance, that it could spark global change.
Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully said earlier the Government was not prepared to choose sides.
He said the Government's stance was in line with the international community, including the United Nations and European Union.
Father Burns did not find it strange that a New Zealand Catholic priest should take a stand against an Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
"One of the people that I am very keen to support is the Christian Palestinians. It's not just Jews against Muslims. It's a political war with some religious implications.
"Denouncing injustice is a priestly role ... I might be failing in my duty if I didn't do it."
Catholic Church spokeswoman Lyndsay Freer told The New Zealand Herald priests were entitled to their individual views.
The New Zealand church's stance echoed Pope Benedict's address last week.
"We feel that in the interests of peace and dignity dialogue must take place, and the killing must stop, from both sides."
New Zealand's Tertiary Education Union (TEU) today called on the Israeli and Palestinian governments to "respect the peaceful role that education institutions play in communities" and keep war out of Palestine's schools and tertiary education institutions.
Their call follows the bombing of a Gaza school yesterday that killed over 40 people.
- NZPA
http://www.stuff.co.nz/print/4811750a11.html
Priest unrepentant over bloody Gaza protest
A Catholic priest who splattered a mixture of his blood and paint on an Israeli memorial plaque during a protest yesterday said it was a symbolic act and nothing compared to the killing taking place in Gaza.
About 1000 people marched through central Wellington protesting against Israel's air and ground offensive in Gaza and calling on the New Zealand Government to end its neutral stance.
Father Gerard Burns, the parish priest of Te Parisi o te Ngakau Tapu in Porirua, was one of the protest leaders and smeared the blood and paint on the Yitzhak Rabin peace memorial.
Mr Rabin was prime minister of Israel from 1974-1977 and again from 1992-1995. He won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994 and was assassinated by a right-wing Israeli radical in 1995.
Kiwi Friends of Israel called for Father Burns to apologise for his actions.
"Kiwi Friends of Israel strongly supports the right of all New Zealanders to have a robust debate on the rights and wrongs of Israel's policies but attacking peace memorials isn't legitimate behaviour.
"The desecration is doubly contemptible given Mr Rabin's lifelong commitment to peace and stability in Israel and Palestine."
Father Burns does not agree Mr Rabin's commitment to peace was "lifelong", but rather he "converted" to peace later in life.
The paint was a "symbolic action" and a "denunciation of the (Israeli) state, not an attack on the Jewish faith.
"I have a great esteem for the Jewish faith. I mean the founder of Christianity was Jewish ... but, the Israeli state is another beast altogether."
The prophets of Judaism would be criticising Israel's actions, Father Burns said.
An Israeli flag was also burnt at the protest.
There was no comparison between the burning of a flag, or painting of a monument and the killing taking place in Gaza, he said.
As for the New Zealand Government's response, Father Burns believes "not taking a side is taking a side. It's to say you accept what's going on".
He said despite being a small country New Zealand had shown in the past, with opposition to South African rugby tours (during the apartheid era), banning of cluster bombs and anti-nuclear stance, that it could spark global change.
Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully said earlier the Government was not prepared to choose sides.
He said the Government's stance was in line with the international community, including the United Nations and European Union.
Father Burns did not find it strange that a New Zealand Catholic priest should take a stand against an Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
"One of the people that I am very keen to support is the Christian Palestinians. It's not just Jews against Muslims. It's a political war with some religious implications.
"Denouncing injustice is a priestly role ... I might be failing in my duty if I didn't do it."
Catholic Church spokeswoman Lyndsay Freer told The New Zealand Herald priests were entitled to their individual views.
The New Zealand church's stance echoed Pope Benedict's address last week.
"We feel that in the interests of peace and dignity dialogue must take place, and the killing must stop, from both sides."
New Zealand's Tertiary Education Union (TEU) today called on the Israeli and Palestinian governments to "respect the peaceful role that education institutions play in communities" and keep war out of Palestine's schools and tertiary education institutions.
Their call follows the bombing of a Gaza school yesterday that killed over 40 people.
- NZPA
http://www.stuff.co.nz/print/4811750a11.html
I see that you accept the figures presented by the bias, but completely ignore the facts established regarding them by the link, which is carefully informative. But of course, in your book any case put forward in contention with yours is dismissed out of hand by such vilification. And 'hmmm' - this link was seized upon and posted not by me, but by an opposing argument; the fact that it provides full explanation is an embarrassment for you, I understand , I mean your lack of comprehension - 'reading them backwards.'
You have a penchant for comparing Israel with the Nazis; this is a disgusting and complete nonsense and a cliche beloved by certain nasty interests. Furthermore, I must point out that, in fact, you cannot claim to speak for the world .
I find it necessary to ask you an important question which I believe encapsulates all your personal opinions on this subject :-
'Do you support the call for the annihilation of the State of Israel?'
This is certainly NOT a rhetorical question and requires an answer.
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senojekips
Active member
NO! Now, this is not a rhetorical question either, I want you to show me where I have ever said that. My point all along has focussed on the fact that Israel should never have been given to the Jews as a "homeland" in the first place, for reasons that have been repeated in this thread, ad infinitum. Read the posts, Read the posts,... before you go rabbiting off on one of your magical mystery tours.
Why do you insist on telling me what I think, it is quite obvious that you carefully misinterpret or "screw" what others say in an attempt to justify your own views. You have recently been chipped for this unfounded behaviour and I thought that you may have learned from the experience.
No I'm not embarrassed by anything I've said, but I never cease to be amazed at your compete inability to read a post and understand it's meaning, even when stated in the simplest of terms.
Of course I compare Israel, and particularly the Zionists, with the Nazis, one would have to be totally ignorant of the facts and have no idea of world events to think otherwise.
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senojekips
Active member
That is pure supposition, and without a single shred of evidence to support it. You have no idea who they are or what they fight for. I suppose the French resistance were also not patriots for the same reason.
You are letting your emotion over rule common sense. They fight for what is theirs, but possibly, as in all groups many within the organisation have ulterior motives. It still comes back to "what if this was in America and another group were just given the best part of your country"? Would you fight?
The Other Guy
Spam King
Vlad Tepes was a terrorist to the Turks, but a savior to you.
Gavrilo Princip was a terrorist to the Austrians, but a savior to the Serbians.
American Revolutionaries were terrorists to the British, but saviors to the Colonists.
Things work both ways. Patriots are terrorists, to their enemies.
perseus
Active member
I'm not normally supportive of British colonial policies, but to be fair the US put an enormous pressure on the UK to accept incoming Jewish refugees into Israel and the UK did everything they could to keep them out and maintain some sort of law and order between the various factions. So perhaps Truman has a lot to answer for, merely exporting Europe's troubles to the middle East.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/truman111345.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/truman111345.html
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mmarsh
Active member
No disagreement on that, but Israel has made some mistakes of its own, like its refusal to accept the fact that military intervention alone will not deter terrorists.
I was listening to some IDF spokesman say that they were going to continue until Hamas was destroyed, which was exactly the same thing that was said about Hezbollah in 2006 and against PLO/Arafat in the 1990s.
We know what happened in both those instances, not only did they fail but the intended target emerged stronger than ever. I bet anyone a case of beer that when the dust settles, Hamas will still be around, still capable of launching attacks, and will be stronger than it was before. My reason is simple: all Hamas has to do to claim victory is to survive.
What Israel needs to do is the one thing they hav been unwilling to do (with the exception of Ehud Barak attempt in the late 1990s). That is sit down with Fatah and negiociate and end to the occupation of the West Bank. Which means returning most, if not most of the territory seized in 1967. If Hamas refuses to take part then they will be excluded. If they attempt violence then Isreal or the USA should arm Fatah to crackdown on Hamas.
And remember, Fatah hates Hamas even more than Isreal does.
senojekips
Active member
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=03b_1231271989
I'll just leave it at that. I've said most of this elsewhere
I'll just leave it at that. I've said most of this elsewhere
Funny, I did a Google search and can't find the nutty reverend smearing blood on any Arab/Muslim symbols or protesting in any fashion when Palestinian suicide bombers were blowing up school kids (of all creeds) on Jerusalem buses?
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
So he wants attention. Big deal.
This was in answer to my simple question 'do you support the call for the annihilation of the State of Israel?'
Although I got the full bluster package with it, at least you did answer the question. Thank you.
(I am prepared to provide evidence of anything I say, please understand. Your view of the Nazi experience is obviously non-existent or incomprehensible. But I will not go there at the moment.)
My question had more important fish to fry than your prejudices, I am attempting to be constructive.
I take your last post to have confirmed that you do NOT, in fact, support the call for the annihilation of Israel.
Therefore, do you support the call for PEACE? A permanent negotiated peace?
This is NOT a rhetorical question; it requires an answer.
BTW - why on earth do you jump to the conclusion that I have been 'chipped' for any reason. I am simply polite enough to respond to polite general requests with polite re-assurance, publicly at that; everything above board and out in the open , I say. And after all, there is more than one way of skinning a cat.
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MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I think if you read the report again you will find the answer to your observation.
Are we going to repeat the entire thread because you can't draw a conclusion from the data already presented?
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