How do we deal with Pirate attacks?

And like we said, Ethiopia isn't crazy about having a fundamentalist Islamic influence on its border and quite frankly the rest of the world has had enough of that as well. In the end, it seems that declaring war on the rest of us is universal with fundamentalist Islamic groups. Their way of life goes against many of the basic wills of the human being and sees our way of life as a threat to their ideology, which is oppressive and backward. No, I am not a big fan of cultural relativisim, which I think is intellectual cowardice.
Why do you think people want to pack up and go to the West when they can? It's not necessarily the money or the power. It's the freedom. Your value is what you make yourself.
KJ is still in the military so yeah, that's the sort of communication that is used. Why? Because if you sugar coat stuff, your people can die as a result. Me, I tone things down to accomodate you really. After all, it's a forum and whether or not I agree with you or not I'm actually interested in hearing what it is you have to say because it's not something I hear every day.
The sad thing is, no one has to say bad things about Africa. Africans tend to do a great job of spreading insult to themselves throughout the world as it is. We gave you your countries and your leaders have done nothing but plunder, impoverish and exploit your own people. What a tragedy.
 
Nuking Somalia? That's a little extreme.

But there's nothing wrong with killing pirates and other such pests in their homes... in Somalia. Go wild on them. You'd be doing the world (including Somalia) a favor. Of course, no one actually cares enough to bother with Africa, which is sad in its own way. Especially while they're passing off "spreading democracy" as a good reason for the invasion of Iraq.
 
major liability said:
But there's nothing wrong with killing pirates and other such pests in their homes... in Somalia. Go wild on them. You'd be doing the world (including Somalia) a favor. Of course, no one actually cares enough to bother with Africa, which is sad in its own way. Especially while they're passing off "spreading democracy" as a good reason for the invasion of Iraq.
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What's sad is that in the case of Somalia the United Nations has tried twice to help and twice had to leave the country because of the inherent lawlessness and clan fighting. Not once but twice.

Read today that the Somali's now want the UN and other entities to foot the bill for a Coast Guard. They even "guarantee" that they can "wipe out piracy in the Gulf of Aden" if they just get this coast guard up and running.

Here's my problem. You don't even have control of your country yet you want others to give you armed coastal craft. What happens when the pirates or rival clan takes them from you or God forbid the Coast Guard figures there is better money in Piracy.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if some Coast Guard captains join in with the pirating. Actually that's a bit extreme, but certainly they can and probably will strike deals with pirates, perhaps even using radar to guide pirates to their targets so that they have a chance of getting a cut of the profits.
It's not something that's too hard to imagine. This sort of symbiotic relationship between "hunter" and "target" exists.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
And like we said, Ethiopia isn't crazy about having a fundamentalist Islamic influence on its border and quite frankly the rest of the world has had enough of that as well. In the end, it seems that declaring war on the rest of us is universal with fundamentalist Islamic groups. Their way of life goes against many of the basic wills of the human being and sees our way of life as a threat to their ideology, which is oppressive and backward. No, I am not a big fan of cultural relativisim, which I think is intellectual cowardice.
Why do you think people want to pack up and go to the West when they can? It's not necessarily the money or the power. It's the freedom. Your value is what you make yourself.
KJ is still in the military so yeah, that's the sort of communication that is used. Why? Because if you sugar coat stuff, your people can die as a result. Me, I tone things down to accomodate you really. After all, it's a forum and whether or not I agree with you or not I'm actually interested in hearing what it is you have to say because it's not something I hear every day.
The sad thing is, no one has to say bad things about Africa. Africans tend to do a great job of spreading insult to themselves throughout the world as it is. We gave you your countries and your leaders have done nothing but plunder, impoverish and exploit your own people. What a tragedy.
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It is due to the American and Ethiopians that these pirates and warlords came back, you have made you bed now lay in it. These complaints about pirates really don't make sense when you allies the American and Ethiopians are the cause of why they are back in business. First of all Somalia never attacked any western nation, their was never a Somali terrorist that blew up western targets, the Somalis are not like the Taliban or the likes. The UIC was focused internally and even had relations with the EU, Arab league, African Union, the UN, they had meetings with European delegations, they wanted to also establish similar relations with America its just that the George Bush regime wanted to wage war at anything that sounded Islamic.
 
Really? What was it about that time Somalia invaded Ethiopia?
Like I said, the Union of Islamic Courts may not have had any serious connections with Al Qaeda and the like. But like the name suggests, it's a union of various factions. Once the country is stabilized and there's no one left to fight, they will probably end up either fighting each other or finding someone outside to pick a fight with. On top of that, add the fervor of fundamentalist religion.
We'd rather deal with pirates than deal with something like that.
Relations with the UN means nothing. Even Kim Jong-il has relations with the UN.

Actually looking at the text that you've quoted and what you've written, I don't see much of a link.
Also we're not lying in any bed we "made" in Somalia. Your people are. For most of our folks it just adds to their operational experience.
 
UnitedSomalia said:
It is due to the American and Ethiopians that these pirates and warlords came back, you have made you bed now lay in it. These complaints about pirates really don't make sense when you allies the American and Ethiopians are the cause of why they are back in business. First of all Somalia never attacked any western nation, their was never a Somali terrorist that blew up western targets, the Somalis are not like the Taliban or the likes. The UIC was focused internally and even had relations with the EU, Arab league, African Union, the UN, they had meetings with European delegations, they wanted to also establish similar relations with America its just that the George Bush regime wanted to wage war at anything that sounded Islamic.
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Ok to cut a long story short Somalia for better or worse is now a basket case and there appears to be no cure in sight it is unrealistic to expect the west to foot the bill especially after the last two attempts to help were met with gun fire and rioting masses.

Maybe the UIC was the answer I certainly have heard nothing negative about them but they have been booted out now anyway.

Now oddly enough I can't say I care a whole bunch about Somalia because:
A) New Zealand has its own problems to deal with.
B) I firmly believe that the people get the leadership they deserve and if the people of the country (any country) are to apathetic or disinterested to sort their own mess out then I am not going to do it for them.

BUT the piracy thing needs to be stopped at any cost and by any means necessary and if that means sinking any ship entering an exclusion zone around other ships without the express permission of the ships captain then so be it.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
Really? What was it about that time Somalia invaded Ethiopia?
Like I said, the Union of Islamic Courts may not have had any serious connections with Al Qaeda and the like. But like the name suggests, it's a union of various factions. Once the country is stabilized and there's no one left to fight, they will probably end up either fighting each other or finding someone outside to pick a fight with. On top of that, add the fervor of fundamentalist religion.
We'd rather deal with pirates than deal with something like that.
Relations with the UN means nothing. Even Kim Jong-il has relations with the UN.

Actually looking at the text that you've quoted and what you've written, I don't see much of a link.
Also we're not lying in any bed we "made" in Somalia. Your people are. For most of our folks it just adds to their operational experience.
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If you look at what I said "First of all Somalia never attacked any western nation, their was never a Somali terrorist that blew up western targets, the Somalis are not like the Taliban or the likes." I didn't know Ethiopia qualifies as Western nation, and the whole Somali-Ethiopian conflict has been around for long time as far back as anyone can think, they have been invading each other back and forth throughout history it is not something new which is why Ethiopia jumped at the chance to take another stab at Somalia when the opportunity presented itself recently not because they had anything to worry from the UIC. You have to understand Ethiopia had other motives and they choose to go about their agenda under the cover of the American green light and support.

Its easier to deal with the pirates right? Well good luck then we will see how well you do. Your European partners, the Arab league and the African league was ready to recognize the UIC and had relations with the UIC not just the UN, George Bush had other intentions and as well all know his gun-ho style went about doing what he does best which was creating wars. The UIC was never a threat that warranted an invasion, and the UIC knew better than to antagonize the West they knew that the west can overthrow them if they committed any aggression against the West, so unlike the pirates at least they were willing to play ball.
 
UnitedSomalia said:
Its easier to deal with the pirates right? Well good luck then we will see how well you do. Your European partners, the Arab league and the African league was ready to recognize the UIC and had relations with the UIC not just the UN, George Bush had other intentions and as well all know his gun-ho style went about doing what he does best which was creating wars. The UIC was never a threat that warranted an invasion, and the UIC knew better than to antagonize the West they knew that the west can overthrow them if they committed any aggression against the West, so unlike the pirates at least they were willing to play ball.
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You haven´t debated me, because you can´t rebuke a single fact I have posted.

As for the UIC.
The neighbouring countries couldn´t accept an extremist religious faction to take control.
Simple as that.

Dealing with pirates might get ugly at some point, but not as ugly as letting another fanatic religious faction get a hold of another country.
 
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KJ said:
As for the UIC.
The neighbouring countries couldn´t accept an extremist religious faction to take control.
Simple as that.

Dealing with pirates might get ugly at some point, but not as ugly as letting another fanatic religious faction get a hold of another country.
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This is basically what I've said and the only part of my argument that UnitedSomalia isn't touching. He's trying to drag the discussion into tangents that don't mean a whole lot but yes, this is an important reason as to why UIC was not accepted.
And like I said, after the UIC has stabilized Somalia, then what?
 
UnitedSomalia said:
Im done debating with KJ and Del boy.
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What you mean is that you frightened to engage with me because you are only interested in spouting your propaganda.

You have made wild accusations which you cannot back up when challenged. That is not debate. If you are a representative of your country then it is no wonder that Somalia is in such a mess.

Now please allow me to say that I have your measure. I am now done with you.
 
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UnitedSomalia said:
Still c/Commander regardless if he is in the military or not it does not excuse what he said, I don't think you would excuse him if he said that about another country or even your country and I believe you would want him reprimanded. Their are certain lines that should not be crossed and he crossed that line.
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My father told me, and I tell you, lets see whether it helps:

"Do not respond to what others *say* but to what they *meant* to say..."

You are lacking in this department.

Rattler
 
I think NATO frigates or battleships in the region should be more organized because every country behaves like they are there to protect their own trade ships. One of our frigate named TCG Giresun is there on duty. It shouldn't be so hard to find pirates and root out them.
 
UnitedSomalia said:
. Therefore, its nothing like the Taliban, it is a popular group raised by the Somali people themselves.
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So was the Nazi party. The National Socialist German Workers' Party or in German"Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" which was shortened to Nazi, it was a political affiliate group. Just because the people back the group, and the group says it will do good things for the people doesn't mean the group is a gift from the Almighty. It's politics, you say what you need to to get in power, regardless of your true ambitions.
 
FO Seaman said:
So was the Nazi party. The National Socialist German Workers' Party or in German"Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" which was shortened to Nazi, it was a political affiliate group. Just because the people back the group, and the group says it will do good things for the people doesn't mean the group is a gift from the Almighty. It's politics, you say what you need to to get in power, regardless of your true ambitions.
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That definition would apply to most political movements regardless of ambition though, in other words it isn't difficult to paint anyone as Hitler (or the Nazi's) if you use a wide enough brush.
 
oRTouCH said:
I think NATO frigates or battleships in the region should be more organized because every country behaves like they are there to protect their own trade ships. One of our frigate named TCG Giresun is there on duty. It shouldn't be so hard to find pirates and root out them.
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It's organized at a task force level, but it's easier legally if ships assist vessels from their own countries.
 
MontyB said:
That definition would apply to most political movements regardless of ambition though, in other words it isn't difficult to paint anyone as Hitler (or the Nazi's) if you use a wide enough brush.
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That was my point, I was using the Nazi party as an example. Sure you can paint anyone as Hitler, but I'm not talking about Hitler. I'm talking about political groups and movement groups, not a specific man.
 
UnitedSomalia said:
Well no decent human being advocates for mass murder of other human beings, which makes you no better than lets say Hitler, I see nuking Somali is your final solution to the Somali problem huh?

Listen you don't hold any moral high ground, you are what you say. You speak about others maybe its a time you should take a deep look at yourself, you make despicable remarks and you think you are any better? We have seen the likes of you and your statements have the trademark of a psychopath and a sadist.

Everyone can see what you said and it is a testament to your character. I will not debate you as you wish because a person does not debate someone who wishes to annihilate his race.
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Well a well placed 5 meg tactical nuke is pretty final.
KJ is not claiming any moral high ground.
And let me say this about he Nazi Party, since my grandfather was a good little Nazi and told me about the political party and I know the deal here it is, the Nazi party was a political party, nothing more, anyone who was in the political party was a Nazi, anybody who wasn't wasn't a Nazi, wasn't in the political party. the taliban are ALL Muslim killers, Al quida are ALL Muslim killers, the Pirates are ALL killers, Theres a big difference between somebody who would use a nuke to end a continuing problem and a madman who wants to kill an entire race just because he can. If you want so much peace in the world why don't you and your govt start by at least trying to something about pirates instead of turning a blind eye to them? or are you just scared of a few warlords who have taken control of your country?
The US might offer to help, our current president probably won't unless you try to help yourselves.
 
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