The rising of an Empire and the future invasion of Europe!
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FlyingFrog
Active member
gladius said:
Yes I read the complete original post, and I say: it is COMPLETELY NOT possible for a muslim leader to unite all the Muslim countries and conquer Europe by any means in coming 100 years.
The only possible "empire" which can conquer Europe is the Chinese-Russian Empire, if it can be formed in coming 30 years.
Of course you can give your opinion on my post, this is not off-topic I think.
FlyingFrog said:
I already gave all the reasons here why it is possible, there are those who agree, if you don't agree with it then I can't help that.
Most of the people in this board seem to intellegently agree or disagree, except you. All your post seem to be bull-headed in trying to force your answers into people whether they believe it or not, this must be how they do it in your country.
I'm sure they can it can happen, if it happens.
That's a big if. Since there is no real mandate for this to happen. I'm sure it a Moaist dream come true if it does.
By the way didn't you say China was after world peace, so what your saying here is that China is a threat to the entire world after all.
FlyingFrog
Active member
OK, let me make it completely clear to you:
1. I don't agree with your analysis about that new Muslim Empire. Completely not.
2. About "Sina-Russo Alliance Empire", it is only a possibility, although a big possibility.
Oh, btw, I didn't know it is you who wrote the original topic
1. I don't agree with your analysis about that new Muslim Empire. Completely not.
2. About "Sina-Russo Alliance Empire", it is only a possibility, although a big possibility.
Oh, btw, I didn't know it is you who wrote the original topic
Chocobo_Blitzer
Active member
The reason gladius is hostile to your "opinion" is cause you need to actually throw some meat. You just say "no, it won't happen, you're wrong"
You gotta meet his theory at least half-way with various facts and educated guesses.
While I don't want to change the subject off a united Islam, I'm just curious, what would this Russian/Chinese empire have to gain for taking over the world? The motive?
You gotta meet his theory at least half-way with various facts and educated guesses.
While I don't want to change the subject off a united Islam, I'm just curious, what would this Russian/Chinese empire have to gain for taking over the world? The motive?
FlyingFrog
Active member
Chocobo_Blitzer said:
Now, you really beat me. I simply think it is completely NOT possible for Muslims to unite and conquer Europe, sometimes it is plain common sense, like 1+1=2 (well I know some mathmaticians are trying to prove 1+1=2 and 1+2=3
), therefore I don't think I need to talk in deep about why I don't agree with Gladius.Second:
If we are talking about a new empire which can invade Europe, obviously it is not from Mars, then it can only be the Chinese-Russian Alliance. Chinese are not Europeans (who don't agree?
) , Russians are not treated as Europeans, they can form a new empire if their leaders would like to make some deal . But for what he*l do they need to conquer Europe? For what? It is simply no more time of Chenghis Khan, it is power struggle in the economic sense. Therefore I say: the Topis is completely fantacy although I don't have intention to offend anyone especially Gladius since he really did a good job studying this issue.Chocobo_Blitzer
Active member
Uhhh if It's has simple as arithmetic, then why can't you say anything other than "I think"
Saying It's completely fantasy must have some credible counter to it.
I mean, I too thought it was 100% Bull, but I picked and poked at it and found it at least has some chance of occuring.
I don't wanna hammer on you or anything, I just don't want people to blow it off so easily without making a case.
btw, Iran is fast trying to get nukes, ya know.
Saying It's completely fantasy must have some credible counter to it.
I mean, I too thought it was 100% Bull, but I picked and poked at it and found it at least has some chance of occuring.
I don't wanna hammer on you or anything, I just don't want people to blow it off so easily without making a case.
btw, Iran is fast trying to get nukes, ya know.
FlyingFrog
Active member
Yah I know I should supply true arguments but honestly I really don't get that much of time to do it.
You mentioned Iran, again, Iran can pose NO threat to Europe although they got ICBM (not yet) but Europe got much much more, there is NO single chance that a Muslim country can pose threat to Europe for a long long time. Also I don't want to offend Muslims at all, I just try to be realistic
You mentioned Iran, again, Iran can pose NO threat to Europe although they got ICBM (not yet) but Europe got much much more, there is NO single chance that a Muslim country can pose threat to Europe for a long long time. Also I don't want to offend Muslims at all, I just try to be realistic
godofthunder9010
Active member
I gotta agree with Frog on this one. A united Islamic empire is a long ways off and has no potential to be a serious threat right now. China/Russia could be a threat much sooner and has greater potential of actually happening in the immediate future.
One single Muslim country no, no chance at all.
But I have been saying this all along.
But the whole Muslim world united under one supreme leader, could either buy the technology from China or Russia or even the West, or modernize themelsves, most likely they will do both.
I don't don't any of you studied history, but when Japan was forced to moderdize because it was being threatened by outsiders, how long did it take them to go from using medeival weapons (samuria swords) to defeating a European power (Russia) is an sea battle? Not that long. Maybe they won't do it as effeciently as Japan but they may come close enough to make an impact.
As far as nuclear weapons goes, Pakistan has nuclear weapons they're a Muslim country, they could just share that tech with everyone else.
Besides I never said this would happen anythime soon, I said it would be around 10 to 20 years or more. This has a very slim chance of happening within the next few years.
As far as Sino-Russian alliance it could happen, but me personally I see no mandate for this, no fanatical drive towards making this happen. If it does then good, I think the European Union will have an easier time fighting them than the Islamics.
But I have been saying this all along.
But the whole Muslim world united under one supreme leader, could either buy the technology from China or Russia or even the West, or modernize themelsves, most likely they will do both.
I don't don't any of you studied history, but when Japan was forced to moderdize because it was being threatened by outsiders, how long did it take them to go from using medeival weapons (samuria swords) to defeating a European power (Russia) is an sea battle? Not that long. Maybe they won't do it as effeciently as Japan but they may come close enough to make an impact.
As far as nuclear weapons goes, Pakistan has nuclear weapons they're a Muslim country, they could just share that tech with everyone else.
Besides I never said this would happen anythime soon, I said it would be around 10 to 20 years or more. This has a very slim chance of happening within the next few years.
As far as Sino-Russian alliance it could happen, but me personally I see no mandate for this, no fanatical drive towards making this happen. If it does then good, I think the European Union will have an easier time fighting them than the Islamics.
godofthunder9010
Active member
Well, consider the Soviet and Chinese history. There have been some very emperialistic meglomaniacs in their past. Russia is currently in prime shape for such a leader, under the promise of "Restoring Russia to its former glory." They already have the technology and a strong distrust of the West. Same goes for China and they'd gain access to the best of Russian tech in the process. So the list of "things that have to happen" is a lot short with Sino/Russian scenario.
Chocobo_Blitzer
Active member
If Russia and China didn't pull something during the cold war, why would they now? Russia isn't communist anymore, and I have heavy doubts that people would buy into a imperialistic method to restore Russia to it's former "glory" if anything, they'll do just the opposite. If anything, I'd say Russia is slowly developing a distrust of the middle-east.
Besides, Russia and China mistrust eachother too much, I think, to ever bring a strong alliance, or "empire".
China I can buy more into, they still have that red star. But.... they are slowly converting themselves to bring better prosperity, I think they're too smart to throw that away in favor of world domination. (But then there's Taiwan, but we must never mention that again!)
Islam has that whole world converting plan imedded in their religion, or so the fanatics are so hell bent on spreading.
Besides, Russia and China mistrust eachother too much, I think, to ever bring a strong alliance, or "empire".
China I can buy more into, they still have that red star. But.... they are slowly converting themselves to bring better prosperity, I think they're too smart to throw that away in favor of world domination. (But then there's Taiwan, but we must never mention that again!)
Islam has that whole world converting plan imedded in their religion, or so the fanatics are so hell bent on spreading.
godofthunder9010
Active member
Very valid points all. China and Russia don't much trust each other, and then there's the mutual mistrust between China and India. There are numerous similar obstacles to unifying Islam under a common leader, but the ideology is there certainly.
As for Russia, whether or not they reverted to Communism (pretty unlikely) or picked up with some other system, they are currently in very similar state as Germany post WW1. They dropped out of being the most feared military in the world (the only exceptions possibly being US and China). Their country is a mess right now. I'd be very surprised if the people of Russia were not of the opinion that the world has completely screwed them over. Everything that an opportunistic charismatic leader would need to set them onto the path of conquest. Such a leader could easily define who and what was responsible for the collapse of the Soviet Union.
China would just need its own Joseph Stalin, the ideology is already there. True, they stand to lose much, but that doesn't tend to stop those sorts of people.
As for Russia, whether or not they reverted to Communism (pretty unlikely) or picked up with some other system, they are currently in very similar state as Germany post WW1. They dropped out of being the most feared military in the world (the only exceptions possibly being US and China). Their country is a mess right now. I'd be very surprised if the people of Russia were not of the opinion that the world has completely screwed them over. Everything that an opportunistic charismatic leader would need to set them onto the path of conquest. Such a leader could easily define who and what was responsible for the collapse of the Soviet Union.
China would just need its own Joseph Stalin, the ideology is already there. True, they stand to lose much, but that doesn't tend to stop those sorts of people.
The Sino-Russian attack could be a scenario, I'm sure there are some die-hard Maoist and communist more than willing to see this happen, but unless they take over both governments this won't happen, especially in Russia. I agree with you the list is shorter, but I don't see any zeal or fanaticism backing it up, despite their distrust of the West, Imperial aspirations, ect.
I tend to agree with Chocobo that they mistrust each other too much, ( not to mention their best chance was during the cold war ), and I also see them both as countries that are begining to have good sense and join the modern world of creating prosperity for themselves, rather than strive for Imperialistic glory.
The extremist Islamic mentality however doesn't have this good sense as we see it, we saw that with what happened in Russia recently.
I tend to agree with Chocobo that they mistrust each other too much, ( not to mention their best chance was during the cold war ), and I also see them both as countries that are begining to have good sense and join the modern world of creating prosperity for themselves, rather than strive for Imperialistic glory.
The extremist Islamic mentality however doesn't have this good sense as we see it, we saw that with what happened in Russia recently.
My God, you say as though ever muslim is extreme, I'm not trying to offend you, but you've gotta be careful the way you say things.
There are extremes in every race, religion and nationality. Because for example, George Bush is Republican, does that make every American a Republican? No, all people are different, and even extremist muslims would have different views on who the real Mahdi is.
Not only that, you're getting Muslim countries mixed up with Arab countries etc. Pakistan is not arab, and its only beef is with India, and if Pakistan even thought of joining forces India would annialate them.
Would each country's leader just give up office for some guy claiming to be the Mahdi? I doubt it.
They wouldn't be a force to be reckoned with, they'd be a force, but they have nothing powerful or the technology. You mention Japan defeating Russia, by ww2 Japan were still using ancient 'honourable' methods.
Look at the situation now, would the USA ALLOW this coalation to form or develop modern technology? I doubt that.
A good read and well put up points Gladius but I just cannot see it happening soon or in the near future, and even if it did the world would crush them, countries act very different when a threat of war looms.
I believe that in conventional war, UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain any of the developed European countries would crush the middle east coalition on its own.
Sorry to ramble and I ment no offence if you see i that way Glad, just posing a different argument.
GuyontheRight
Active member
My apologies, the words should have been switched. That does not change the fact that Islam has given birth to the most wicked of terrorists In this century, however young it may be. Whether It be the true interpritation of Islam is not up for me to debate, I am not an Iman and I know little about the religion's scriptures, but I do realize that there are man Muslims out there who would not hesitate to kill you on the basis that you or I think differently then them.
AsianAmerican
Active member
Hello i am a new member ..... anything can happen, but IMO the Sino-Russian Empire sounds more probable then the "Middle East" Empire, but hey anything could happen, hopefully not in my life time. 
..... anything can happen, but IMO the Sino-Russian Empire sounds more probable then the "Middle East" Empire, but hey anything could happen, hopefully not in my life time. godofthunder9010
Active member
Welcome to the forums, AsianAmerican.
Yeah, the way I see it, the United States, in its puzzling role of being the "world's policeman" has a lot less chance of influencing things along the Sino/Russian lines. Also, I don't believe in absolute fate. I believe that if Christianity and Islam are doomed to collide, that is a doom the people of the world will willingly choose. The people of the world could choose another fate, its all a matter of them deciding to do so.
Yeah, the way I see it, the United States, in its puzzling role of being the "world's policeman" has a lot less chance of influencing things along the Sino/Russian lines. Also, I don't believe in absolute fate. I believe that if Christianity and Islam are doomed to collide, that is a doom the people of the world will willingly choose. The people of the world could choose another fate, its all a matter of them deciding to do so.
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