TBA_PAKI said:
Well r0K, the problem is that its like a never-ending story with little or no conclusion at all. There will be claims and then counter-claims, so no one can determine anything.
Bold is TBA_PAKI, normal font is me:
Do you really think that Russia is very friendly to Europe and not others. Then you are totally mistaken. Russia only looks forward to its own interests rather then caring about others and they too know that fighting a united Islamic force is not an option for them because they alone can't win that conventional conflict. Russian strategy is not that good and many muslim nations will be using best of the weapons (imported from USA, Europe, China and also Russia).
I think they'll rather bully you for oil then alienate themselves from Europe. I know everyone looks after their own interests but ask yourself if Russia is more naturally inclined towards the Muslim world or Europe...besides they know that it would be only a matter of time before the US gets involved and they'd rather share the spoils of war with the rest of us than endanger their position with a possible confrontation with the US.
Now if this all unfolds like it's written here (as if :roll: )...not even China can save you...IMHO...as always.
Even if only Russia gets involved it's a whole new ball game...suddenly you have an open flank. :shock:
Like I said before that fighting one nation is something different, but fighting a coalition of nations is very difficult and costly thing.
Yes indeed, but you seem to have forgotten that a coalition brings problems in itself, though I do believe they will be pushed aside but you shouldn't expect a well oiled machine. (at least not from the start)
And about invasion prospects, it can happen regardless of your thinking.
Well of course...
--> First step would be gathering sufficient intelligence from agents inside Europe about potentail military targets and permanent bases. Thus plans can be modified accordingly.
Good choice...however you are already under observation...that's not a counterplan, it's just to show you that you won't be doing anything new.
--> Then use of Ballistic Missiles in the first hand on those targets will be an effective option. Also hitting presidential sites will be good for causing panic among many people. (Note it will include Airports and Airforce bases)
Please do note...that if you use that on a city combined with something like anthrax or alike...someone will nuke you...just for a warning.
Just to illustrate...the British SSBN regularly listen to BBC World Radio...and guess what they do if there's no BBC Radio and they can't get a signal from the UK High Command.
--> Airforce strikes then will be considered on Naval targets of enemy followed by attacks from large number of smaller boats. And no matter what you believe, it will take time for Europe to materalize an effective naval blockade in Medi. sea and it will be then too late.
Airforce strikes? You talk like they'll get through
...well some of them might but there wont be anything left for the second wave.
--> Through Turkey a couple of light battalions will be sent for invasion. There the European ground forces will be able to halt them but a quick enough counter attack by better equiped brigades will push the Europeans back.
NATO will be on high alert by the time you get to the Bospor straits...don't count on the better equipped brigades to perform a miracle...and besides Greeks have some decent gear aswell...and please start talking divisions not brigades or battalions.
No matter how zealous they'll be I'd like to see a couple of battalions going to try their chances...any decent commander would know that they are the diversion...a trap if you will.
--> Suicide attacks will be planted inside Europe by large no. of agents to disrupt communications and cause more panic among civilians.
That's about the only thing I don't have something to counter it with.
...except maybe the fact that the civilian populace will start taking matters into their own hands...and that means they won't look for clear signs of someone being a terrorist...if they won't know him and he'll start behaving suspiciously they'll take care of him.
To illustrate...after the siege of Beslan, the civvies killed one of the terrorists and guided the law enforcement agencies to the others.
--> For counter offensive Europe could consider a counter attack from African side. But effective Gurreilla plans in place there will be able to slow them down.
That would be a mistake...the counterattack through Africa...no counterattacks...I'd let you bleed first on the defenses then I'd do a counterattack
--> Then second big wolly of Short Range Ballistic Missile strikes can be planted on that counter-invasion force of Europeans for adding more pressure to them.
Normally that size of a force is dispersed and in wartime you'll be hardpressed to get good intel on their whereabouts.
--> Also on Egyptian Nile river, very strong counter measures can be made to halt any invasion. Large belt of military units with western weaponry can be placed there to effectively block any attempt of break-through by Europeans. Also some elements of Airforce can be used there for protection from skies.
As I said before...no invasion, just electronic warfare and cruise missiles
--> Israel can be destroyed through use of few tactical nuke warheads.
That's true...but they'll take a hell of a lot of you with them...they got nukes too :lol:
--> More brigades will be sent through Turkish route to make it more difficult for nato forces to hold on. But a separate big wolly of SRBM strikes will be more moral-shattering for European troops.Thus there will be some serious causalties on both sides in this area but many parts of main European army will be destroyed as well. Making it a good option for futher-push in to Europe.
Again...dispersion of forces...SRBM is an obsolete weapon...you can't hit anything smaller than a city with it.
--> Note that the European most effective counter-offensive tool would be there good Airforce and Naval presence in the opening of Medi. River but very big tussle will be taking place in Medi. sea through Airforce and loss of aircraft on both sides on daily basis will be damaging for both.
Indeed but who will suffer more from attrition...Europe with it's farthest away factories in the UK or Sweden or you who have little or no factories at all?(and all in range of EU assets...even the one in Pakistan where IIRC you're trying to manufacture the FC1.)
You do...I admit but the things that are coming out of those factories are mighty different then what is coming out of Europe's.
Additionally...the Arab nations were never really home in the water...in sharp contrast to many European countries...not only you don't have the ships and equipment, you don't have the cadre to fill those ships even if you had them...again in sharp contrast :roll: to European countries who have a long maritime tradition and experience...so IMHO the Med for you would be a no-go zone.
--> Oil reserves cut for so long will be starting to cause some serious troubles in European industries but those can be some-how met through logistics support by there allies from other parts of the world.
Yes indeed....well lets hope so
--> Up-till now the conflict would be more in the favour of muslim forces. But then Nukes will be the last resort to save Europe and a massive Nuclear War can be triggered through Nuclear strikes from Missiles in to the main cities by both parties.
You'd be out of an airforce in the first 2 weeks...and that's looking optimisticaly...I don't even want to discuss the naval aspect.
Your pool of people in Europe would probably soon be interned (like the Japanese were in the US during WWII) thus reducing your chances for success on suicide missions and intel gathering.
--> Finally no winner but losses would be incredible for both. As I mentioned it again and again.
No, colonialism would be a reality again. (I had too, sorry
)...but really my opinion is that yes, losses would be great on both sides...however there are so many targets in Europe of great value that you can't possibly hope to get them all...the point is we can rebuild almost no matter what...you'd have no food, medicine etc...you won't be in any shape for rebuilding...the oil fields close to Europe would be either destroyed (thus hurting your war machine from the get go) or captured..hampering your income severely....don't forget that in the aftermath all your money which is in western banks would be frozen etc...should I go on?
And of course your free to debunk everything I wrote
Cheers
