The rising of an Empire and the future invasion of Europe!

[TBA_PAKI]

C'mon Doc.S...even you can't really believe that everyone in Europe would just bow down?
About the Turks... I think eventually they'll ally with the west...they already want in and besides what's to keep them in that pit called Middle East.
Of course I didn't mean that the EU would just rally together "out of the blue" and march southeast...something has to happen before that...

@TBA_PAKI:
"Time favouring christians"? WTF :?: Time is favouring reasonable, intelligent people...
btw, sorry about the harshness of my reply...I'm not normally like that I just had a bad morning. :roll:

It doesn't matters friend, we are simply discussing possible scenarios but the most demanded part is PEACE.

But about Turkey, though they have good relations with western nations and Isreal (and might be optimistic of joining EU) but when it comes to getting favour of help against a muslim country, they won't support (as evident in recent Iraq war)!

 

[rOk]

It doesn't matters friend, we are simply discussing possible scenarios but the most demanded part is PEACE.

But about Turkey, though they have good relations with western nations and Isreal (and might be optimistic of joining EU) but when it comes to getting favour of help against a muslim country, they won't support (as evident in recent Iraq war)!

A lot of western nations didn't support it too(still don't)...so that's a bad example.

About the plans of the muslims...and this is a joke...now that the climates are shifting and there's snow in Algeria and warm winters in Europe you're looking for the sun and you'll find it in Europe.

 

[Doc.S]

C'mon Doc.S...even you can't really believe that everyone in Europe would just bow down?
About the Turks... I think eventually they'll ally with the west...they already want in and besides what's to keep them in that pit called Middle East.
Of course I didn't mean that the EU would just rally together "out of the blue" and march southeast...something has to happen before that...

Believe me rOk this is hard to acknowledge I dont like this anymore then you do. However there would be resistance but it would not be recognized under the rules of free-warfair. The resistance movements would probably be as hunted as the Iraqi Insurgents in some countries. Police and small tactical special-forces army units will be forced to help the invaders rather then fight them off from our streets. There will be alot of support for these actions too. The men/women that will pic up arms will be hunted prey thats for sure. It will be a reversed "government of Vichy France" probably a rightwing resistance movement.

I am not talking about an extrem right wing movement, but common ppl that dont want to be another Islamic Republic thats all. This movement will probably get support from other parts of the world, however it will be a very difficult task to bring them what they may need outmost, moral support from the ppl that haven´t given up or are under constant brainwashing from public service agencys in their own countrys. The resistance movements will need a heck of a Office of Strategic Services (OSS) suport to fight back in those conditions our own gov are planing for us, alot of ppl may find this kind of resistance futile im afraid.

The Turks are muslims too and if there would be any kind of B.I.G uprising I dont think the minority will set the agenda. A man have to look at history, and see what happend in Indonesia and other parts of the world before Islam did get its roots deep in the ground. It has happen before and will happen again. Problem is that ppl never learn from history. This uprising can be triggered from almost anything, as a deadly disease that kills millions of ppl for an example. It can be a peaceful transition if our gov want it to look like that. But it can also be a bloody transition. Faith can be a powerful allie, or a devistating plague.

Cheers:
Doc.S
:viking:

 

[TBA_PAKI]

About the plans of the muslims...and this is a joke...now that the climates are shifting and there's snow in Algeria and warm winters in Europe you're looking for the sun and you'll find it in Europe.

Well lets get to the sunny regions guys :lol:

 

[rOk]

I most strongly disagree with your claim that the police and others would be forced to do what the politicians tell them...I cannot accept that, sorry...they're people after all too.

And I doubt that any Euro politician would give such an order.
I know you (the Scandinavians) have always more or less kept to yourself (except Vikings )and I must admit I don't really know how's the situation up there...but try to imagine for instance Silvio Berlusconi(or Schroder,Blair...) giving out an order to the police that the riots must be stopped and all borders opened for whoever is invading...Dresden would be covered in swastikas the next day if Schroder said something like that.
C'mon tell me you can't imagine that...pretty please

About the Turks...I know they are muslim, however they come from a different ethnicity(sp?) and how many of them practice religion like in other muslim states (hooded women...)
I've been to Turkey this summer and we drove all along it's eastern shore and everyone I met talked good about the EU(Greeks excluded ) and alike (partly because they wanted to sell me something) but those who didn't sell anything and young people don't see any future in Turkey allienating from the west(EU).
I almost felt a quiet despise for the Arabs from the Turks...as in we're closer to Europe than you, we're better than you.

#edit
I was re-reading the last couple of pages and stumbled upon a claim that the Med could be controlled by the Mahdi army...my first question is how?

The most logical answer would be via submarine warfare-they'd fail miserably in anything else (numbers of warships, experience...) however the Med is layed so thickly with listening devices that there's a saying among the ASW people that you could hear a whale fart in the middle of the Atlantic(or something like that...can't remember right now).

 

[Doc.S]

:lol:

We are 15-20 years in the future when this events accure, the police will be as Islamic as the Military will be if something like this happens in sweden for an example. I`m not saying this is doomed to happen, I only say what I think gona happen, and I hope that this is a bad dream and that I will snap out of it in time to realise that it is only a bad dream. But the talks and all the other scenarios have actually taken place allready. * left hand on his chest and the other on the mouse trigger.*

That is the bad news.

The good news is that there might be time left to get more ppl to question the current position of our current gov´s in EU today. Turks are in general nice ppl agree, and even if this may stink or sound like a horror movie I do show them who follows the secret plan respect for their brilliant plan. I give it an overage chance to succed whatever the secret battle plans for a future Islamic empire may be.

I say if I didnt think or believe in what I think is going happen there wouldn´t be any sport to be a viking after all. 8)

Cheerful:
Doc.S
:viking:

 

[rOk]

I think the Church would get involved sooner or later...after all this is their primary "believer pool"....about the demographics predictions....don't believe them all...I'll just repeat what a Swede wrote on some other forum regarding this...He said

If you believe the demographics reports from 1900 the whole of Sweden would have to live in the US

 

[A Can of Man]

Well Doc S., I think there'll just come a point where there will be a back lash, like there is in the Netherlands.
Where it was once one of the most tolerating countries in Europe, now things are changing. Eventually people will get fed up with the politicians who advocate protecting the people who harm the public. They will be voted out of office and those in favor of solving the problem one way or another will be voted in.
However, I do believe things like inaction, incompetence and political correctness will make the job much harder.
P.S. Doc S., I might be headed over to Europe. So there's still me :lol: Daley to the rescue :lol:

 

[godofthunder9010]

I can see through your post the sheer level of under-estimation, godofthunder and you know what? it is the first sign of Emotional Defeat in tactical sense through Blindness to open ground realities and possibilites.

Gee, thanks for the vote of confidence there man! What I was attempting to do was put forward some realities to correctly annalyze the situation. My thought process goes like this: "Here are you obstacles Mr Mahdi, what is your brillian plan of addressing them??" I just don't think that a conventional war is the most effective thing. If someone can make better sense out of the logistics than just say that it just works out somehow. All I ask is that someone make more sense of it all.

Take example of 9/11 Terrorist Attacks on US soil in sensitive regions. What was noticed that "Surprise and Motivation" tactics worked regardless of any military strength.

Muslim fundamentalists successfully blindsided the USA, who's security was so poor that we were almost begging for something terrible to happen. The end results? Well, it certainly hasn't benefitted the Muslim world to have destroyed the WTC and hit the Pentagon. Now, a very large military is parked in the Middle East and they wouldn't be there enmasse if 9/11 had not happened. We're going to have to see how it all plays out from here of course, but it certainly hasn't been much of a benefit to Islam as yet.

Apart from this, if any strange event occurs like this one that grabs world-wide media attention. People turn to Bible prophecies and Nostradamus predictions and come up with quatrains that fulfills that particular event, funny isn't it!

Both Christians and Muslims alike have interpreted their own prophecies to mean that they are destined to fight each other in a gigantic horrific war. It offends something inside me, even though I am a pretty religious person. My religions does not require me automatically hate every Muslim in the world. I would hope that many Muslims feel the same. I say a giant bloody war between a united Christendom and a united Islam is only inevitable if we make it inevitable

And talking about victory against one muslim country is something different. But facing a huge muslim-nation coalition is something serious to be reckoned with. (A simple logic is that unity even among weaker can turn in to considerable strength also)!

As far as unity is concerned, it can be driven through certain factors that involve, Faith, Geo-political situations, Threat level, Motivation and public opinion. Also in the past, a few people with impressive traits managed to did miracles (take example of how Islam spread )!

I don't remember ever talking about a single Muslim country. I was assuming that all of Islam unites and all of Europe unites to defend itself. The USA's involvement goes without saying, they'd come help out.

Also many muslim nations are arming them with new western and chinese weaponry. Thus Tech superiority is not much on the ground but in AIR especially. And Naval blockade in Medi. river will take time and can be countered through swift mobilization and attack tactics. Believe me any military genious can come up with the plan. (Since war requires planning)

The main point is that Europe currently makes everything for themselves. The Muslim has to buy decent gear from other countries. I believe that detail must change before an Islamic Superstate can truly be effective. I believe that they can do it, but it will take some doing.

To be continued ...[/b]

 

[Doc.S]

the_13th_redneck

P.S. Doc S., I might be headed over to Europe. So there's still me Daley to the rescue

I feel much safer allredy buddy! with you in the neighborhood we are, "4 against 9 < million>" I fancy our chances to survive, "approximately 100 to 1" But we have one important advantage, I know the terrain, they who attack from the outside doesn`t, and those on the inside only know their local neighborhood and their streets in their citys where most of these attackers probably would start out from, let`s rock. :lol:

Conventional War is not the option for such an attack, I think more of an gradually reinforced presence towards the final takeover or retreat. The attacker would start out small, and find weapons in our own countrys as the Spetznas would have done it if Russia would have attacked us. And larger units would push over the borders while different gov`s fumble with how they should deal with all the bombings and local outburst of problems in the infrastructure when panic brakes out amongst former happy nice civilians that would do anything to survive so the best thing to do, avoid big citys, potential leftwing strongholds in the country side that would be perfect recruitment sources, and urban terrain with to many eyes under guard of the enemy.

Local kids are experts to point out an outsider on the streets for the occupants. I think it would be vise to keep the heads low and tune in the radio in the opening of such and attack. The attacker wont be the only danger if such event would occure, there are alot of madmen/women that want to play out their hollywood dreams and just shoot somebody. :m16shoot:

Ps: sorry for this I need more

A deadly disease befor the chaos perhaps? Alot of those movies now, are they preparing ppl for something special? :lol:

LINK:

http://www.dawnofthedeadmovie.net/home.htm


Cheers:
Doc.S
:viking:

 

[A Can of Man]

I think the ones we must look out for are the wars that are fought without a single shot being fired. The ones in the court rooms, parliament, etc. If it ever goes to shooting, that means things have gone too VERY badly for too long and the situation very well could be unsalvagable by that point.
Do you live in a house or an apartment? If you can, might want to consider an underground family bunker as a summer project. 8)

 

[rOk]

Do you live in a house or an apartment? If you can, might want to consider an underground family bunker as a summer project. 8)

[j/k]The Doc.S Tora Bora underground cave complex[/j/k]

 

[TBA_PAKI]

I can see through your post the sheer level of under-estimation, godofthunder and you know what? it is the first sign of Emotional Defeat in tactical sense through Blindness to open ground realities and possibilites.

Gee, thanks for the vote of confidence there man! What I was attempting to do was put forward some realities to correctly annalyze the situation. My thought process goes like this: "Here are you obstacles Mr Mahdi, what is your brillian plan of addressing them??" I just don't think that a conventional war is the most effective thing. If someone can make better sense out of the logistics than just say that it just works out somehow. All I ask is that someone make more sense of it all.

Take example of 9/11 Terrorist Attacks on US soil in sensitive regions. What was noticed that "Surprise and Motivation" tactics worked regardless of any military strength.

Muslim fundamentalists successfully blindsided the USA, who's security was so poor that we were almost begging for something terrible to happen. The end results? Well, it certainly hasn't benefitted the Muslim world to have destroyed the WTC and hit the Pentagon. Now, a very large military is parked in the Middle East and they wouldn't be there enmasse if 9/11 had not happened. We're going to have to see how it all plays out from here of course, but it certainly hasn't been much of a benefit to Islam as yet.

Apart from this, if any strange event occurs like this one that grabs world-wide media attention. People turn to Bible prophecies and Nostradamus predictions and come up with quatrains that fulfills that particular event, funny isn't it!

Both Christians and Muslims alike have interpreted their own prophecies to mean that they are destined to fight each other in a gigantic horrific war. It offends something inside me, even though I am a pretty religious person. My religions does not require me automatically hate every Muslim in the world. I would hope that many Muslims feel the same. I say a giant bloody war between a united Christendom and a united Islam is only inevitable if we make it inevitable

And talking about victory against one muslim country is something different. But facing a huge muslim-nation coalition is something serious to be reckoned with. (A simple logic is that unity even among weaker can turn in to considerable strength also)!

As far as unity is concerned, it can be driven through certain factors that involve, Faith, Geo-political situations, Threat level, Motivation and public opinion. Also in the past, a few people with impressive traits managed to did miracles (take example of how Islam spread )!

I don't remember ever talking about a single Muslim country. I was assuming that all of Islam unites and all of Europe unites to defend itself. The USA's involvement goes without saying, they'd come help out.

Also many muslim nations are arming them with new western and chinese weaponry. Thus Tech superiority is not much on the ground but in AIR especially. And Naval blockade in Medi. river will take time and can be countered through swift mobilization and attack tactics. Believe me any military genious can come up with the plan. (Since war requires planning)

The main point is that Europe currently makes everything for themselves. The Muslim has to buy decent gear from other countries. I believe that detail must change before an Islamic Superstate can truly be effective. I believe that they can do it, but it will take some doing.

To be continued ...[/b]

Well I admire your level of confidence

About attacks on WTC and Pentagon; that event simply shows that "Surprise and Motivation Tactics" are horrible and can do some serious damage. It can be of different nature in different cases so no argument here!

And about US Military involvement in IRAQ. That war has it's own benefits and drawbacks. But you know what that real foes, IRAN and North Korea are very close to become new Nuclear powers and it is already late to take serious actions there (even you won't believe that).

The situation is already heating-up even after two great battles US fought and many muslims think that it is time to unite. (the sooner, the better!)

Though US military is in IRAQ, the challenges there haven't ended yet and even Osama hasn't been caught also. And tussle with Iran is not a US consideration !

As far as prophecies of Christains and Muslims are concerned, The concept of Armaggedon Battle comes from Bible (not Quran)!

And people interpret that battle in different ways and it is sad to see that muslims are taken as ultimate threat :roll: (the sign of in-security after 9/11 attacks) without understanding the core-issues of tension.

@Massive scale Invasion of Europe: The only thing that I understand about such a large scale battle is it will bring destruction on both sides with no victors, but loosers!

And about the decisions on trade-of-arms, it's very profitable and it will not stop at any cost. Don't know what you think about it but trade-relations with more countries bring more benefits to economy. And Islamic nations are very good customers !

 

[gladius]

LINK:

http://www.dawnofthedeadmovie.net/home.htm

Cheers:
Doc.S
:viking:

Hey Doc, I love that movie. Best zombie movie ever!


Let me try and get a word in concerning the discussion at hand

This is what I see as far as the future political situation of Europe some 10 years ahead.

Most of Europe at least is run by very leftwing politicians backed by a very leftwing populous.

Within 10 or 15 years (and even now) you will have a large voting block made up of Muslims. Lets say this Islamic Empire arises, do you really think the Europeans could do anything to counter this empire without it costing the politicians back home? Anything negative done against this Empire whether real or precieved will be met with resistance inside Europe itself. So you see how difficult it will be for Europe to contend with this empire militarily even if it wanted to.

Conclusion: there will be little or no European military build-up to counter this, even if they see the threat coming.

Beside the words military build-up and leftwing politics don't seem to go together do they? So the European people mostly will be okay with letting this threat be. There will a few desenting voices (or maybe just one--- Doc.S :lol: ) calling for a build-up but they will be largely ignored.

One common trait of leftwing politics is the avoidance of confict at all cost. They will seek a policy of appeasment over one of guarded watchfulness in hopes that this will avoid conflict in the future. When this Islamic Empire comes to be, Europe will seek to be in good terms (meaning appeasment) with it, not knowing the core of this empire is absolutely at odds with the Western way of life. Part of this friendlyness and appeasment will mean the providing of technolgy and arms, after all if we share weapons were not going to fight, right?

Conclusion: Alot of the arms that will be used against Europe later, will be provided by the Europeans themselves.

You don't believe me? Right now Europe is pushing hard to sell high tech weapons to China. How stupid is that. It's good for China, but for the security of the West not really.

Like I said one common liberal trait is the avoidance of conflict. Take European opposition to Iraq, the words pre-emptive strike is nowhere in their vocabulary. Yes the Europeans will fight if they are invade, and they will fight hard, but what will it take to get them to this point. Will they they be willing to take extreme action, meaning actually going to war before the enemy hits their soil, from what I've seen I highly doudt it.

Conclusion: The Europeans won't awake to this threat until they see enemy tanks rolling in their soil.
By then the war is already well underway. Will it be too late? Who knows. But any chance of keeping down causualties before this war massively erupts is lost.

This is the reason I think Europe will be invaded, because they will allow themelves to be invaded. Most of it will be of their own making rather than the enemies initiative alone. This is the reason that will make this possible.

Of course I didn't mean that the EU would just rally together "out of the blue" and march southeast...something has to happen before that...

I have been saying this all along... That "something" my friend is an invasion.

Before any rallying or re-grouping can take place millions are already dead.

 

[TBA_PAKI]

Hey gladius, some good points based on common ground scenarios there!

But personally many muslims take Europeans as good people due to there more friendly guestures (although Britons have to stop invading muslim countries along side USA). And the mentioned IMAM MEHDI would be a very good person. Indeed he will have very strong personality and also will be blessed with some natural traits (like prophets), according to the Islamic prophecies.

His skills will be used to end corruption in muslim nations and unite them once again in to a Islamic Super-state and turn them in to path of prosperity but that will happen through some serious dealings with traitors.

And it will be possible to do so, since IMAM MEHDI has a very strong Psychological impact in minds of most muslims.

So chill out MAN! there is no such war coming, I believe (but Britons should re-consider there policy).

NOTE: I can give you great details about his prophecies in personal !

 

[Doc.S]

:lol:

the_13th_redneck I am with you over here, it will be to late and to many people will turn a blind eye on this untill it bites them from the behind. But dont despair - rOk have solved the problem for me and others like the old good boys as us on the forum. The Tora Bora complex - codename Titan. No house at the moment but in the summer we will probably move to a house. We will rent for starters but then, I will get on with the digging. But not at the house. That would be too obvious. :lol:

rOk Behind a screen of crunching sounds and static you can hear a voice calling out from the Lonewolf cave somewhere in the top secret Tora Bora complex. Danny boy calling broadsword... Danny boy calling broadsword... Over!... I got it... I got it all... Need transport... Over!...

Beside the words military build-up and liberal politics don't seem to go together do they? So the European people mostly will be okay with letting this threat be. There will a few desenting voices (or maybe just one--- Doc.S ) calling for a build-up but they will be largely ignored.

gladius Agree it is an unbelievable good movie for 2000 standards indeed, and I like the end too - I wont tell the end - I`ll never teeell - but there are apperently two different endings, and I have seen the good one, the directors cut I believe. And you are right once again. One voice and one brain amongst this confused ppl. It will probably stay that way if not something extremly peculiar accures. Maybe a UFO landing on the main square with a big screen TV that shows the future with a really good soround system as small green man straps the spectators in chairs at the square in old faschion Clockwork Orange 1971 movie style. :lol:

Ps: TBA_PAKI if you can? If you have time? please send me a copy of that secret plan you mentioned. If I say please cant you give me a translated copy of it? :lol:

Cheers:
Doc.S
:viking:

 

[A Can of Man]

There's only one big problem with a Torra Bora complex in Sweden. SNOW MELT!
Mind you, did you know that a lot of Afghan "tunnels" were really irrigation systems built underground over centuries?

TBA_PAKI, you see, that's the problem. A country can't be held hostage by an ethnic group at home on its policies throughout the world and at home. That's the problem. Basically you have millions of people over "here" with their hearts and loyalties still clearly "over there." THAT is the issue. The fact that Islam isn't a pacifist religion like Buddhism adds to it. A lot of people try to explain that it's a religion of peace but after 7 years of living in Malaysia/Indonesia, that's certainly not the impression I got! I've had plenty of Muslim friends growing up, but no point pretending to be pacifists if you ain't it.
When one emigrates and attains a new citizenship, he's agreeing to put his new country above and ahead of all others, including the country of his origin. It's not something to be taken lightly.
Sure you could disagree with things, but you cannot simply disagree with it on the grounds that its your old home.

 

[godofthunder9010]

You see, NOW the conversation is turning (again) towards the idea of what I think has a very very good chance of success. Europe is already very far along into the process of being overwhelmed from within by Islam. That is a MUCH more effective option than conventional war, largely because it is already in place and ready to go. All that would be needed would be a reason for the Muslims in Europe to want to destroy Christian Europe.

I still think that it is just plain silly to make the prediction that a Muslim vs Christian bloodbath is inevitable. Humanity can choose that fate, but the choice is theirs.

 

[gladius]

Hey gladius, some good points based on common ground scenarios there!

But personally many muslims take Europeans as good people due to there more friendly guestures (although Britons have to stop invading muslim countries along side USA). And the mentioned IMAM MEHDI would be a very good person. Indeed he will have very strong personality and also will be blessed with some natural traits (like prophets), according to the Islamic prophecies.

His skills will be used to end corruption in muslim nations and unite them once again in to a Islamic Super-state and turn them in to path of prosperity but that will happen through some serious dealings with traitors.

And it will be possible to do so, since IMAM MEHDI has a very strong Psychological impact in minds of most muslims.

So chill out MAN! there is no such war coming, I believe (but Britons should re-consider there policy).

NOTE: I can give you great details about his prophecies in personal !

Isn't one of the prophecies that the The Muslim armies will battle those under the Christian armies, and also that the Mahdi will conquer Jerusalem and destroy Rome.

So for him to be the true Mahdi doesn't he have to fullfill this, if doesn't then he is not the true Mahdi then is he?

So you can see where he will be stuck into starting a war whether he likes it or not.

Besides the whole world is supposed to convert into Islam after all this there are alot of people out there who are not willing to do this unless you threaten their lives even then alot of them would rather choose death.

So if he doesn't do all that the he would be a false Mahdi, not only that it also would prove those writings to be false.

 

[A Can of Man]

I don't see so much of a blood bath happening as escalation in social conflict etc. Culture wars if you will.
There will be a few riots, a few deaths here and there but nothing in the full scale. Heck, America should know about these too. A few cities have had some race riots and they were brutal.
I believe Leeds had a race riot as well though I don't know about the death toll.