Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

JOC said:
I believe you are right they are both terrorist organizations. ISIS is the most despicable of any ME organization at this time. However I believe they eventually will run their course or be defeated. At least as far as their effort towards building a permanent Caliphate.

Hezbollah leaves a bad taste in my mouth from their killing the (250 or 300) odd Marines in Lebanon some years back.

I am not so certain that the Ayatollahs in Iran are all that rational? Even though things have normalized a bit in Iran from a few years back. The country is effectively a theocracy.
Click to expand...

Props about the Marines. I never served but my Father-in-law was with French Paras in Beruit and narrowly missed getting killed himself that night. I know he'd agreed with you.

I also agree about ISIS, they have made too many enemies, there days are numbered, I just hope that day comes sooner rather than later otherwise more innocent of all races/faiths will die, the people are barbarians.

The Ayatollahs want to stay in power therefore they need to walk a very tight rope between starting a war with either one of the Sunni countries like Saudi Arabia, starting a war with Israel, or being overthrown in a coup by their own people. This is why you see the Ayatollahs hardline softening (and why hardliner Ahmadinajad was fired). The Ayatollahs want Iran to be a regional power, but they don't want to unleash Armageddon in order to get it.

The nuclear deal they brokered with Obama is a sign that they are at least willing to deal. I don't see what they gain by going the hard-line Islamic route.
 
lljadw said:
This is whisful-thinking founded on the refusal to admit that muslims are different from us .
Click to expand...

People have to be judged on an individual basis. An interesting note histories greatest murderers Hitler, Stalin and Mao were not men of faith.
 
lljadw said:
This is whisful-thinking founded on the refusal to admit that muslims are different from us .
Click to expand...


Hitler said the same thing about the Jews...when you demonize an entire culture out of hand that's a very dark path you are walking.

I can tell you that you are very different from most other people here at milforum as well, but nobody is suggesting that you be treated differently because of it.

As JOC said, people need to be treated on a individual basis, Muslims are individuals not clones.
 
Last edited:
lljadw said:
Your reading capacities are worsening every day : where did I say that slavery was correct ? I said that Lincoln was wrong when he said that the US could not last half slave,half free : the US were born half slave,half free .


Why would it be wonderful to eliminate the dictatorial regime of North Korea ? Of course you don't know the very bad results of the reunification of Germany for West Germany ,and a reunification of the both Koreas would even be worse for South Korea .It would cost thousands of billions .


And about the regime in NK,here also you are wrong :because you have the parochial,unwordly attitude of a lot of Americans that a dictatorial regime is always oppressing its whole population : this is wrong : the North Koreans are on the average reasonable satisfied with the regime (as were the Germans and the Soviets),because the regime has brought them law and order and material advance :they are better of than in 1950,1960,1970,etc : if their situation was worse,the regime would fall .

Why do you think that the Soviets supported the regime to the end ? Not because they were communists,but because in 1989 they were better of than in the past.
As a lot of Americans,you refuse to admit the truth,which is that a lot (maybe most) people prefer a dictator to democracy .It was so in the past, it is so today and it will always be so .

As Bertold Brecht said: erst kommt das Fressen und dan die Moral : first bread and than ethics .
Click to expand...

I want to see the sources supporting what you say about how the North Koreans and their perception of their own regime. Or are you basing this on your opinion about North Korea and its citizens?

So the Soviets had it better in 1989 than they had in the past decades? Can you provide with any sources that supports what you are claiming.
 
JOC said:
People have to be judged on an individual basis. An interesting note histories greatest murderers Hitler, Stalin and Mao were not men of faith.
Click to expand...


Wrong : people must be judged on their deeds: the average Muslim in and outsude the ME (thus also in the US and Europe) has proved his indifference to the atrocities of AQ and ISIS,he is proving his concealed sympathy for AQ and ISIS by not protesting against the atrocities of AQ and ISIS,by not preventing them,the average Muslim is unwilling to fight against ISIS:in Belgium 474 Muslims have gone to the ME to join ISIS, but NONE has volunteered to fight against ISIS.Muslims are sympathetic to each other against non Muslims .

The logical conclusion is that they are potential terrorists and must return to the ME and leave Europe and the US.On this point, Trump (for whom I have not much sympathy) is right .
 
Those who stick to their belief that Muslims are people as us,should read the article from Sheldon Figler in the Huffington POst from 3 march 2015 with as title :

Why does Iran want nuclear weapons ? An alarming possibility .

The end is striking :


"The Obama administration and State Department may find it inconceivable that a nation in our contemporary world would create a vast uranium enrichment capability ,much of it at hardened or underground locations,for the objective of bringing about an apocalytic event that will set the stage for the return of the 12th Imam or Mahdi.However, ignoring the words of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei (the author refers to a speech from Khamenei on july 9 2011)and transposing our own Western concepts onto Iran's motivation for creating its nuclear project is a perilous course for America and the world to pursue ."


Simplified : Muslims are not people as us .

For the return of the Mahdi,Khamenei is willing to sacrifice the lives of 40 million Iranians .The return of the Mahdi is nothing new,remember the story of Gordon in Sudan .
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
I want to see the sources supporting what you say about how the North Koreans and their perception of their own regime. Or are you basing this on your opinion about North Korea and its citizens?

So the Soviets had it better in 1989 than they had in the past decades? Can you provide with any sources that supports what you are claiming.
Click to expand...


Per capita GDP in Russia /SU (in dollars of 1980)

1913: 973

1987: 5950


Automobile production in the SU:


1950:362,985

1980: 2,199,200


And ,in 1950 there was no television in the SU, but in 1980,there were a lot of television sets .


Conclusion : at the end of the SU,live was better for the average citizen than in 1913, in 1938, in 1950,etc ...


To survive any dictatorship needs 3 things:


1) a secret police to crush possible opponents

2) a propaganda machine to highlight successes and conceal failres


3) SUCCESSES :without successes, a dictator is doomed .

If in 1938 the living standard in Germany was the same as in 1932 (= no economic success) national socialism was doomed .

It was the same in the SU :in 1953 the regime was able,without any possible dangerous results for its survival, to disband the Gulag and to send everyone (most common criminals) home.The power of the Cheka was curtailed,but the regime lasted an other 36 years .

It is the same in North Korea:live is better than in 1950 : no television in 1950,which means that there are less political opponents .
 
we warned you four years ago about returning the terrorists to your home when you closed your eyes and supported ISIS , Al-Nousra and other terrorists by gulf Arab states money and Turkish logistic help! didn't we!!!
 
hamidreza said:
we warned you four years ago about returning the terrorists to your home when you closed your eyes and supported ISIS , Al-Nousra and other terrorists by gulf Arab states money and Turkish logistic help! didn't we!!!
Click to expand...

We never supported ISIS, not once. We supported other groups in Syria thats true, but never ISIS.
 
Oh yes : Obama supported and still is supporting ISIS :

He invented the Free Syrian Army,of which the leader of ISIS (Abu Athen ) said in 2013 :we have good relations with our brothers in the FSA.

And, from a 2012 report of the DIA :

"If the situation unravels,there is the possibility (sic) of establishing a declared/undeclared Salafist principality in Eastern Syria (Hasaka and Der Zor) and this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want,in order to isolate the Syrian regime,which is considered the strategic depth of the Shia expansion (Iraq and Iran)."

Previously the document identified the "supporting powers " as "Western countries, Gulf States and Turkey" .

Source : How the US helped ISIS (by David Mizner) .
 
lljadw said:
Oh yes : Obama supported and still is supporting ISIS :

He invented the Free Syrian Army,of which the leader of ISIS (Abu Athen ) said in 2013 :we have good relations with our brothers in the FSA.
Click to expand...

The Free Syrian Army is fighting against both Assad and ISIS and as such is being supported by the US with supplies, training and air strikes. It is a collection of ex Syrian military, Muslims, Druze and Christian fighters.
 
There is no such thing as a Free Syrian Army : it is not free,it is not an army and I doubt that the majority are Syrians :the FSA is a collection of criminal gangs the ideology of which is very close to that of ISIS;there is no unified command (there are 9 groups that claimed to be the leaders),at the origin they were deserters of the Syrian army,later they received money from the US to fight against Assad,which they didn't,,and very soon they joined ISIS and brought with them the weapons and supplies they had received from the US .

Calling these criminals Free,Syrian, Army has as much value as calling the SU a people's democratic republic .


Essentially there is no difference between ISIS and the FSA: they are both criminals and hostile to the West .
 
If all Muslims are potential terrorists, are all Belgians potential to be like Marc Dutroux? It can be so wrong to demonize a group of people for what a few do. However, if we demonize one group, we might need to demonize all groups, not only religious groups.
 
This is the usual apples/oranges comparison .

Tens of thousands of people (Muslims/non Muslims ) have been murdered by ISIS IN THE NAME of the Islam in and outside the ME .

The attitude of the Muslim community was /is,indifference, silent approval,joining ISIS.

If the 1.5 billion Muslims had wanted, ISIS would not have lasted a month .

As such the Muslim community is coresponsible for the ISIS atrocities .

We have the right to demand from the Muslim community a clear answer to ISIS :the Muslims must declare war on ISIS and destroy it .

If the Muslims refuse to do it, we have the right to consider them as the accomplices of ISIS and to treat them as such .

After WWII the Germans said : Wir haben es nicht gewuss,but that was not accepted;the Muslims can not say : wir haben es nicht gewusst .
 
lljadw said:
This is the usual apples/oranges comparison .

Tens of thousands of people (Muslims/non Muslims ) have been murdered by ISIS IN THE NAME of the Islam in and outside the ME .

The attitude of the Muslim community was /is,indifference, silent approval,joining ISIS.

If the 1.5 billion Muslims had wanted, ISIS would not have lasted a month .

As such the Muslim community is coresponsible for the ISIS atrocities .

We have the right to demand from the Muslim community a clear answer to ISIS :the Muslims must declare war on ISIS and destroy it .

If the Muslims refuse to do it, we have the right to consider them as the accomplices of ISIS and to treat them as such .

After WWII the Germans said : Wir haben es nicht gewuss,but that was not accepted;the Muslims can not say : wir haben es nicht gewusst .
Click to expand...

Naw, rather a comparison between apples and pears.

With your logic, I can hold you accountable for what other Belgians do, Marc Dutroux included. I can even include what other Westerners do and make you accountable for their crimes and atrocities.
 
lljadw said:
Dutroux did not commit his crimes in the name of the Western civilisation .
Click to expand...

Although, he is a part of the Western civilization, hence he can be included similar as all other atrocities committed by Westerners. If I want I can accuse you for what he did and what all others have done in the past.
 
Someone who denies the coresponsability of the German people for the Holocaust can be rightly considered as a neo-nazi.

Someone who denies the coresponsability of the Muslim community for the murders of ISIS can be rightly considered as an agent of ISIS .
 
I had nothing to do with the lynching and ownership of slaves in the South, do you think that because I'm white (maybe) and live in the Southern USA (maybe).. that I'm a member of the KKK simply because I deny having anything to do with that?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top