Capt Frogman
Brit Pack (Troop Commander)
You're an idiot. A bigoted one at that.
Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)
You're an idiot. A bigoted one at that.
Totally besides the point .
Do you deny that the Germans were coresponsible for the atrocities of the Kristallnacht ?
Yes or no .
Backinblack
Active member
Interesting article
http://mil.today/2015/Syria27/
Why militants of the Islamic State kidnap children, what they do with kids in training camps, what is youngsters’ role in various conflicts of the 20th century – find the answers in the following material prepared by Voennoe.RF.
http://mil.today/2015/Syria27/
Why militants of the Islamic State kidnap children, what they do with kids in training camps, what is youngsters’ role in various conflicts of the 20th century – find the answers in the following material prepared by Voennoe.RF.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
No it's not. What Sara tries to explain to you so even you can comprehend it is; you can't demand people taking the responsibility for things they haven't done.
You are responsible for what the Belgians did in Congo! All Germans did not participate in pogroms against Jews and others. For being reading a lot of history, you don't learn much, do you?
The Belgian Congo is often cited as the most brutal and exploitative colonial regime. Under Belgium - King Leopold > = 10 million native Congolese died - killed_butchered. Belgium is a very small country to have perpetrated such a colossal atrocity.
Where as in the case of the murderous dogs called ISIS, they have killed ~ 250 thousand and the population of the ME is in the 100's of millions.
Just to show you how ridiculous it is to make these kind of comparisons far fewer Belgium's were responsible for far more deaths than any individuals in ISIS. In reality many-most people in the ME and Belgium had nothing to do with either atrocity.
There is some truth in this that many Germans looked the other way. However they did so out of fear of being arrested, tortured and executed by the Gestapo. Remember > 200 thousand Germans were killed for political reason by the Nazi regime. Many of these because they resisted the Nazi's policies.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
As what JOC stated, the Germans didn't dare to resist. Easy for you to demand people living in a totalitarian state to resist it. But you wouldn't resist that kind of state, would you?
NO : the figure of 10 million is an invention from a US journalist from ...the NYT = a biased person who knows nothing bur talks about everything . What happened during the Congo Free State (when most Europeans were not Belgians) was not worse than were doing the British in NZL, the French in Algeria, the US in the Philippines,etc,etc:it was the standard colonial practice .
Other point is that most Belgians, europeans and Americans were not aware of what happened in the colonies,while every Muslim knows very well what is doing ISIS .
No : the story of 200000 Germans murdered by the Nazis for political reasons in a postwar invention to rehabilitate the Germans .
At the start of the Kristallnacht,there were only 6000 prisonners in the concentration camps .
The fear of being arrested is an excuse ,is an attenuating circumstance, but it can not deny the truth .
Besides : the Muslims have NOT the excuse,attenuating circumstance : no one would arrest Muslims who would demonstrate against ISIS, not in the Muslim countries, not in Europe : 130 people have been murdered in Paris ;there are 250000 Muslims in Paris : have you heard any reaction of them,have you seen 60000 Muslims demonstrating in France ? (60000 is 1 % of the French muslim population ) .
Where are the 6 million Muslims in the US ? Are they demonstrating against the murders in San Bernardino ?
NO : the Muslim community remains indifferent,inpassible while every day ,publicly,ISIS is committing atrocities against Muslims and non Muslims .
Where were the millions of Muslims to demonstrate while ISIS burned alive a Jordanian POW ? When ISIS teached children of 5 years to behead people? There are hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Belgium : none was expressing his horror,they remained silent,when 130 people were murdered in Paris:they always remain silent .
And,they can not invoke as excuse the fear of being arrested by the ISIS secret police .
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
I have heard reactions from Muslims, heard about "Not in Our Name"? You wouldn't hear them, even if they were screaming in front of you because it would contradict your fascistic beliefs.
No the Congo was the single worse colonial atrocity to date. In 1904, a British shipping agent, Edmund Morel, formed the Congo Reform Association, which publicized the human toll of Leopold's rule. Finally, under British pressure, Leopold sold Congo to Belgium in 1908. In 1919, a Belgian commission estimated that Congo's population was half what it was in 1879. Atrocities were curbed but continued up to 1960 when Belgium finally relinquished control of the Congo.
Sara
Shepherdess
You have a lot of nerve telling me to answer your question with a "yes or no", especially when you don't bother answering mine.
What do you think about the Germans who helped the Jews, and there must be many more which we're not aware. There were many who tried and did save lives just as there are things going on now which we'll not be aware until later.. years from now.
YES, ISIS is a sick group of things.. I can't even call them human, who are evil and should be destroyed. What you're saying is that a whole group of individuals who are Muslim should suffer the same. For all we know, ISIS hates Muslims as much at it openly hates Christians and is using religion as an excuse.. turning religions against each other. Sick individuals who are so eaten up inside with hate that all they can think of is spreading their own pain to others. In circumstances such as yourself it seems to be working.
It's a disease called fear and it's spreading like wildfire when we begin blaming everyone for the actions of individuals who obviously have no regard for human life and are even using innocent children to assist in something so despicable most human beings can't fathom.
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I am very honoured by your insults ,they only prove that you have no arguments,what's to be expected from a member of the Muslim lobby .
Sara
Shepherdess
What pray tell is "Muslim Lobby"?
OH... I see.... well.. you may as well call me "International Lobby" as I WILL say something when I see a bigot on a forum.
And I'll also tell you that I went back and deleted one of those paragraphs, not because I don't feel that way but because I thought it a little harsh; but since you seem to enjoy it so much.. have at it.
OH... I see.... well.. you may as well call me "International Lobby" as I WILL say something when I see a bigot on a forum.
And I'll also tell you that I went back and deleted one of those paragraphs, not because I don't feel that way but because I thought it a little harsh; but since you seem to enjoy it so much.. have at it.
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No,no : you should not believe what Morel was saying : he was a British:x left wing:x journalist,from French origin,and before and during WWI pro German ,thus almost a traitor.
You should also not believe what Hochschild did write: an American:x left wing :xjournalist:x.
The late Belgian professor Stengers,very critical of Leopold II,and professor at the left wing ULB (university of Brussels),Belgian equivalent of Harvard,has debunked what Hochschild said .The book of Hochschild contains falsifications and a lot of inaccuracies .
1)there were atrocities,but they were inevitable, not exceptional and on a small scale .
2)the claim from Hochschild that between 1885 and 1920 the population of Congo decreased by 50 % is
unproven : Hochschild admitted that his claim was founded on estimates
most unlikely : no demograph will say that Congo had in 1885 a population of 20 million;no African country had a population of 20 million in 1885.
3) the claim of the hands that were cut of is a myth which later was used by Morel : the business of Leopold was mainly commercial,and he had no interest to order to cut of hands from Congolese;there was a big shortage of workers (whole regions were depopulated by ilness,war and slave trade) ,thus why mutilate potential workers ?
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Spot on.
A chap I worked with many years ago was stating that most Germans knew about the concentration camps and said nothing, therefore they are as guilty as the NAZI's.
I replied, "If they had spoken out against the Concentration camps they and their families would have been arrested thrown into a Concentration Camp, starved worked or beaten to death. What would you have done??"
I never did get an answer.
You can't use estimations,because estimations are only guesses,founded on ...nothing : Casement was talking about 3 million victims, Hochschild about 10 million .Staley claimrd that in 1885 there were 42 million people living in Congo,which was totally ridiculous .
There is NO proof for these figures .
And,if the population of Congo decreased by X million in 40 years, that does not mean that this was the human toll of Leopold's rule : it is perfecty possible that without the colonisation, the population of Congo also would have decreased .
Congo was 2.4 million square km,not explored: there were only a few hundred European officials in Congo :how could they be responsible for the death of 10 million people,if such a thing had happened ?
How many Belgium's expressed horror at the atrocities that occurred in the Congo? You seem to deny one of the worse atrocities of all time. Just do a simple google and the sources are very numerous pointing to this grave injustice. Do I blame you for these crimes, no of course not.
In the same way blame ISIS and their supporters for their crimes and not the people in the ME who are not connected to the crimes. This is where you are grossly mistaken.