It might be different if you were an American. They have regularly taken Americans hostages since the hostage crisis in 81 and continue to do so right to the present day.
Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)
It might be different if you were an American. They have regularly taken Americans hostages since the hostage crisis in 81 and continue to do so right to the present day.
1)You know what happened at San Bernardino? And,this is only a beginning :there is no reason why,what's happening in Europe , will not happen in the US .
2)That's your fundamental flaw : people in Turkey, Egypt, etc..are TOTALLY different from other people in the world and especially from people living in the West :the ideals of the Islam are totally incompatible with those of the West,and that's why the average Muslim is hostile to the West .
3)You talked to people who live in Egypt,etc...,who knewEnglish (a minority) and who,of course, were answering what they knew you would ask ,and were fortifiying your bias,after all you were a tourist,and noone is saying the truth to a tourist,because noone likes a tourist,but everyone likes the money of a tourist .
4)The average Muslim remains impassible while ISIS is committing horrible atrocities against other Muslims,thus, why should they react negatively when ISIS is committing atrocities against people who are for the average Muslim only unclean pigs = non Muslims ?
5)A lot of people in the West (especially in the US) are that convinced of the superiority of their political/social system that they can't understand that the majority of the world refuses to adopt this system : the truth is very simple : the West constitutes only a very small part of the world population and the majority of the world population is indifferent/hostile to the enlightenment and the lessons of the Founding Fathers;what more is: the Third World (the majority of the world population) has started WWIII= the invasion of the West .
Sure they view us as the great Satan, as well as an ally to Israel. Note of course we are also an ally to the other side as well Saudi Arabia, Kuwait UAE, Jordan, etc.
lljadw you really have to drop this WW3 thing. It sound preposterous and makes you out to be an delusional extremist. Sorry for the name calling but I'm being honest. Terrorist attacks from groups based in the ME have been going on since the 70's, even earlier. They have gotten more frequent, but likely culminated with the 9-11 attack. Still the total deaths to N Americans, Europeans and Africans is in the lower thousands. This hardly constitutes a world war. In WW2 ~60 million died in 6 years in the European theater alone.
Yes some people may not accept democracy, but some ME countries will take Tunisia and Turkey for example. One cannot lump all ME peoples together as enemy's of the west. Also to say the average Muslim remain impassive while ISIS devastates his land and livelihood is ludicrous. Many of these average Muslims are held at gunpoint to work the oil wells and work in power and munitions plants. they are beaten and shot if the show the least resistance. They hate ISIS,
You can't qualify a war as world war by using as norm the number of casualties .
Turkey is not a democracy.
Yes,the average Muslim remained impassible while ISIS was teaching children of 5 year to behead people :there were no millions demonstrating in Turkey or Iran,or Egypt (countries with each 70/80 million inhabitants).And it was the same in Europe: there were no mass demonstrations from Muslims protesting against the terrorist attacks in Europe,what happened was that thousands of Muslims were going to the ME to join ISIS .
Europe is invaded by Muslims ,their presence (10 % of the population in France, in Britain,in Germany) constitutes an electoral power which prevents any effective action against ISIS : Germany will send 1200 men and 6 aircraft to "fight" against ISIS,but they have not the right to join the fighting,and,even this meaningless gesture is to much for the central council of Muslims in Germany .
France sends 26 aircraft (not all fighters) this also is meaningless,because Hollande can not survive politically without the Muslim vote .
And within one or two generations, it will be the same in the US .
There is a third world war going on,because (as even the NYT was forced to admit) :the south is going northward,and if we continue to do nothing,we will be swallowed up .
We are as the Roman Empire in the 4th Century AC,when the Barbarians invaded the Empire .
If we do nothing,we will disappear,as Rome disappeared .
Turkey is not a democracy.
Yes,the average Muslim remained impassible while ISIS was teaching children of 5 year to behead people :there were no millions demonstrating in Turkey or Iran,or Egypt (countries with each 70/80 million inhabitants).And it was the same in Europe: there were no mass demonstrations from Muslims protesting against the terrorist attacks in Europe,what happened was that thousands of Muslims were going to the ME to join ISIS .
Europe is invaded by Muslims ,their presence (10 % of the population in France, in Britain,in Germany) constitutes an electoral power which prevents any effective action against ISIS : Germany will send 1200 men and 6 aircraft to "fight" against ISIS,but they have not the right to join the fighting,and,even this meaningless gesture is to much for the central council of Muslims in Germany .
France sends 26 aircraft (not all fighters) this also is meaningless,because Hollande can not survive politically without the Muslim vote .
And within one or two generations, it will be the same in the US .
There is a third world war going on,because (as even the NYT was forced to admit) :the south is going northward,and if we continue to do nothing,we will be swallowed up .
We are as the Roman Empire in the 4th Century AC,when the Barbarians invaded the Empire .
If we do nothing,we will disappear,as Rome disappeared .
Of course the US. Iran doesn't like ISIS. They are Shi'ites ISIS is Sunni both of whom hate one and have done so since about the Middle Jurassic Period.
screw the political garbage wipe ISIS from the face of the earth. ISIS is a state regardless of if we want to act like it exists or not.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
This is where I think you have missed the point, certainly support for Israel plays a part but not a great one even the Palestinian opinion on the matter indicate that it so much about being supportive of Israel but that you are actively supporting Israeli actions that are displacing and killing Palestinians on a daily basis and protecting them at the international level while they do it.
The part I think you have completely failed to understand is "Allies of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Jordan etc." because you are assuming that being allied to the governments of these countries makes you allied to the people of those countries but missed the part where those governments are not all that popular with their own people who see them as little more than oppressive dictatorships.
Surely it is not all that hard to understand why you are not safe outside your borders when the people of these nations see you as supporting and maintaining their oppressors.
I think your rather black and white view is also indicated by your comments that I am "anti-American" yet I can honestly say I haven't met an American I didn't like but I find your governments foreign policy to be appalling.
I don't see it happen before january 2017,and if Hillary becomes president not before january 2021.
About Iran : I disagree : the hostility between Sunni and Shii has not the importance a lot of people in the West (who never heard of Sunni and Shii till a few weeks ago) are claiming : when in 1980 Saddam attacked Shii Iran,his army consisted mainly of Shii.
It is obvious that Iran is behind ISIS : ISIS is disturbing the statu quo in the ME,and there is only one country in the ME that want to change the statu quo : IRAN .
Iran is supporting ISIS in Iraq and Syria (who unless Iran is delivering weapons,etc to ISIS? ) and supports the Shii government of Iraq and the Alawite government of Syria . A win/win situation for Iran .
With the support of the Obama administration, Iran's plans to dominate the ME and to destroy Israel are progressing, very quickly .
And the plan to dominate the ME date from the time of the Shah .
1st off Turkey has 3 branches of government that are all elected.
The people of Egypt supported the military in a big way when they replaced the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood organization. Better to have safety of a military government then a democratically elected government that lied and turned on it's own people.
I do believe your argument for a 3rd world war is very weak. You are merely stating some facts interlaced mostly with your opinions and calling it a world war.
In the US way over 10% of the population is Hispanic's some of these are gang members, drug dealers and gun runners. Many live in ghetto's. Do we lump them all together as an enemy of the USA, ridiculous. This sounds like what you are proposing for immigrant Muslims. BTW I do support screening the potential immigrants for potential terrorist.
This is exactly what the Nazi's did to the Jews , Gypsies and Slavs murdering > 20 million of them in less than 6 years. They were labeled as enemies to the state. Are you proposing a modern repeat? Nonsense such crimes most never be repeated!
Last edited:
Let me ask you with the young and more educated Iranians do you really believe they support the religious terrorist government that has ruled with an Iron hand for > 30 years. Where basic freedoms are nonexistence.
Also how many Saudi's have you spoken to? I have known quote a few both in Academia and in the military setting and they were very proud of their country and happy with their government.
Do remember that our government has done more to help people providing more aid and relief to people in mneed than any other nation on the planet.
Last edited:
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I have no idea what I do know is that much like the USA who's government I dislike, it is not up to me to tell people how they should be governed.
As much as I may not like some of Iran's practices it is up to the Iranian people to determine what they will and wont accept and if they are "content" then that is fine with me and if I ever get to go there I will do what I do in every other country and stay within their rules.
But surely you accept that those who have prospered within a system are more likely to be positive about that system than those who haven't.
I could easily say the same thing about all of the Iranians I have met as they have almost all been well educated people from government departments but logic tells me that they are not necessarily a good cross section of the countries people.
Do you remember that your government has also supported more misery, oppression and corruption in the name of ideology than any other nation on the planet as well.
Lets face it who was it that put the Shah of Iran in power or enacted coups in South and Central America that lead to murderous dictatorships do honestly think that a bag of rice and a few Burger King outlets is enough wash away the implementation, arming and funding of governments that slaughtered their own people by the hundreds of thousands.
Why do you think after that Iranians, Palestinians, South Americans or Iraqi's to name a few would even tolerate you after the mess and misery your government has inflicted on them in your name over the past 70 years yet strangely enough the vast majority of them still bear you no ill will.
Worst of all the entire western world has simply sat by shrugged, let it happen and consoled itself with the idea of "better dead than red" so really is it that hard to understand how the likes of ISIS come about?
Last edited:
You are presumptuous. Talking to the people vs. what you think - read and assumed are 2 different things. I go with the real thing when it comes from a good cross section of individuals.
I’m sure your anti-American tirade could go on forever. We went thru this debate just a short while back. To avoid senseless repetition I will simply state Your words speak for themselves and require no counter argument they are completely one-sided and ludicrous. A bag of rice “really”.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Ah yes the if you dont agree i'm great you are "Anti-American" fall back position, if you want to delude yourself that the reason people don't like you is purely because they hate your "freedoms" then go right ahead but as long as you refuse to face up to what is done in your name then don't expect things to change.
You are saying you think that installing and supporting despotic regimes that are responsible for the deaths of peoples families and the destruction of their lives can be countered with money?
I have news for you and it is all bad, time to remove your head from the sand and look at an over all picture, at best I would say you are naive at worst willfully ignorant of how people react to your (aka your governments) actions.
Last edited:
No this is you putting your words in my mouth. If you recall I never claimed the history of our great nation to be blameless. It’s that you have a passion for exaggeration concerning any negative aspect of our great nations history. It is you who fail to see the total viewpoint and instead focus on the partial viewpoint. I.e.: anything and everything negative about our great nation’s history and foreign affairs.
You criticize the Shaw of Iran, but embrace the Ayatollahs who were at least as murderous as the Shaw ever was. You embrace the so called red revolutions saying where the US helped to install these murderous governments to counter these leftist. How many millions died – killed by N Korea. How many more would have died if they got their murderous hands on the south. How many were killed by the Columbian guerillas in their reign of terror. What about Grenada, Haiti, west and central Africa. At least the US tried in Somali what did New Zealand do? Have you no sense of balance man.
About immigration , I know that a lot of Americans are sticking to the claim (better: illusion) that immigration is good,but they are blamed by what is happening :if 10000 Hispanics are immigrating, they will adapt to the autochtones, but when millions of Hispanics are coming ?
The Latinisation of the US is a deadly danger for its survival:what will happen in 2076 when states as California,Arizona, New Mexico,etc, will have a Hispanic majority which will consider it self no longer as Americans, but as Mexicans,and will secede ?
About the Muslims : history is teaching us that they will not adapt to non Muslims (some times ago a leader of the Texan Muslims said that they were above the American law and that they were bound only by the Islam law ).
The mass migration from the South (and especially from the Muslims) is a deadly danger for the West .It is a colonisation .
The ideals of the Islam and of the West are incompatible .Thus,we should not accept the idea that Muslim immigration is good for Europe, is good for the US .
The average Muslim is hostile to the West,he hates us, thus,his place is not amongst us .
Of course,the Third World is hostile to freedom and liberty;only naive Americans think that the whole world is longing for what the Founding Fathers worked out, invented .
Most of people in the world are satisfied with despotic regimes .Those living in Iraq, Libya,Syria, the SU ,Germany, North Korea, were/are satisfied with the ruling despotes.They would laugh when Patrick Henry would say : give me liberty or give me death .
This is not correct : most Turkish judges are appointed,besides, even in the US a lot of judges are appointed = federal judges .
It is also irrelevant : in the Third Reich,parliament also was elected,and no one will use this as a proof that the Third Reich was democratic .
In Belgium judges are appointed,which is not a proof that Belgium is not democratic (not that I am saying that Belgium is democratic
)