World Tank Ranking

Alexin_Cobra said:
I've seen them, I accidently met alot of friends that are in the PRC Army during my yearly visit, since the kungfu school I attend is right outside some army barracks. They have way mor than one type of tanks. They range from T-52s through T-90 They no longer buy weapons from Russia, they rather build their own versions. The later versions T-72 and up are refitted in China. They even try to mimic M1 Abrums style turrets on the new type 90's in CN
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There is still a significant difference between appearance and actuall level of effectivness.

The best that China has atm is an upgunned T-72 version, they gave it a pimp new turret which still has relatively weak protection, the only real change is the indigenous gun which has superior stabilization to the notorious russian versions, at current time China has nothing even close to a modern MBT.

Also they base 90% of their tech on Russia because US and Europe refuses to sell them for obvious reasons so whatever they do get is purchased through private parties, spied out or retro-engineered.
 
Rorke said:
There is still a significant difference between appearance and actuall level of effectivness.

The best that China has atm is an upgunned T-72 version, they gave it a pimp new turret which still has relatively weak protection, the only real change is the indigenous gun which has superior stabilization to the notorious russian versions, at current time China has nothing even close to a modern MBT.

Also they base 90% of their tech on Russia because US and Europe refuses to sell them for obvious reasons so whatever they do get is purchased through private parties, spied out or retro-engineered.
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Actually you or I will not know the specs on the weapon systems because they keep there stuff secret from information mediums. In a way that is smart. That will always keep their enemy guesing. The very hard and demorallizing to fight an enemy with unknow tactics.
 
Alexin_Cobra said:
Actually you or I will not know the specs on the weapon systems because they keep there stuff secret from information mediums. In a way that is smart. That will always keep their enemy guesing. The very hard and demorallizing to fight an enemy with unknow tactics.
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Yes we wont know exact specs but we know for example what cannon is it using, we know where did the hulls and armor plating came from, we also have some rudimentary info on the optics and misc, China doesnt have advanced military technology so knowing some facts its pretty safe to assume they're atm unable to pop out a modern MBT, for example we know given the technology transfers that their tanks are all equivalents of their soviet counterparts being based on them, atm China has nothing beyond T-72 though i'll admit it looks cool.
 
No when it comes to advanced materials and tech that is essential for this sort of stuff, the Chinese don't have it. Believe me, I don't live too far away from the whole metal industry and I can tell you the Chinese can produce simple things at very low prices but as far as the advanced things come, they can't touch it yet.
 
Rorke said:
Yes we wont know exact specs but we know for example what cannon is it using, we know where did the hulls and armor plating came from, we also have some rudimentary info on the optics and misc, China doesnt have advanced military technology so knowing some facts its pretty safe to assume they're atm unable to pop out a modern MBT, for example we know given the technology transfers that their tanks are all equivalents of their soviet counterparts being based on them, atm China has nothing beyond T-72 though i'll admit it looks cool.
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Well, don't put it passed them. Last year they fielded their own fighter Jet. It did not share designs with any other known jet fighter. They do have alot of T-80s. I saw them with my own eyes. You can't tell if you have not been in the country mingling with Chinese soldiers. You think they don't have tecknology, but thats your mistake. Yeah they are not currently equal to the US but they are getting there fast. While the US is slowing down due to a recession and general laziness The Chinese will surpase us. Things are cheap in China because they put low value on everything because they have the highest production and most qnantity.
 
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what jet is that? the J-10? It shares alot with the Lavi and was probably copied with or wit out lisence.
 
SHERMAN said:
what jet is that? the J-10? It shares alot with the Lavi and was probably copied with or wit out lisence.
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How would you know, did you help build it? Were you in the country at the time of the test flights. Do you have any friends in the Chinese military? Are you and expert on aviation?
 
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How would you know, did you help build it? Were you in the country at the time of the test flights. Do you have any friends in the Chinese military? Are you and expert on aviation?
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do a google for both planes, than a google for israel+china+arms sales.
 
Alexin_Cobra said:
Well, don't put it passed them. Last year they fielded their own fighter Jet. It did not share designs with any other known jet fighter. They do have alot of T-80s. I saw them with my own eyes. You can't tell if you have not been in the country mingling with Chinese soldiers. You think they don't have tecknology, but thats your mistake. Yeah they are not currently equal to the US but they are getting there fast. While the US is slowing down due to a recession and general laziness The Chinese will surpase us. Things are cheap in China because they put low value on everything because they have the highest production and most qnantity.
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Their own fighter jet is cute, it looks awesome and it uses a lot of the fulcrum modernisation package so while its an effective modern fighter its still nothing special, the bulk of their airforce consists of antiquated aircraft.

As for their tanks, they do not have T-80s as such, they have equivalents of indigenous design but still subpar to soviet designs ( not to mention western ones ).

How do we know ? Like i said we have specifics on their equipment, not all but enough of it, if you want start a new discussion i'll post images and sources to all i can find online, i agree China is modernizing fast but they're a long long way away from being a modern military and their tank force quite frankly sucks.
 
SHERMAN said:
do a google for both planes, than a google for israel+china+arms sales.
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Google doesn't tell you everything. There is alot of classified information about the US's M1A2s and Bradelys that I know are not posted on the interenet.(thank God) So, if the US is secretive about some specs of vehicles then I know China is very secretive about its own specs. But I know you want to discredit them in everything so why don't you or anyone want to start a war with China? It would be a way to prove your point.
 
But I know you want to discredit them in everything so why don't you or anyone want to start a war with China? It would be a way to prove your point.
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I think you are going a bit far. First of all, I donwt have any need to discredit them. Saying that my country sold China weapon systems certinly isent helping me. However, the rumores were and still are that china used alot of israeli and russian tch o that plane.

As for starting a war with China, they are an idustrial powerhouse, have unlimited manpower, and they make OK weapons for them selves. 5000 OK tanks can beat 1000 exellent tanks. I would not like to put my Merkava MK2b against 5 T-62s, even though I think that my tank is vastly better.
 
Alexin_Cobra said:
listen man, the M1A1 uses a turbine engine not a jet engine. When the tank is hit in it's rear engine compartment, it just disables the engine. It does not explode. I know this because I've been in a tank unit working with the vehicles for 4 years and served a tour north of Bahgdad. The Brits only had the peaceful Basra area which didn't have many IED attacks if any at all. So, the Challenger 2 has not really had enough battle testing.
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That is not a true statement in regards to Challie 2s not see their fair share of IED attacks.

Also, what aircraft engine is the Lycoms based off of.
 
Alexin_Cobra said:
You can't even rank the Leopard II, because it will never see any real combat. When was the last time the Germans seen a battle? My point exactly.
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So how many countries operate Leo 2 series tanks besides Germany, and are they not participating in hostile operations.
 
Bacara said:
ok, the russians have a proven explosive reactive armor that will stop the latest abrams round, also russian training is improving, and are going into a mostly volunteer army, which helps alot. The tanks that we fought in iraq are cheap export models that are not even comparable to the russian versions. Finnally in a large scale war, like a US vs Russia, or US vs China, as Lenin once said "Quantity has a quality all it own" no i not a communist
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The Russians have not proven anything, especially the capability to stop a M829A2 or A3 round. Which ERA tile arrangement will perform this task.
 
SHERMAN said:
Im sorry, bacara, but im afraid your wrong. Reactive armor is made to defeat HEAT rounds, in the manner described by hokieSMG. You might be thinking about Active armor systems, or active defense systems....
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Not entirely true, latest generation ERA tiles do in fact have KE defeating capability, especially for older KE projectiles.
 
Alexin_Cobra said:
the RPG 7 is not affective to many of our bradleys and tanks]
my brigade has come under RPG attacks all the time in 2007 and we have not lost any Bradleys or tanks to an RPG 7. The RPG 29 was not used in the IRaq war. But since you were not there and didn't do anything ,you just speaking off the top of your head. I had to research the RPG 29 and brief my platoon prior to entering Iraq just in case we came in contact with it there. That weapon was only used in war between Hesbula and Israel. It was fire at weak spot on the side of a Merkarva Tank
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Be thankful that the insurgents do not know how to operate them properly, a RPG 7 can cause a mobility kill on a Merkave or M1 series.
 
Alexin_Cobra said:
Oh and you are not annoying with you down playing written facts or reports and continuing to call me names? If you are such a brainiac then why can't you come up with written facts? I didn't critize Israelis, I just said they were not there in Iraq. Its not that I care about opinions but you don't let it go. You defend your guys or whatever, I'm just siding with the report.
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He is not calling you names, I have trained with enough British soldiers to know this, please lighten up.
 
Alexin_Cobra said:
Oh, you now reporter or analyst now? :spam2: You just admitted you were not an expert already, so drop the subject and quit answering me.


The U.S. has a powerful diesel engine made for it but contracts :read:prevent us from fielding them
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Are you stating that we cannot run diesel in our engines.:roll:
 
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