While i do not wish to target sources Wikipedia is not the most reliable of them, not to mention russian military has a long history of bloated claims that were blown together with their hardware in Chechenya and Afganistan.
World Tank Ranking
Alexin_Cobra
Active member
Were you there to witness an attack by an RPG 7? No and neither was he. So, arguing with you is like aguing with children. I'll be your myth buster.LOL, now your saying Sherman is a liar?
How to win friends in influence people lol
Quite frankly, he did shoot your argument down in flames regarding the RPG7.
Alexin_Cobra
Active member
Thank you. My point exactly. Plus the US Army does not post any classified information regarding weapon systems. That gives us an edge and keeps the enemy guesing.
Well he is right in the fact that RPG-7 can mission kill any tank, in fact during the Israeli action in Lebanon many Merkavas ended up dead in the road with tracks and wheels mangled by an RPG-7 shot but the hull is completely impervious, in fact there's a vid on youtube somewhere where a Merkava IV take's over sixteen side shots from RPG-7s and RPG-9s coming out just fine.
As to the pictures the first one indeed fell off the cliff and the second picture is the result of a massive IED explosion directly beneath the tank, there was an article about it on CNN i believe, there was a pile of mortar shells, aerial bombs and god knows what else all wired to blow.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
You don't have a valid argument old chap, you lost what little credibility you had by accusing British tankers of cowardice by your “With the crew cowering inside”, then stated that Sherman was telling lies, with half truths THEN your "false crap" statement.
Were you there when the Challenger was stranded? No you wasn't, neither was I.
I'm not claiming I was anywhere, yet you claim by your outlandish statements that you know everything there is to know about anti tank weaponry and armour. Your highly obnoxious attitude that everything you say is 100% correct is ludicrous in the extreme.
As for your “aguing” with children, I have heard five year olds who were a lot more informative, concise and lucid then you are. Your expertise and command of the English language and spelling is atrocious to say the least, doesn't your computer have a spell checker? If it has, then I suggest that you learn how to use it.
Be my myth buster? LOL I'd take anything you say with a huge pinch of salt and demand a second opinion. In conclusion, you don't have anything to teach Challenger crews, myself or anyone else for that matter.
Whats the matter, don't you like the fact that American tanks as well as just about every tank built including the Challenger2 is not 100% impervious to attack?
I thought you were an intelligent chap, able to get into an informative and civil discussion. It seems I was somewhat mistaken.
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I think you may want to use better manners, and a little more respect. Look into my profile and understand what I am and am not trained, versed and capable in.
RPG 7 and RPG 29 are both capable anti tank weapons. These weapons can penetrate any tank in the world, given they are fired at the correct angle, at the right place on the tank. Im not saying this as a theory, Im saying this as a fact. Think over every part of the M1A2, Leopard 2A6, Merkava MK4, let alone the Bradly and other IFV. If you can honestly tell me every area is protected to 700mm RHS, tell me Im wrong. If not, which you cant, apologize for calling me a child.
Ah, thats on another thread...
Thats fine. However, Im not talking about russian propganda, Im talking about very good info. And also you are wrong about the penetration. No tank in the world is armored up to 700mm RHS in every single spot, it would be far to heavy to move. Im not talking aout of a vacume here IVe seen tanks that were hit. It is true that in most cases RPG 7 and even 29 will not penetrate, but some cases they will. Penetration is a statistic games and sometimes they roll double 6s...
The cases where they do penetrate can only be classified as freak accidents rather than a right angle/right distance standard, as for 700mm RHS for RPG 7 treat it with a grain of salt remember that armor is composition as well as thickness so a 2A6 turret will be levels of magnitude above a welded T-90s turret, thus far i have seen one documented case where an Abrams was actually penetrated just above the track so its more of a freak hit than anything else.
The discussion is moot though since you can still render a tank useless if you put out the optics or tracks and that can be done even with a WW2 Bazooka ( of course its easier said than done ).
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
It is a constant battle in warfare to upgrade and keep one step ahead of ones enemy. Whatever armour, weapon or protection is designed, someone somewhere is going to design a counter measure. As I said before, terrorists are not idiots, they will adapt tactics to suit most if not all situations. They will continuously seek out weak spots and then take advantage of those spots. History has shown time and time again, guerrilla and terrorist warfare are of the hardest forms of warfare to counter and overcome.
Again, I will say, “Never underestimate anyone, you WILL come a cropper.”
You wont get an apology Sherman, I've meet his type all too often during my service.
Again, I will say, “Never underestimate anyone, you WILL come a cropper.”
You wont get an apology Sherman, I've meet his type all too often during my service.
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Could you please name the warhead which achieves this fantastic claims ? I mean i heard about this from various russian sites and magazines but quite frankly its iffy.
http://www.fotka.pl/forum/read.php?f=4&t=11390605
7VR is given an "over 600mm after reactive armor" and thats optimal conditions which mean both optimal range and stationary target and a 'frontal' hit.
These conditions are virtually impossible to attain in a combat situation where a target will often be either at an angle or both at an angle and at motion.
http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl02-e.htm
So again typical russian crap, unless you achieve a 90 degree hit and optimal range ( approximately 100 meters ) and the target will be hit square on at such angle then yes your tandem warhead will penetrate however the greater the angle the less penetration so i stand my ground that in combat conditions you can shoot dozens of 7VR warheads at virtually every side of a modern MBT and the tank wont even stop.
What the russians did not mention is that hitting sloped armor generally causes the warhead to change the impact angle which is the reason why it has so very little use against modern tanks, nominal penetration values mean squat ( and none of them is 700mm either ).
listen, all penetration figures are given at very certain angles. Usually we are talking 60 degrees. I cannot give you sources as I dont have them here, and if I did I couldent post them. Ive read countless intell reports about all AT weapons made in Russia and used by Hezballah and Syria. The point I was making to beguin with is that any HEAT weapon is a threat to any vhiecle.Some are better some are worse. Ive seen the penetration results in the war and trust me the RPG 29 is a nasty little bugger.
Well then i agree any AT weapon can be potentially damaging, hell even a PIAT could given certains statistical odds put out a tanks engine or tracks, its just that its rather unlikely.
Bacara
Active member
no most german generals, including guderian hated the tiger and pather, prefering the mark 4, they were slow, unreliable, costly, and OVER engineered, simpler is always better.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Exactly my point. During WW2 there was a Hawker Hurricane variant known as the "tank buster" fitted with a 40mm anti tank gun under each wing. She decimated Afrika Korps tanks.
As for the PIAT, my dad was trained on the damn thing, he reckoned they were more of a danger to the user then the enemy.
Thats why Lord gave you infantry escort.