Why did Germany lose WW2?

MontyB said:
But for hunting UBoats it was not as successful because the information being passed to sub hunters was already hours old and subs rarely sit bobbing up and down on the ocean for very long.
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ASW was very rudimentary in WWII. If the convoys knew they were going to be attacked by subs then the destroyers could fire their ASW weapons. Most subs survived this but they had to dive deep and keep silent. The convoy was saved, and that was most important.

If you want to know how life was in subs being attacked, watch the movie "Das Boot". It's excellent.
 
We do not need historians, authors or even witnesses to know how important ULTRA was, simple logic will do.

Play 2 games of stratego, one without and one with "ULTRA". In the first game you use your recce to find out how the enemy is positioned. This wil decide your strategy.
In the second game however, some figures are highlited, you know what and where they are AND you know what your oponent is going to do with it. This will give you a tremendous strategic advantage.

ULTRA didn't give the allies more power but they were able to concentrate the powers they had to their advantage.
 
Sorry have we reached the point where are comparing WW2 to a game of Stratego?

Lucky Winston rolled a 6 to Adolfs 2, although Adolf knew he was in trouble when Winston shouted B4 to which Adolf could only reply "Sie sank mein Schlachtschiff".
 
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MontyB said:
Sorry have we reached the point where are comparing WW2 to a game of Stratego?

Lucky Winston rolled a 6 to Adolfs 2, although Adolf knew he was in trouble when Winston shouted B4 to which Adolf could only reply "Sie sank mein Schlachtschiff".
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Why not?
Makes more sense than some of the inane ramblings that have been put forward here!
 
MontyB said:
Sorry have we reached the point where are comparing WW2 to a game of Stratego?

Lucky Winston rolled a 6 to Adolfs 2, although Adolf knew he was in trouble when Winston shouted B4 to which Adolf could only reply "Sie sank mein Schlachtschiff".
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I wanted to keep it simple. Seems not simple enough for you. ;)
 
Trooper1854 said:
Why not?
Makes more sense than some of the inane ramblings that have been put forward here!
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That is a matter of opinion and perhaps says more about you than those you rate as inane ramblings, I could argue that it is the opinion of someone with a History Channel education.

VDKMS said:
I wanted to keep it simple. Seems not simple enough for you. ;)
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Really is that the defence you are going with?

It amazes me that a thread that has survived 4.5 years has been derailed by a couple of people that really had nothing more to add than we could have got from a 1950s Commando comic.
 
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MontyB said:
That is a matter of opinion and perhaps says more about you than those you rate as inane ramblings, I could argue that it is the opinion of someone with a History Channel education.
.
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OOooooh! sense of humour failure!
As a matter of fact mate, I have a degree in modern history, and I am working on a masters, so if you want to get into a pi**ing contest be my guest!
I actualy thought better of you.
 
I will happily get into a pi**ing contest with anyone who tries to assign more value to their opinion than anyone else's by deriding and shouting down anything they don't agree with.

So my suggestion is simple if you have nothing useful to say don't say anything, let us ramble on amongst ourselves and you can go chat about your Star Wars collection with anyone that cares, alternatively you could try being constructive.

I await your response with disinterest.
 
MontyB said:
I will happily get into a pi**ing contest with anyone who tries to assign more value to their opinion than anyone else's by deriding and shouting down anything they don't agree with.

So my suggestion is simple if you have nothing useful to say don't say anything, let us ramble on amongst ourselves and you can go chat about your Star Wars collection with anyone that cares, alternatively you could try being constructive.

I await your response with disinterest.
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Your ignorance astounds me!
Please explain what my interest in Star Wars has to do with anything?
I am a very big Star Wars fan, and through my, and my friends interest in it, we have raised millions of pounds for children's charities.
Find that amusing and worth deriding?
Are you actualy capable of raising an argument without resulting to insults?
Honestly, I thought you were someone who could argue a point, and accept that not every one would have the same oppinion, something I have stated that I do on numerous occaisions.
I have had many a constructive discussion here with many members.
You appear to be the one who has a problem.
It is a shame, as this was a very interesting thread, but as you have lowered yourself to throwing personal insults about, it has lost its apppeal.
 
Argue a point?
I have sat through 3+ pages of people calling others idiots because they couldn't make them accept their views, I have read nonsense about Stratego and had you referring to peoples posts as "inane ramblings" and you now tell me I am responsible for this?

Here is a variation on an old saying for ya... "Pot, meet kettle, he's black".

I honestly don't care whether you like my opinion nor does it bother me that we disagree what has really begun to annoy me is this process of getting more and more abusive with those who don't back away from their opinions because you and those like you think you have a mandate on valid opinion.

If the thread no longer interests you there are plenty of others you can go play in.

Oh and one more thing, I really couldn't care less about Star Wars either.
 
MontyB said:
Argue a point?
I have sat through 3+ pages of people calling others idiots because they couldn't make them accept their views, I have read nonsense about Stratego and had you referring to peoples posts as "inane ramblings" and you now tell me I am responsible for this?

Here is a variation on an old saying for ya... "Pot, meet kettle, he's black".

I honestly don't care whether you like my opinion nor does it bother me that we disagree what has really begun to annoy me is this process of getting more and more abusive with those who don't back away from their opinions because you and those like you think you have a mandate on valid opinion.

If the thread no longer interests you there are plenty of others you can go play in.

Oh and one more thing, I really couldn't care less about Star Wars either.
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Monty, its your opinion, you are entitled to it. The end.
I'm going to bed now, I've been on nights and I'm tired.
 
MontyB said:
It amazes me that a thread that has survived 4.5 years has been derailed by a couple of people that really had nothing more to add than we could have got from a 1950s Commando comic.
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OK, I'll make it as simple as can be. Intelligence can have a huge impact on your strategy.

BTW, Stratego is still a popular game with world championships.
 
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Having a megalomaniac making strategic combat decisions didn't help much either.
 
The german warmachine / equipment / training had nothing to do with losing in my opinion , in fact i think that if germany had war with a single country of the allies ( lets say the USA or the USSR ) the germans would have won , they lost because they simply were overwhelmed by the entire allied force ( yes they had italians on their side but italians proved useless )

u dont go to a fight vs the entire world and expect to win lol
 
mohamedwa said:
The german warmachine / equipment / training had nothing to do with losing in my opinion , in fact i think that if germany had war with a single country of the allies ( lets say the USA or the USSR ) the germans would have won , they lost because they simply were overwhelmed by the entire allied force ( yes they had italians on their side but italians proved useless )

u dont go to a fight vs the entire world and expect to win lol
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I can agree with that but in many respects it does not explain why they very nearly did win the European war when given the men and material ranged against them should not have even been close.

Personally I am beginning to think that racial policies played a much greater part in the loss than we are acknowledging:
- They lost many top scientists early on.
- They killed at least 1 million men of military age in gas chambers and countless people who given adequate food and shelter would have aided the war effort and economy immeasurably.
- They brutalised a Russian population that at first saw them as liberators until they had a million or so partisans ranged in their midst.
 
Der Alte said:
One of the great unanswered questions of World War II is Soviet code breaking operations. Without a doubt the Soviets must have worked on German and Japanese codes as well as Allied codes. As far as I know, the Soviets and now the Russians have never released information on their code breaking operations. Nor do I know of a historian that has gained any significan insights into their operations.
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I really can not argue with this, I have scoured every book on the subject I can find and asked around several other forums I frequent and I can find nothing on Russian code breaking efforts during WW2.

I will keep looking though as this now has me intrigued.


VDKMS said:
One thing I have not read in this tread is the rivalry among commanders that can have an influence on the outcome of a battle or the war.
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It is interesting as I have have just got through reading Surrender Invites Death: Fighting the Waffen SS in Normandy by John A English and one page really stood out with regards to your comment...

mess1.jpg


It seems to me that none of the German Commanders knew what the other guy was doing and petty rivalries reinforced that with orders issues and countermanded all over the place.

Now for interests sake here are the views of General Erhard Raus from the book Panzer Operations: The Eastern Front Memoir of General Raus, 1941-45...




Raus1.jpg


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about Normandy :what the Germans knew about Ovelord is not that important,because the fact is that they were unable to start in the critical period a big counteroffensive to dislodge the Brirish and Americans,critical period being 6/20 june,later was impossible .
Let's look at the 7 mobile divisions that would be needed
1SS:to far away and not ready:it took 3 weeks to transport the LSS to Normandy
12 SS:139 tanks,but a big shortage on NCO's
17 SS:to far away ,and it had no tanks
2 Pz:167 tanks,at Amiens
116 Pz :162 tanks,short on trucks
21 Pz:119 tanks,insufficiently trained
Panzerlehr:188 tanks,but its Panthers were leaving for Russia,and,to far away :in the regio Chartres,Me Mans,Orleans
The 3 divisions that could be sent "quickly" to Normandy (12 SS,2,116) were in the impossibility to start a counterattack,because the ID stationed in Normandy could not hold the front line,and the mobile divisions had to stop the gaps
 
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