Was General Montgomery really overrated in WW2?

Didn't General MacArthur say of Ike he was the best clerk he ever had on his staff. In saying that I think he was the best man for the job, like every one else they all made mistakes except some people get picked on more than others
 
OK I just want to say I don't like Monty because he was a prima donna .Even though I like Patton and MacArthur at least they admitted they were prima donnas which is why I like them.But overall Monty hasome great ideas the timing was just poor.:tank:
 
Much of the information that might have caused Monty to call off operation Market Garden was never passed on to him, as there so many Airborne officers were just to keen to go. Okay it was his idea and had been launched a few days earlier it could have been a resounding success, but the planning and arrangements were left to other people to deal with.
 
My regiment lost 8,000, the one thing the Allies did not do well was the pincer movement. Both the Russian and Germans did this rather well and apart from Falsie we never tried to do any thing like this
 
LeEnfield said:
Much of the information that might have caused Monty to call off operation Market Garden was never passed on to him, as there so many Airborne officers were just to keen to go. Okay it was his idea and had been launched a few days earlier it could have been a resounding success, but the planning and arrangements were left to other people to deal with.
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Le -does it hold true that one of his strengths was that his troops 'loved' him?
 
Del Boy...........I would not go as far to say his troops loved him, In North Africa they respected him, he put new strength into the Army and would not fight an offensive battle unless he stood a great chance of winning. He stopped the idea that Rommel was unbeatable, he told his army that they would fight and die where they stood and that there would not be any further retreats once he took over. He re-quipped and retrained his army. It was this positive attitude that they respected.
 
Maciste said:
Can a man be overrated just because he never were always succesful? I don't think so.
Montgomery was a great defensive commander, and also a good offensive one, but, unlike Rommel, he liked to build up carefully every inch of power he could gather to unleash them all at once against the enemy.
Remember his division was the one which retreated to Dunkirk on perfect formation and carrying all his equipment, because he trained them hard all along the "phony war". He was a good commander, but their colleagues weren't so.
On Africa he managed to rally the demoralized british troops, to train them and to gather anything which could be throw to Germans... and if he didn't destroyed them on Alamein was because of his "neverdaring" nature, which lend him not to run risks at all, and becouse of the mastery of Rommel moving his poor forces (the German ones, 'cos' the Italians were left behind as useless pieces).
Maybe not the best, but much better than some others.
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True enough:horsie:
 
LeEnfield said:
My regiment lost 8,000, the one thing the Allies did not do well was the pincer movement. Both the Russian and Germans did this rather well and apart from Falsie we never tried to do any thing like this
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I would have doubted the Russians were good at the pincer movement. They certainly had overwhelming numbers to batter away at the Germans. Their tanks were better (the T34) but I have doubts about their tactics.
 
errol...........You say that the Russians were not good at the Pincer movement, well try telling that to the Germans at Stalingrad and the Crimea and a number of other places. They would sweep around the Germans trapping them and wiping them out. The Germans poured some 200.000 men into Stalingrad and of of that total just 5.000 returned to Germany and they were not returned till the 1950's
 
Le - my impression at the end of WW11, when the desert rats etc., returned was that Montgomery was very popular amongst his troops; would you endorse this view or not?
 
Del Boy..............Yes he was very popular with his troops, but just how much of his popularity was to his leadership and how much was due to his publicity machine I would not like to say.
 
Le - All the guys were coming back with smart little moustaches - I'm still trying to decide whether their model was Montgomery or Errol Flynn!

I always thought it was surprising that he was popular - from distance he seemed an unlikely prospect for that.
 
LeEnfield said:
errol...........You say that the Russians were not good at the Pincer movement, well try telling that to the Germans at Stalingrad and the Crimea and a number of other places. They would sweep around the Germans trapping them and wiping them out. The Germans poured some 200.000 men into Stalingrad and of of that total just 5.000 returned to Germany and they were not returned till the 1950's
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Yes, the Russians certainly encircled them at Stalingrad after the Germans were held in a very static position for several months.

I am refering more to the Russians ability to move their tank divisions quickly through and around the German lines when things were very fluid in say the period 41-43. I have never read consistent evidence of this ability. The Russians had an endless supply of tanks that they were able to keep throwing at the Germans. The Russians were certainly able to punch holes through the German lines more easily as the war was turning in their favour. I don't think they ever had the skill shown by the German Panzers in pincer attacks.
 
The Russians surround many of the big German units in Eastern Europe and then destroyed them, Also they did it at Berlin
 
The Russians certainly did surround the Germans in Berlin but I have read accounts where it was a bloody free for all amongst the Russian divisions. The Russian casualties were a lot higher than they should have been.

None of you have addressed the question of the skill (or lack of) that the Russians used their tank formations in conjunction with the other armed services with regard to pincer attacks on fluid German tank formations eg Kursk, Karkhov etc.

They had overwhelming forces 1944 onwards so it was easy for the Russians to punch holes through the German lines (when they had not over stretched their supply lines).

I would say the Germans had exhibited far more skill with their Panzers when the sides were more even.
 
The Russians wiped out a German army in the Crimea, they cut of a destroyed a large number of Germans along the Baltic coast, and if you want to read about one spectacular campaign by the Russians read about there assault on the Japanese in China, they wiped them out in a matter of weeks, yet Japanese were supposed to be tough fighters
 
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