Israel rightfully own the West Bank .

[VDKMS]

Owww,... that must have been painful. You just shot yourself in the foot.
In the first case the Israeli does not "own" it,... Theft does not give legal ownership. If the Jew buys it, yes he does own it, but this would entail a legal agreement between the two. Your case is purely hypothetical and because as no such agreement has been reached regarding the West Bank, it has not been either sold nor donated to Israel, therefore it is still Palestinian land and they own it.

I realise that English is probably your second language and you obviously have difficulty in understanding the difference between, Ownership and Possession, but put simply. the word "own" implies rightful possession. (not theft)


You can see the difference in the meanings of the two words here. What you are talking about is possession, not ownership.

Sorry Seno, my mistake. I thought that owning ment having it , I dindn't know that it has something to do with legality. The dictionary I found first wasn't quite accurate (see below).

own
To have or possess
[URL="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/owning"]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/owning[/URL]

Allthough this has no influence on my point of view (see post 101 and 118)


My case is not hypothetical allthough very rare because of the death punishment.
In late April 2009, a Palestinian military court condemned a man to death by hanging for treason after he sold some land to Israelis. The death sentence requires the approval of the Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas, who is not expected to approve it.
2010 : Qalqiliya – Ma'an – The Palestinian Authority Court of First Instance on Tuesday sentenced a Palestinian man to 10 years imprisonment on charges of selling land to Israel.
The accused, identified only by the initials AF, 44, from Qalqiliya in the occupied West Bank, was convicted in accordance with the 1960 article 144 of the penal code number 6.
AF's original sentence was reduced from 15 years to 10 years with manual labor.
Selling land to Israeli settlers is considered collaboration with an enemy state under the law and in Palestinian society, which deems such transactions detrimental to Palestinian national aspirations.

 

[84RFK]

Bunk. The european barbarians murdered 1/3 of the Jewish people in about 4 years for no other reason that they were Jewish. The same barbarians slaughtered hundreds of Jewish communities in Europe over a 2000 year period for the crime of killing god on a stick!!! Bunk on Xtianity and bunk on the cowards who hold Jews accountable to the death of a mythical god but can't swallow the stink of murdering 6 million men women and children.

As far as numbers of death occurring annually in this tiny local conflict ... more people die in traffic accident on Israeli roads than die b/c of the IDF killing terrorists who need killing. Millions of people are dying in wars in Africa and around the world and idiots focus upon a dinky dispute involving hundreds of people dying annually!!! Pathetic.

6 million men, women, and children of the Jewish fate...and that's all that counts is it?
No need to mention:
3 million Soviet prisoners of war.
2 million Polish citizens.
1,4 million Gypsies.
0,2 million handicapped people.
125 000 religious dissenters, homosexuals, political dissenters and freemasons.

The total number would be around 12,7 million pople, not counting the 6 million Soviet civilians murdered by the nazi regime...

I dare say that your lack of empathy is overwhelming.

That off course could explain why the qoute:
"Israel uses guilt of the holocaust to pressure Western nations into supporting it. But now Israel is brutally oppressing millions of people"
still stands...

 

[moshe]

Barbarians, in the case of the 20th century ... primitive european barbarians slaughtered millions. In the 21st century barbarians ignore the crimes of barbarians and focus upon all other peoples, specifically Jews, so they don't have to account for the crimes committed by their own barbarian peoples.

 

[senojekips]

Are you complaining about those same "Barbarians" who saved the last of the European Jews from the gas chambers?

Are you telling us that, that was a bad decision??

I have no doubt that in view of today's problems, some people would agree with you on that point.

 

[84RFK]

Barbarians, in the case of the 20th century ... primitive european barbarians slaughtered millions. In the 21st century barbarians ignore the crimes of barbarians and focus upon all other peoples, specifically Jews, so they don't have to account for the crimes committed by their own barbarian peoples.

I may have been mistaking here, it's not just the lack of empathy, but also a lack of basic knowledge and understanding...

You have failed to recognize the fact that at this very moment there are people of the Jewish fate who have sunk down to the same level as the primitive european barbarians who slaugthered millions of innocent people in the 20th century.
And by doing so they are about to repeat the exact same authrocities that you are refering to with disgust.

As for the lack of basic knowledge, you appear ignorant of the fact that the people in Germany are still paying for their ancestors sins, even today.

We, the european barbarians, have learned frrom history and are doing what we can to avoid history to repeat itself, something you have yet to discover.

 

[operationmatador]

It was the land of Israel and will remain the land of Israel,fakestine never existed,never,

 

[dadsgirl]

Did "Americans" conquer this great and we live in today? Conquer is a very strong wrong. As my Mom used to say, "Hate" is a very strong word". It is.
There were(and still are- but in reservations), the original peoples of this country. I know you can't compare apples and oranges, but why not sometimes... I am an American, yes, my ethnic origins are Finland and New Zealand. List goes on. It makes me shiver- that ANY man can do or treat another fellow human being with out respect. We can way back...to the Egyptians or even the Aztecs. Looks like we are not going to be solving THIS one soon. But to hate Israel? No, not everyone does. I will cook a Passover Seder for next year and you can all come. Leave your colors at the door please and thank you. And...you will ALL have turns reading from the prayer book; like it has been done for eons.

 

[senojekips]

Did "Americans" conquer this great and we live in today? Conquer is a very strong wrong. As my Mom used to say, "Hate" is a very strong word". It is.
There were(and still are- but in reservations), the original peoples of this country. I know you can't compare apples and oranges, but why not sometimes... I am an American, yes, my ethnic origins are Finland and New Zealand. List goes on. It makes me shiver- that ANY man can do or treat another fellow human being with out respect. We can way back...to the Egyptians or even the Aztecs. Looks like we are not going to be solving THIS one soon. But to hate Israel? No, not everyone does. I will cook a Passover Seder for next year and you can all come. Leave your colors at the door please and thank you.

Ahhh,... that sounds all very mealy mouthed and civilised, unfortunately you have completely ignored all modern International Laws and Conventions. If you want to shiver in disgust, look in the mirror. Israel is the world's fourth most despised Stae and has been for more than 10 years since the Poll has been running.

Yes, civilised persons do hate Israel just as we hated the Nazis that taught them how to ignore the Law and treat the legitimate owners as animals. (The Palestinians were recognised as owners as shown by the UN British Mandate for PALESTINE, there never was a Mandate for Israel. it was recommended by the UN General assembly (Res. 181), that Palestine should be asked if they would allow a Jewish State but they rightfully refused, and as a result this recommendation was never ratified by the United Nations Security Council) As such Israel is actually a legal nonentity and will remain so.

In 1948 the Palestinians rightfully and legally attempted to resist the ensuing flood of illegal Jewish immigrants with the help of other neighbouring Arab States and were defeated, however this has no bearing in law as land acquired by military force can never be annexed.

ISRAELI VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL LAW​

• Major Legal Principle Violated -
  • 1. Acquisition of Territory by Military Conquest is Illegal
  • 2. Occupation (either Legal or Illegal) is Generally Temporary and Must Never Lead To Sovereignty over Occupied or Conquered Lands of the Enemy People or Nation.
• As Per International Law -
  • UN Charter, article 2, para. 4 (1945) (full text) (specific article - see below)
  • Declaration On Principles Of International Law Concerning Friendly Relations And Co-Operation Among States In Accordance With The Charter Of The United Nations (1970), Principle 1 (full text) (specific article - see below)
  • Hague Regulations IV (1907), articles 43 & 55 (full text) (specific articles - see below)
  • Geneva Conventions IV (1949), article 47 & 54 (full text) (specific articles - see below)

 

[MontyB]

Did "Americans" conquer this great and we live in today? Conquer is a very strong wrong. As my Mom used to say, "Hate" is a very strong word". It is.
There were(and still are- but in reservations), the original peoples of this country. I know you can't compare apples and oranges, but why not sometimes... I am an American, yes, my ethnic origins are Finland and New Zealand. List goes on. It makes me shiver- that ANY man can do or treat another fellow human being with out respect. We can way back...to the Egyptians or even the Aztecs. Looks like we are not going to be solving THIS one soon. But to hate Israel? No, not everyone does. I will cook a Passover Seder for next year and you can all come. Leave your colors at the door please and thank you. And...you will ALL have turns reading from the prayer book; like it has been done for eons.

Wasn't it Martin Luther King that said "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"?

To say that it "makes you shiver that anyone can treat another human being without respect" is acceptance of wrong doing and that is the primary reason there is no peace in Palestine.

 

[dadsgirl]

It does make me shiver. Not surprised however. We, as in a collective we are just that, human; brutal.
You are all still invited

Oh yeah, "mealy mouthed" I am not.
Civilized, I don't know yet. But I do try to be a conscious human being.

 

[MontyB]

It does make me shiver. Not surprised however. We, as in a collective we are just that, human; brutal.
You are all still invited

Oh yeah, "mealy mouthed" I am not.
Civilized, I don't know yet. But I do try to be a conscious human being.

As an Agnostic bordering Atheist I don't do any prayer books either, you would get far greater participation by giving me a copy of Hans Christian Andersen's Fairy Tales to read.

 

[senojekips]

It does make me shiver. Not surprised however. We, as in a collective we are just that, human; brutal.
You are all still invited

Oh yeah, "mealy mouthed" I am not.

Don't you believe it, you have just posted a great example to back my statement.

Similar things were said about the Nazis. Immorality is not born in us, it is a choice.

By the way, Yes,.. I am also of Jewish heritage, but because of people with morals like yours I tend not to make a habit of telling people.

Rather than go through another 170+ pages again I seriously recommend that you read http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/so-why-people-hate-israel-t93540.html
It will answer all of your questions and disprove all your brain washed rhetoric a dozen times over complete with links to the facts.

 

[dadsgirl]

As an Agnostic bordering Atheist I don't do any prayer books either, you would get far greater participation by giving me a copy of Hans Christian Andersen's Fairy Tales to read.

O.k., I get it. But we can talk it over a glass of wine. And I don't have that book, but Grimm's Fairy Tales I do.

 

[dadsgirl]

Senojekips, I actually watched a You Tube video you posted. Talk about things being taken out of context. Propaganda, yes. Saw what news channel put it up too. Fox. Looked up.. Freegaza.org, BTW, is temporarily under going changes or something. Judst, educated yes. Looked a lot up.
Your opinion. You are entitled to it.

Rhetoric is right.

I am not saying crimes against Palestians are o.k.. Get that straight.

 

[MontyB]

O.k., I get it. But we can talk it over a glass of wine. And I don't have that book, but Grimm's Fairy Tales I do.

Oddly enough I don't see any point to talking about it as there is no room for compromise, Palestinians have been talking about it for the last 70 years and all they have got from it is 500,000 squatters and land loss the longer the talking goes on the more squatters and less land they will have to "negotiate" with.

To simply pass off the Palestinian plight as "not supporting crimes against them" is the worrying part because in the words of Edmund Burke... “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

The reality is that we are clearly never going to agree on this issue therefore all talking will do is create frustration and that never leads to anything positive.

 

[dadsgirl]

Just my opinion...

Oddly enough I don't see any point to talking about it as there is no room for compromise, Palestinians have been talking about it for the last 70 years and all they have got from it is 500,000 squatters and land loss the longer the talking goes on the more squatters and less land they will have to "negotiate" with.

To simply pass off the Palestinian plight as "not supporting crimes against them" is the worrying part because in the words of Edmund Burke... “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


The reality is that we are clearly never going to agree on this issue therefore all talking will do is create frustration and that never leads to anything positive.

No, I just meant talking about reading the prayer book. Like some say " The greatest STORY ever told". I am not religious. Spiritual as some say, yes. I'm sure I'll get it for that too. Was not raised religiously, but did have traditions. My Dad was raised very religiously, but wound up an atheist. So, go figure?!

It's like this, it's a step up for people who can get along that agree that they can disagree. I never said I didn't.
I saw the video too.
Just gander at my " signature ". For me it says it all. Some are just stuck in the mire and can't grab a hold.

 

[JOC]

I Agree

The Mideast is full of injustice. One can point all the fault at Israel however much of the neighborhood is filled with blood and hatred. Sunni vs. Shiite, Kurd vs. Iraq's and Turks, Religious persecution of Christians. No dought Israel is heavy handed in it's reprisals and was founded on terrorism against the British. I also wonder about the validity of polls, however I'm sure Israel has many enemy's. If you look at the numbers the Palestinians killed by Israel would be far lower number than those killed by the rebellion in Syria, the in fighting between fractions in Iraq or the Islamic republic of Iran. This does not make the harsh Israeli retaliations right it just points out the violent nature of the neighborhood.
Well open fire.

 

[senojekips]

The Mideast is full of injustice.Etc,...

Injustice, is when youget falsely booked for exceeding the the time allowed in Restricted Parking Zone. What has happened here is a 70 year long war Crime, primarily aided and abetted by countries like the USA which was only made possible because of the US power of Veto in the Security Council, were it any other country they would have been bombed back to the Stone Age more than 60 years ago. The good thing happening now is that, even the US is now starting to get cold feet about their involvement, read this:

Joe Catron, it seems like the BDS movement obviously is gaining a lot of traction more so recently than before but in the bigger picture, I’d like to get your idea of how Israel is at this point being somewhat cornered, the failed peace talks the US blames Israel for, we are looking at the death of those two Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, it is said that there is a probe now being pushed by the US and the UN on Israel to find out exactly what is happening because some say it is execution-style killing.

The global powers most closely aligned with Israel – the United States and Europe – see themselves increasingly at risk of being held accountable for the role they have played in enabling Israel’s continued aggression, expansion and displacement of Palestinians. And I think that has a lot to do certainly with these gestures or maneuvers to distance themselves from these Israeli policies.

Have you lost your mind or is it just that you have no idea of what has gone on in the middle east since the Zionists started arriving in numbers displacing the legitimate owners.

All you need to do is read the history of the area and you'll find that if you bother to just scratch the surface 99% of this unrest and infighting can be traced back to the Palestinian land theft by the Zionists.

 

[JOC]

Israel and Mideast

I never said the magnitude of Israel’s actions were justified. However I don’t understand your viewpoint on how 99% of the Mideast issues are related to Israeli – Palestinian_Arab conflict. These are just 3 of many other conflicts in the area, how do thy relate?

Kurd vs. (Iraq's and Turks) related to the Israeli – Palestinian_Arab conflict. The Kurd’s have long wanted an independent Kurdistan not related to Israel.

How are the 10.000’s that were killed by the Islamic republic of Iran related to the Israeli – Palestinian_Arab conflict? These were either political enemy’s of the new theocracy or were killed enforcing shia laws as the new republic stifled the western going trends.

How are 10,000’s killed in the Syrian civil war related to the Israeli – Palestinian_Arab conflict. These are people killed in a war with the Bath regime as it struggles to hold onto power.

 

[JOC]

Injustice, is when youget falsely booked for exceeding the the time allowed in Restricted Parking Zone. What has happened here is a 70 year long war Crime, primarily aided and abetted by countries like the USA which was only made possible because of the US power of Veto in the Security Council, were it any other country they would have been bombed back to the Stone Age more than 60 years ago. The good thing happening now is that, even the US is now starting to get cold feet about their involvement, read this:

Joe Catron, it seems like the BDS movement obviously is gaining a lot of traction more so recently than before but in the bigger picture, I’d like to get your idea of how Israel is at this point being somewhat cornered, the failed peace talks the US blames Israel for, we are looking at the death of those two Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, it is said that there is a probe now being pushed by the US and the UN on Israel to find out exactly what is happening because some say it is execution-style killing.

The global powers most closely aligned with Israel – the United States and Europe – see themselves increasingly at risk of being held accountable for the role they have played in enabling Israel’s continued aggression, expansion and displacement of Palestinians. And I think that has a lot to do certainly with these gestures or maneuvers to distance themselves from these Israeli policies.

Have you lost your mind or is it just that you have no idea of what has gone on in the middle east since the Zionists started arriving in numbers displacing the legitimate owners.

All you need to do is read the history of the area and you'll find that if you bother to just scratch the surface 99% of this unrest and infighting can be traced back to the Palestinian land theft by the Zionists.

If you must lower yourself and use insults to try and prove your point you only weaken your argument.