California Overturns Gay Marriage

[senojekips]

They were fundamentally different because of their gender... Homosexuality does not make a man a different type of human... Simply a different type of human being... You're either reading way to much into what I'm saying, or just not grasping the concept.....

I'm reading you very clearly, and yes, I'm not getting the concept... or even a sniff of it.

Cars are cars. They are different COLORS of car, but are still the same CAR. THAT'S my point!!! They can be different and still have similarities.

No they are not the same car, that may be the same make but that is it..... I'll go so far as the say that homosexuals may be "similar" to me, in some ways but there the simlarity ends.... Period. They have two arms two legs and most of the regular stuff, but they are in no way the same.

Eeewwwww!! Yuccky, sucky, f**ky,.... No way, whatsoever.

I think our debate reached it's logical end about 10 posts ago. You seem to assume that I should like homos, and I am telling you that they make my skin crawl. I think you'd better get used to it, because the more you say the more I'm convinced I was right in the first place.

 

[Rob Henderson]

You see Spike, if two 2008 Ford Mustang GTs are sitting in a parking lot, one black and one blue, they are the same car. They are different variations of the car, but they are still the same under the hood, the same interior features, the same body type... They are still the same... Just different colors.


Nope. That's it. That's all I wanted right there "Similar to me."


THAT'S the point I was trying to make... On some level, no matter how much you don't want to admit it (as you can see from 3 pages of me posting the same damned thing 10 different ways) homosexuals and heterosexuals DO have some similar characteristics. I was never saying you are anything close to a homosexual... Just the fact that you share one basic (and pretty big) characteristic... That you are both human. It's a bit of a bonding quality... It's why we think the massacre of 6 million Jews in the Holocaust was such a tragedy, because they were humans... If it had been 6 million dogs, we might think the guy was nuts, but they're just dogs... Humans deserve better treatment than to be persecuted for a lifestyle choice. It doesn't matter how much they make your skin crawl, I'm not a fan of homosexuality either... I'm about as straight as one can go, but I still think that if they want to get married, who am I to say what they can and can't do?

 

[senojekips]

You see Spike, if two 2008 Ford Mustang GTs are sitting in a parking lot, one black and one blue, they are the same car.

Try driving off in the one that does not belong to you, and you soon see quite clearly from between the bars that they are most certainly not the same vehicle. I'd just love to see the expression on the judges face when you told him they are the same.

You are just being a fool here, and unless you can come up with something a little more logical , this conversation between you and I is finished.

 

[Rob Henderson]

Try driving off in the one that does not belong to you, and you soon see quite clearly from between the bars that they are most certainly not the same vehicle. I'd just love to see the expression on the judges face when you told him they are the same.

You are just being a fool here, and unless you can come up with something a little more logical , this conversation between you and I is finished.

Ownership is a completely different story. Humans cannot be owned. And again, knock it off with the name calling. It's not my fault it took so long to get you to realize what I meant.
But I bet if you asked the judge if they were the same type of car, he'd say yes.


My entire point to saying that all humans are the same is that you cannot persecute someone because of a lifestyle choice they make in the privacy of their own homes.

 

[senojekips]

The truth may hurt, but it is the truth no less. I was being very conservative, as your line of "reasoning" (if one could call it that) deserves a far more truthful description which would have me banned.

Homos and straights will never be the same just as you and I will never see agreement, because there is no common ground. They know this, and this is amply demonstrated by the high rate of suicide and depressive illness among them.

That's why the people of California voted the way they did. More states will follow as common sense prevails

 

[Rob Henderson]

You cannot deny that on some levels homosexuals and heterosexuals share similar qualities. Yes or no?

 

[senojekips]

You tell me,... you seem to be the expert on homosexual affairs, and I guess you'll tell me anyway.

 

[Del Boy]

Rob, getting back to my particular concern re the education of small children. You see, I hold that the situation is not quite as balck and white as some would have us believe.

As in all things I reckon that some are born gay, some achieve gayness, and some have gayness thrust upon them.

I am against the pushing of the pink political propaganda of homosexuality as an approved alternative to heterosexual marriage, but I do not judge or discriminate against gays in any way. I appreciate your position re your friends and find no fault with that at all. I accept that they have a great many qualities to offer society; but I feel that they should not try to attract and recruit youngsters in the same direction deliberately. That's all. Cheers.

 

[Rob Henderson]

Rob, getting back to my particular concern re the education of small children. You see, I hold that the situation is not quite as balck and white as some would have us believe.

As in all things I reckon that some are born gay, some achieve gayness, and some have gayness thrust upon them.

I am against the pushing of the pink political propaganda of homosexuality as an approved alternative to heterosexual marriage, but I do not judge or discriminate against gays in any way. I appreciate your position re your friends and find no fault with that at all. I accept that they have a great many qualities to offer society; but I feel that they should not try to attract and recruit youngsters in the same direction deliberately. That's all. Cheers.

But I don't believe they do. I've never seen anyone forcing someone to be gay... The only FORCING I've seen are people forcing gay people to pretend to be straight.


Seno... I'm done.

 

[Del Boy]

Once again, Rob, I must point out that have never mentioned 'force'. I have spoken of influence, propaganda, encouragement, political persuasion, mis -information, all pushed by the pink lobby , to the detriment of normal marriage and family sustained by a man and a woman.

Their situation can be understood and tolerated but should not be promoted among children as something to be applauded.

That's it.

 

[Rob Henderson]

Yes yes yes, I know, never "force" per say. But encouragement is polite force if you ask me. Now, I don't know about you, but I've never seen gays pushing their agenda on children. Children aren't the ones that matter... If the adults accept it as an OK thing, then the kids will learn to not see it as different. I've never seen it promoted among children as something to be applauded. Even in your articles earlier, there was never mention of "It's good to be gay." Simply "It's not a bad thing if you're gay."

 

[Chukpike]

Yes yes yes, I know, never "force" per say. But encouragement is polite force if you ask me. Now, I don't know about you, but I've never seen gays pushing their agenda on children. Children aren't the ones that matter...

Since you have never seen gays sexually attacking children that means it never happens?

Why does the catholic church keeping paying millions of dollars in settlements to victims of sexual abuse by priests on young boys? Maybe they were only politely encouraging those boys? Since you are so sure that homosexual activity doesn't "hurt anyone" maybe you can enlighten me as to why the church would pay these settlements.

 

[The Other Guy]

Since you have never seen gays sexually attacking children that means it never happens?

Why does the catholic church keeping paying millions of dollars in settlements to victims of sexual abuse by priests on young boys? Maybe they were only politely encouraging those boys? Since you are so sure that homosexual activity doesn't "hurt anyone" maybe you can enlighten me as to why the church would pay these settlements.

First off, way to turn around a sentence. "Pushing agenda" to "sexually attacking", that's pretty good.

That would by pedophila. Being gay and being a pedophile are completely different. And on another note, the church views homosexuality as a sin, which means that they would obviously pay settlements to avoid being called hypocrits.

 

[senojekips]

Of course,.. we are expected to go out of our way to teach our children that antisocial behaviour is quite acceptable, after all, our society really needs a new generation of screwed up kids, with weird ideas about what is expected of socialised and civilised human beings.

As for homos not pushing their views on children, it was Rodney Croome of the Gay and Lesbian Rights Group who advocated that the homosexual lifestyle be promoted within our schools as a viable alternative lifestyle.

They push, they push all the time, trying to gain acceptance within a society who rightly rejects their perverted views

 

[Rob Henderson]

Since you have never seen gays sexually attacking children that means it never happens?

Why does the catholic church keeping paying millions of dollars in settlements to victims of sexual abuse by priests on young boys? Maybe they were only politely encouraging those boys? Since you are so sure that homosexual activity doesn't "hurt anyone" maybe you can enlighten me as to why the church would pay these settlements.

TOG already addressed the whole "Sexually attacking children" thing, so just read what he said to that.


And the only reason the church pays the settlements is for their reputations and for the parents of the children. First of all, it's not JUST the Catholic church, secondly there is a definite separation of church and state in the United States Constitution you SO ADORE, so school and church have nothing to do with each other in these cases.


Senojekips, there's a difference between pushing your views on someone and educating them on your views... If I were to say "Be gay or die." I'd be pushing my views on you. If I said "Gays aren't terrible people, they're similar to you and me." it would be educating them on homosexuality.

Tell me something you like. Who knows, I might find your liking that something a "perverted" view, but I'm not going to hate you for liking it. You just have a different view than I do. You shouldn't call it "perverted" as that is only your opinion. Different would be a better word. You cannot say "rightly" either, because that is ALSO your opinion entirely.

 

[Chukpike]

First off, way to turn around a sentence. "Pushing agenda" to "sexually attacking", that's pretty good.

Sorry, I guess I was being politically insensitive.

That would by pedophila. Being gay and being a pedophile are completely different.

I agree pedophilia probably does not apply.

Pedophilia: A condition in which an adult, usually male, is sexually attracted primarily to pre-pubertal children -- those aged 13 years or under. It is derived from two Greek words: ''pedo" means "child;" and "philia" means "love for." Most are attracted to children in a specific age group (e.g. 5 or 6). Fewer are attracted to young people of any age up to puberty.

Difference being it could be a woman attracted to a male or female child or a male attracted to a male or female child?

Since the Priest's victims were for the most part alter boys who may or may not have reached puberty Pedophilia may not apply to these cases. That would not rule out gay Priests engaging in improper acts with minor boys.

The church was hypocritical in that they tried cover it up and denied it.

As much as Rob would like to make it a separation of church and state thing. Neither the church or the schools condone these gay individuals actions. Rob would have us believe that we are all the same and individuals have rights that shouldn't be controlled by anyone else, church or state. He may be naive enough to not believe that homosexuals do push their agenda on others. The mere fact that they get out and march and yell how normal they are would tend to indicate otherwise.

 

[Rob Henderson]

As much as Rob would like to make it a separation of church and state thing. Neither the church or the schools condone these gay individuals actions. Rob would have us believe that we are all the same and individuals have rights that shouldn't be controlled by anyone else, church or state. He may be naive enough to not believe that homosexuals do push their agenda on others. The mere fact that they get out and march and yell how normal they are would tend to indicate otherwise.

Look, I'm not going to say that gays don't try and have their way of life accepted at all, but when something like this is the case, I don't consider it pushing an agenda, I consider it wanting to be considered human. Pushing an agenda is more along the lines of trying to force people to believe in something because it will suit you in some way, normally monetarily. Gays don't want money, they want equal treatment. If you were an atheist, and you were considered to be an outcast in society because of your beliefs (or lack thereof) and there was an increasing minority population of atheists, would you not want equal treatment? If you were denied certain rights because of your belief, would you not think that would be a violation of personal freedoms? Do you REALLY think that the government should control EVERY aspect of your life, be it personal or public?!

 

[Chukpike]

Since you have never seen gays sexually attacking children that means it never happens?

Why does the catholic church keeping paying millions of dollars in settlements to victims of sexual abuse by priests on young boys? Maybe they were only politely encouraging those boys? Since you are so sure that homosexual activity doesn't "hurt anyone" maybe you can enlighten me as to why the church would pay these settlements.

And the only reason the church pays the settlements is for their reputations and for the parents of the children. First of all, it's not JUST the Catholic church, secondly there is a definite separation of church and state in the United States Constitution you SO ADORE, so school and church have nothing to do with each other in these cases.

The church's reputation was degraded when they denied it happened. The settlements were paid to the victims even you should be aware of that.

Yes, I still admire the Constitution even as those, such as yourself, try to twist it into something it is not. Until you offer something better I will continue to support it.

I could be wrong but I don't think the church or state condoned the actions of those gay priests.

 

[Rob Henderson]

The church's reputation was degraded when they denied it happened. The settlements were paid to the victims even you should be aware of that.

I meant because the parents would have thrown a b***h fit if they didn't get some restitution. LOL

Yes, I still admire the Constitution even as those, such as yourself, try to twist it into something it is not. Until you offer something better I will continue to support it.

I could be wrong but I don't think the church or state condoned the actions of those gay priests.

Please tell me how I'm twisting the Constitution. PLEASE.

 

[The Other Guy]

Just a passing thought; the Nazis considered Homosexuals, Jews, Poles, Russians, Slavs, and Gypsies abnormal. They found a good solution.

By your calculations, Chukpike, the Selma March, the Dream Speech, the Lunch Counter sit-ins, the Montgomery Bus Boycott, would all be considred "pushing an agenda." Is that necessarily a bad thing? I'm not quite seeing how that would be such an awful thing if someone wants to go one an "Are we not Human?" march if the government is denying them their basic rights. That, I believe, would also give them the right to overthrow said government, according to the Declaration of Independence.

Next, I'm not sure how what Henderson is saying is twisting the constitution. The First Amendment gives people the right to assemble, and free speech (Pride Parade). Now mind you, I may not personally enjoy all types of free speech (KKK), but I accept it for what it is, part of the constitution, and thought I may try to reason with people to change their opinion I have to live with the fact that their opinion is theirs, no matter how short-sighted and wacky I may see it to be. However, denying someone these rights because I don't agree with their views makes no sense whatsoever. The Seperation of Church and State does just that; it seperates the Government and any religious group, be it Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, Jewish, Voodoo, etc. If someone wants to impose a law in this country because the Bible or the Koran or Buddha says it's wrong, they can not legally do so. Which brings me full circle; how exactly is what Henderson is saying "Twisting the Constitution"?