XM8 Dropped?

[warhappy100]

XM8 is prove the US Army does not know what it want and now wants
to waste money on open competition for a M16/M4 replacement
I know a few taxpayers who won't be happy. H&K have good product though 5.56 maybe right though not to waste anymore money they should just take as is and work out the kinks heck even the original model
M16 had problems. :shock: :?:

 

[FO Seaman]

XM8 is prove the US Army does not know what it want and now wants
to waste money on open competition for a M16/M4 replacement
I know a few taxpayers who won't be happy. H&K have good product though 5.56 maybe right though not to waste anymore money they should just take as is and work out the kinks heck even the original model
M16 had problems. :shock: :?:

The AR-15/M16 which was fixed before it fully screwed the program (M16A1). The problems where also minor barrel needed to be chromed, foward assist added and better powder. The XM8 melts, is made of plastic and is just plain :cen: .

The U.S. Army know what it wants, and it doesn't wan the XM8.

How is the Army wasting money in having gun makes compete?

They should stick with the M16/M4, why fix what isn't broken?

 

[StephenH.]

I've heard from a few people that the Army is dropping the XM8 project, which would seem pointless by me. Although other people have told me that they are proceeding with the XM8 plan and that is just a bunch of rumors flying around.. Can someone clear this up for me?

 

[Whispering Death]

The project to replace the M-16 is a facet within the overal OICW program; the programe to equip infantry with completely next-generation weapons.

So I can safely tell you that the program to replace the M-16 is NOT scrapped, it is still very much underway.

However, it is true that the XM-8 has been postponed. The army is playing it close to the vest but what we hear is that there where flaws in the design that became aparent durring field tests and there has also been strong lobying by competitors like Colt inc. to give their weapons a chance before going with the XM-8.

Currently the XM-8 has NOT been dropped but is awaiting re-evaluation and analysis by the army brass on how to procede in order to get the best weapon possible for our troops.

 

[StephenH.]

Thanks.

Thanks! Good thing, heh. I'm a big M-16 and XM8 fan.. Hopefully when I get into the service, about 2011 or so they'll be getting farther with them!

 

[Morten]

sure looks damn nice is these the current designs? just did a quick search on XM8

 

[5.56X45mm]

The Colt has not made a military contract M16 since the late 1980s. Fabrique National is currently making them.

The XM8 was dropped and is going to be re-evaluated because the first series of test were scewed toward the H&K design. The new series of test will be with a open bid contract.

That means that other firearm companies will be able to introduce their products for the evaluation.

I believe that the XM8 is a piece of crap. It's all plastic and it is not compatible with any of the current US equipment.

In the end, I think that the M16 will stay in service for a at longer. And if not, the Government should re-open the real Springfield Armory and pump out modern variants of the M14. Such as the [FONT=Arial,San-Serif][FONT=Arial,San-Serif]M1A SOCOM II Carbine[/FONT][/FONT].

Also the [FONT=Arial,San-Serif][FONT=Arial,San-Serif]M1A Scout Squad Rifle is a fine choice.
[/FONT][/FONT]

The reasons are simple. The M14 is a simple, well proven design, and is still in service as the M21 Sniper Rifle. Also the 7.62X51MM NATO is a proven battle cartridge. Greater knock down power, longer range, and will easily pierce heavy structures and most body armors.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles-m1a.shtml

 

[Whispering Death]

Well, I like the XM-8 design a lot from what I've read on paper and seen of guys like R. Lee Ermy putting it through it's paces on some enemy watermellons

Bashing a new generation rifle because it requires new equipment is a historically bad idea to take. Remember when the US Army wouldn't equip its soldiers with repeating rifles in the Civil War instead of muskets because they said it wasn't compatible with all their musket supplies. That isn't looked at as neccessarily such a great move in hindsight

I would like to see 7.62 brought back, though. I've never been happy with the 5.56 and the XM-8 can very easily be converted between 7.62 and 5.56 chambers.

 

[FO Seaman]

Well, I like the XM-8 design a lot from what I've read on paper and seen of guys like R. Lee Ermy putting it through it's paces on some enemy watermellons

Bashing a new generation rifle because it requires new equipment is a historically bad idea to take. Remember when the US Army wouldn't equip its soldiers with repeating rifles in the Civil War instead of muskets because they said it wasn't compatible with all their musket supplies. That isn't looked at as neccessarily such a great move in hindsight

I would like to see 7.62 brought back, though. I've never been happy with the 5.56 and the XM-8 can very easily be converted between 7.62 and 5.56 chambers.

What you forget is that the U.S. Military isn't a few people. When they buy something they buy alot of it, example; The U.S. Army has had the same simulator system computers since 1979 and they have enough parts to last unitl 2020 and the company that produced them stopped making parts in the early 90's.

 

[5.56X45mm]

I believe that the XM8 is a horrible design. I'm not aganist new designs. I'm against a waste of my tax money. If the DOD wants a new rifle. The FN SCAR is a fine choice. The current generation of M16s are far more advanced than any other rifle on the market. I don't want the DOD to replace a good weapon system with a piece of crap.

 

[bulldogg]

Amen Luis!

And I'm getting a bit sick of hearing about how "cool" the rifle looks... who gives a flying :cen: what it LOOKS like, this ain't no damn beauty contest its about lethality and looks have absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

 

[FO Seaman]

Amen Luis!

And I'm getting a bit sick of hearing about how "cool" the rifle looks... who gives a flying :cen: what it LOOKS like, this ain't no damn beauty contest its about lethality and looks have absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

Damn Skippy, I beong to another forum and all I hear is "XM8 this, XM8 that, It looks like a gun off Halo". Sometimes I just wanna bash there heads in with the thing.

 

[Joker]

If the AR 15 series like all the M16´s and M4´s are such a good and reliable Weaponsystem why must your troops clean it twice a day over there to be sure it work´s when it has to?????????????????????????????????????????????????
I´ve never heard such things about the German G36 in Afghanistan or have to make it twice a day by myself while in the German Bundeswehr!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ahh and no H&K weapon has somthing like the forward assist except the improved H&K M4( and i don´t know if you will need it anymore after the improvement)!!!
Or have you ever seen another Weapon in a Game ( i talk about Americas Army wich is developed by the U.S. ARMY) where you need a Key to "fix jam" on your weapon and i don´t play that game often but i tell you i need that key :cen: often!!!!!!

Ok, with the XM8 there may be things like "no Backup sight´s , or some plastic don´t last 100000 rounds rapid fire" but if the DOD wants or also thinks Backup sights are needed so why they don´t say that to H&K what they want additional? I think the guy´s at H&K will fix it!!
And the G36 is not a bad weaponsystem. Ok, i would prefer backup sights for emergency too but in the new G36A1 version the maine sight (the reddot for 100m) is removed and will be replaced by a Rail system to hold any reflexsight you want and without the maine sight you will be able to shoot with the backup sight at top of the carrying handle.
Ahh and BTW, the G36 is only 10 years old!!
And how old is the M16??? 45years???
So i think H&K has 35 years to improve it again and again and again and i think the G36 is in that A1 version a :cen: better and a :cen: more reliable weapon than the M16A1 - M16A24 3/8 !!!!!!!

´Nuff Said

P.S. But i like the SCAR too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joker

 

[FO Seaman]

If the AR 15 series like all the M16´s and M4´s are such a good and reliable Weaponsystem why must your troops clean it twice a day over there to be sure it work´s when it has to?????????????????????????????????????????????????
I´ve never heard such things about the German G36 in Afghanistan or have to make it twice a day by myself while in the German Bundeswehr!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ahh and no H&K weapon has somthing like the forward assist except the improved H&K M4( and i don´t know if you will need it anymore after the improvement)!!!
Or have you ever seen another Weapon in a Game ( i talk about Americas Army wich is developed by the U.S. ARMY) where you need a Key to "fix jam" on your weapon and i don´t play that game often but i tell you i need that key :cen: often!!!!!!

Ok, with the XM8 there may be things like "no Backup sight´s , or some plastic don´t last 100000 rounds rapid fire" but if the DOD wants or also thinks Backup sights are needed so why they don´t say that to H&K what they want additional? I think the guy´s at H&K will fix it!!
And the G36 is not a bad weaponsystem. Ok, i would prefer backup sights for emergency too but in the new G36A1 version the maine sight (the reddot for 100m) is removed and will be replaced by a Rail system to hold any reflexsight you want and without the maine sight you will be able to shoot with the backup sight at top of the carrying handle.
Ahh and BTW, the G36 is only 10 years old!!
And how old is the M16??? 45years???
So i think H&K has 35 years to improve it again and again and again and i think the G36 is in that A1 version a :cen: better and a :cen: more reliable weapon than the M16A1 - M16A24 3/8 !!!!!!!

´Nuff Said

P.S. But i like the SCAR too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joker

The U.S. Amry hasn't used the M16A1 since 1986.

 

[Whispering Death]

Damn Skippy, I beong to another forum and all I hear is "XM8 this, XM8 that, It looks like a gun off Halo". Sometimes I just wanna bash there heads in with the thing.

Wow, that's not a good forum. When I hear "looks like a gun off Halo" that sounds like a slam to me, not a compliament

Am I smart or just getting old? :-/

 

[FO Seaman]

Wow, that's not a good forum. When I hear "looks like a gun off Halo" that sounds like a slam to me, not a compliament

Am I smart or just getting old? :-/

Old. Ya, it's more of a gaming forum where theres all these 15 and 15 year olds who think they know it from playing Ghost Recon.

 

[5.56X45mm]

Well, if age is the case. Than the browning M2 Heavy Machine Gun and B-52 Stratofortress. The Browning M2 has adopted in 1938 and the B-52 Bomber was adopted in 1952.

The AR-15 series had a bad start. But after all the kinks were taken out. It's a great rifle. I never had a problem with my M4 while I was in Afghanistan. My only issue is the use of the SS109 NATO ball round. Piece of crap, a 55Gr Hallow point or 65Gr Soft Lead Tip should be used.

I believe that the AR-15 is the best assualt rifle ever made. If you want a battle rifle, go with a 7.62X51MM class rifle. Other than that. I believe that the DOD should stay with the Ar-15 platform. If you don't clean any weapon system it will jam on you. PERIOD.

 

[FO Seaman]

Well, if age is the case. Than the browning M2 Heavy Machine Gun and B-52 Stratofortress. The Browning M2 has adopted in 1938 and the B-52 Bomber was adopted in 1952.

The AR-15 series had a bad start. But after all the kinks were taken out. It's a great rifle. I never had a problem with my M4 while I was in Afghanistan. My only issue is the use of the SS109 NATO ball round. Piece of crap, a 55Gr Hallow point or 65Gr Soft Lead Tip should be used.

I believe that the AR-15 is the best assualt rifle ever made. If you want a battle rifle, go with a 7.62X51MM class rifle. Other than that. I believe that the DOD should stay with the Ar-15 platform. If you don't clean any weapon system it will jam on you. PERIOD.

The M2 was adopted in 1932 for ground forces, but was designed in 1921.

 

[Whispering Death]

Actually they are on the verge of replacing the M2 with the XM312 and then later the XM307.

Of all the OICW weapons systems it's looking like the M2 is going to be the first to be replaced.

 

[Joker]

The AR-15 series had a bad start. But after all the kinks were taken out. It's a great rifle. never had a problem with my M4 while I was in Afghanistan.

So if the AR15´s had a bad start and needed time to take out the kinks why not take another Rifle that may be a better rifle after some years than the AR 15´s can ever get??? I like the SCAR too, if all the stuff will work that they are planning than you have (this is a german proverb so i hope you understand it) a "egg putting wool-milk-pig" (all-in-Wonder maybe in english?)!!! So if it work give one to me too. But the more features you have the more things can break or just don´t work.

But you also can not say that the G36 is a piece of crap, that isn´t true!
And the XM8 uses mostly the gas system and the inner live of the G36(and that stuff is outstanding) thats it, all the rest at the outside like the plastic that "melts" under extrem heat(and i think this will not happen after 300 rounds = 10 clips wich is most of your ammunition)or this optical sight is the XM8 not a G36! Ok, you can not go over the obstacle course using the XM 8 as a ladder like you do it with your M16(i don´t know it, can you do such things with it please tell me, have no clue), but it´s the same in germany. You can make this things with our good, old and my loving but :cen: heavy G3 but not with the G36 it´s just not made to use as a ladder!! It ´s build to work well, shoot good and be lightweight ! But if you want to have a lighter weapon you must use somthing lighter than metal, and that is plastic. But plastic is also not so robust as metal!

If you don't clean any weapon system it will jam on you.

Thats right and i don´t said that i never clean my rifle or german troops never do it, but its not so vulnerable. They don´t "HAVE" to make it twice a day because it´s not necesarry.Thats a fact!

I will not say that the only good weapons are made by H&K, every weapon has it weeknesses and like 5,56X45 said:"nothing is soldier proof". I will also not say that the XM8 is perfect (I totaly agree with the backup sights) but the system is reliable! So why not build up on a system like the XM8 or the FN SCAR??? You can´t also said that the AR 15 is the best thing ever made!!! And if the ammo is a weakness why they don´t fix it?? Ok, the SF get this new SPR Rifle and the xx grains heavier round to have more mannstopping power but what is with the rest of your troops out there??? They face the enemy every day they have more firefights than the SF have, but why the normal trooper´s of the 1st AD or 3rd ID don´t have this Rifle or the better round ??? And buying maybe 5 million rounds of this new and better round to handel out to the troops in Iraq for there patrols or what ever they doing and shooting the old round at the range should not be a problem for a country like the U.S.
I think its the same reason why soldier have to wear older Flakvests instead of IBA or Mich helmets at the beginning of the war.

And i bet you all know why????
MONEY
And that´s the point why somthing is Dropped or not!!! Regardless what weaknesses or Company!!!

Joker