World Cup

Kruska said:
Hello rattler,

unfortunatley - they were quite poor on Chinese TV in regards to replays.

But if memory serves me right from what my eye's believe to have seen, a Spanish player (Fabregas?) was clearly standing already in off side (about 2 m) when the ball was passed to him and when he took the ball and passed it back (away from the Dutch goal) - upon which the ball was shot into the goal from the Spanish player Iniesta, that had received that kicked back ball - No???.

Regards
Kruska
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But Fabregas never touched the ball. It was deflected off a Dutch player, therefore, Fabregas was not involved in the play; and, as rattler so kindly pointed out, a player cannot be penalized for simply being in an offside position.
 
As far as I can tell, this is what happened... Fernando Torres brought the ball down the left side, swung in a cross that got deflected by a Dutch defender (can't tell who it was, video quality is poor) and onto Cesc Fabregas' foot, who passed to Andres Iniesta who was in on goal.
 
Rob Henderson said:
As far as I can tell, this is what happened... Fernando Torres brought the ball down the left side, swung in a cross that got deflected by a Dutch defender (can't tell who it was, video quality is poor) and onto Cesc Fabregas' foot, who passed to Andres Iniesta who was in on goal.
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Hello Rob Henderson,

oh boy - now we are back to square one :D. Since I had the impression that Fabregas was clearly in an off side (Believe me I know what off side is ;)) when he received and passed that ball to Iniesta. - Maybe??!! since I can't recall at that moment any Dutch player standing or crossing between him and the Dutch goalkeeper when he received that ball - but Fabregas was standing about 2 m infront of the Dutch players/defenders when he received that (deflected ball or whatever ball). Anyone got a good recording of that scene ? u-tube doesn't get through in China.

Regards
Kruska
 
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That link I posted earlier has the highlights from the match. The goal starts at about 5:00.

Fabregas was behind a good 3 Dutch defenders. Torres crossed it in, it was deflected, landed at Fabregas' feet, passed to Iniesta, who settled, shot, and scored. I guarantee you (as a referee myself) there was no offside committed.
 
Kruska said:
Anyone got a good recording of that scene ? u-tube doesn't get through in China.
Regards Kruska
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That´s bad with youtube over there, ey?

I have set up a series of screen shots from the scene that will clearly show that never in the whole sequence neither Torres, Iniesta nor Fabregas were offside and that the Dutch defense simply was clearly outwitted by Cesc and Iniesta in a repeat of the same attack sequence when the Dutch players moved out after the intercept of Torres cross to produce an offside:

Here is where the sequence starts, Xavi leads the ball and prepares a pass to Torres, Cesc Fabregas is way behind and starts a sprint towards the box, while Iniesta prepares to get into position:
gol1.jpg


Torres receives the ball in a 4 vs 6 situation, and Fabregas and Iniesta start a parallel run towards the box to present a target for his cross that is to come:
gol2.jpg


Torres waits patiently 2 seconds until Iniesta is in position and then crosses, this is the moment where he touches the ball, Iniesta is NOT offside and not even same height, a legal cross:
gol3.jpg


Iniesta had run free and a Dutch player (Van der Vaart) intercepts the cross (that would almost as surely led to the goal as the one that later happened) in the air and deflects it away from the box, Cesc moves in to pick it up, Iniesta moves out to get out of offside in case Cesc gets the ball:
gol4.jpg


Cesc gets the ball, Iniesta has solved the offside, and VdV is struggling to get off the ground to run out of the box to creayte a new offside:
gol5.jpg


This is the moment when Iniesta changes direction, catching VdV on the wrong foot and when Cesc passes: Clearly no offside, totally legal:
gol6.jpg


Iniesta receives to the dispair of Van der Vaart and the goal is sung:
gol7.jpg


The key was the much higher speed the Spanish developped at this time of the match (the Dutch were a man down, their physical style had tired them, and Cesc/Torres had brought in new sparks) that had more than one chance against the sluggish Dutch defense (who only had the penalties on their mind by then) in this phase.

Hope this helps,

Rattler
 
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Thanks for this rattler. 334, I guess over the long run the best teams, the ones with most points in a league, would have the better stats. I have not checked though, here is your chance to shoot that theory down. Obviously knockout championships have a greater element of luck.
 
yeah but with so many teams you can't expect to really have a 32 team league in the summer.
The current format is about right and I think 32 teams is a good number but certainly the top limit.
 
Hello rattler,

wow - and thanks indeed - that was a big effort by you - and I really appreciate this. It's clear like a cristal ball now - I had somehow not realized or picked up on the part were "VdV is struggling to get off the ground to run out of the box to create a new offside".

I had it kinda fixed in my memory that VdV was aleady in line when Inesta picked up the pass.

Thanks again,

Regards
Kruska
 
Kruska said:
I had it kinda fixed in my memory that VdV was aleady in line when Inesta picked up the pass.
Kruska
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VdV actually was by then (or even behind), but this is not important, as the offside offence is established at the moment the pass is played, being offside receiving is not an offense (and actually the idea of the game and the big task of the strikers: Outwitting/Outmaneuvering the defense: In theory a ball can never enter goal with one defender more than attackers, breaking this situation is what soccer is about - I will neverunderstand why they need 80+ points to win a basketball match, scoring is way too easy methinks), here well done even with a 4 vs 7 at start of sequence, in the end it was 2 vs 4 and goal, a rare but great solution).

If you check the metres thge Dutch moved through all the sequence and compare it to the Spanish you will see the speed difference, I guess as they were in majority in defense (where theoretically nothing wil happen) they sort of relied one on the other (with the exception of Van der Vaart) and hence lost their chance of blocking the attack, the Spanish were simply too fast for them, changing game direction twice in just 4 seconds, looks like the majority of the Dutch were slightly disorientated by then (because of being tired and target focus on penalties).

The same thing had happened to the Spanish twice before, when a sudden pass reached Robben, apruptly changing game direction and catching all the Spanish defense on the wrong foot, but luckily Casillas was up to the task with two spectacular saves (the first, actually Robben had him outwitted sending him to - Casillas - left but shooting right; yet, Casillas - as also being a handball goaly - can make well use of his feet :) ). The Dutch keeper also had some two great parades, so its probably even in this respect).

Glad you like my little sequence,

Rattler
 
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rattler said:
VdV actually was by then (or even behind), but this is not important, as the offside offence is established at the moment the pass is played, being offside receiving is not an offense (and actually the idea of the game and the big task of the strikers: Outwitting the defense).

Glad you like my little sequence,

Rattler
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Hello Rattler,

yes I know now - thanks, like I said, I was under the impression that VdV and the other two Dutch players had already placed Iniesta into off side - before the ball was passed to him ;-).

Regards
Kruska
 
Kruska said:
...yes I know now
Kruska
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I supposed so, just wanted to be clear (also NOTE I edited my above msg a little).

CORRECTION of my sequence, my player designation "Xavi" actually describes "Jesus NAVAS"...

Just because it was so great, here the voice of the radio moderator on "Cope" radio - which I dont fancy, they politically represent the Religious/Franco Right here, but then here at the AotW you dont get much radio anyway so you take what you get and their sports guys are fantastic - I heard (could only watch 95 minutes live):

I think even with reporters the Spanish have the edge on the Dutch (and its also a true record for how the Dutch protested and claimed the goal was illegal right from the moment it fell), an accoustic memory of the most crazy moment in modern Spanish Soccer history (even if you dont understand Spanish you will get that part for sure
give_a_smile2.gif
, and you will understand why it is called "singing" a goal here in Spain): Just mp3, but after Cope all other radios, a total of 8 minutes of different radio moderator views on the goal, I like the 2nd guy best (Radio Nacional Espana, never before have heard anything like it!), and then Radio Ser (with the g-o-l morse code in the rear): http://www.ivoox.com/gol-iniesta-1-0-holanda-narracion-cope-rne-audios-mp3_rf_324848_1.html

Enjoy,

Rattler
 
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Hello Rattler,

yep - just about as mad or enthusiastic as these South Americans and their goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooal :-)

Regards
Kruska
 
Swamp soccer world championships held in Finland

Sodding hell, it's about time the Finnish league paid for some decent groundsmen! :)

Sorry Rattler but Spain got annihilated by Finland in this version of the game!

Stats - No goals, no accurate passes, but Finland still had 3 players left which survived the murky depths of the swamp. So they win.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10675003

In case you can't read it try this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzeH7p-rfyY

Don't say we have to put up with Ads on youtube now! :cry:
 
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perseus said:
Sorry Rattler but Spain got annihilated by Finland in this version of the game!

Stats - No goals, no accurate passes, but Finland still had 3 players left which survived the murky depths of the swamp. So they win. -snip -

Don't say we have to put up with Ads on youtube now! :cry:
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ROFL!!! I concede that the Finnish are the best at this kind of soccer at the moment, looks a lot of fun!

As for the ads, yes, seems to be the case, e.g. half of the clips I searched to find Iniestas goal were simply ads without any conncection whatsovever to their title...

Rattler
 
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