Will United States defend Taiwan against Chinese invasion?
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godofthunder9010
Active member
China is rapidly becoming the largest economy in the world. In order to finish becoming that, their best interests lie in good relations with the USA and the rest of the world that buys their crap. Provoking a major conflict over Taiwan would jeoprodize their economic growth and likely close a lot of markets to them. It would also be a diplomatic nightmare, and their leaders know this. Doesn't mean they won't do it anyway. Communist governments are not well known for doing the intelligent thing.
Once they are the most powerful economy and actually are technologically up-to-date, all bets are off.
Once they are the most powerful economy and actually are technologically up-to-date, all bets are off.
Re: some argument
Well.. I don't mind dying in that case... what a (Saintly) way to die, I should say.
Wasn't Taiwan a Japanese colony for at least 50 years?
Japan got Taiwan because China gave up the island.
That proves the point.. that Taiwan has already been independent from China a century ago. By consent from China at that time.
http://www.wufi.org.tw/eng/timovmnt.htm
http://www.geocities.com/apapadimos/Taiwan_Pages/Taiwan_History_4.htm
http://www.japan-guide.com/forum/disreadisplay.html?0+12411
And now, China wants Taiwan back.
I think China suddenly becomes aware of Taiwan due to Taiwanese investment in China when China opened up its economy in 1980s. Now China got a taste that Taiwan has $$$ and is therefore eyeing the island.
Previously, before opening its economy, communist China doesn't understand what $$$ can do and so forgot Taiwan from 1950s to late 1970s.
But a communist China doing business and loving $$$ doesn't make it democratic. In fact, as fanatical as China was with Communist doctrines from '50s to late '70s, now the fanaticism has become for the love of money $$$. Money tastes good, now China knows. But that doesn't make China less communist. It's just a distorted way of Communism..
And when Communism turns Greedy, it'll be Ugly..
proteinxx said:
Well.. I don't mind dying in that case... what a (Saintly) way to die, I should say.Wasn't Taiwan a Japanese colony for at least 50 years?
Japan got Taiwan because China gave up the island.
That proves the point.. that Taiwan has already been independent from China a century ago. By consent from China at that time.
http://www.wufi.org.tw/eng/timovmnt.htm
http://www.geocities.com/apapadimos/Taiwan_Pages/Taiwan_History_4.htm
http://www.japan-guide.com/forum/disreadisplay.html?0+12411
And now, China wants Taiwan back.
I think China suddenly becomes aware of Taiwan due to Taiwanese investment in China when China opened up its economy in 1980s. Now China got a taste that Taiwan has $$$ and is therefore eyeing the island.
Previously, before opening its economy, communist China doesn't understand what $$$ can do and so forgot Taiwan from 1950s to late 1970s.
But a communist China doing business and loving $$$ doesn't make it democratic. In fact, as fanatical as China was with Communist doctrines from '50s to late '70s, now the fanaticism has become for the love of money $$$. Money tastes good, now China knows. But that doesn't make China less communist. It's just a distorted way of Communism..
And when Communism turns Greedy, it'll be Ugly..
GuyontheRight
Active member
They must not have been seen that way back In 1776, no one could tell how we would end up. Yes, founding a country could lead to bad things, But If you belive In Democracy, then you must accept the principals of natural unalienable rights. One of these rights Is to be governed as a sovriegn nation. If they choose to rebel, let them, who are you to stop them?
GuyontheRight
Active member
proteinxx,
You make a good point In democracy, and God knows I have doubts about the system. Your right of course, why cant anyone have their own democracy, their own country. Frankly, I think Taiwan, If they feel they are different enough of the manland Chinese, have the right to govern according to the wishes of there people, just how your so called "Texas Redneck's,", which I assume you mean Evangical Christians, should have a right to set up there own society, because the rest of society does not accomidate their needs.
It's obviouse English is not your first language, so I am having a problem understanding just what you mean. Now I do not know what the Taiwanese people want, but they should be able to get what they want, and If they want Independece, let them have It. There is no hidden meaning to going to war with China, In fact the US probobly wont intervein If Taiwan is invaded. But remember who's going to be killing whom Sir, and that In such a situation, the Chinese will be the ones blowing up school and offices.
You make a good point In democracy, and God knows I have doubts about the system. Your right of course, why cant anyone have their own democracy, their own country. Frankly, I think Taiwan, If they feel they are different enough of the manland Chinese, have the right to govern according to the wishes of there people, just how your so called "Texas Redneck's,", which I assume you mean Evangical Christians, should have a right to set up there own society, because the rest of society does not accomidate their needs.
It's obviouse English is not your first language, so I am having a problem understanding just what you mean. Now I do not know what the Taiwanese people want, but they should be able to get what they want, and If they want Independece, let them have It. There is no hidden meaning to going to war with China, In fact the US probobly wont intervein If Taiwan is invaded. But remember who's going to be killing whom Sir, and that In such a situation, the Chinese will be the ones blowing up school and offices.
GuyontheRight
Active member
Because democracy Is not fair, and democracy Is not perfect. I think very much like you, I am skeptical of democracy, because I see that it is hypocritical In nature.
That congressmen you refer to, probobly does not want his position of power to be overlooked, he doesn't want to loose his influence. The same questions arose during the civil war.
But lets get back on topic....
That congressmen you refer to, probobly does not want his position of power to be overlooked, he doesn't want to loose his influence. The same questions arose during the civil war.
But lets get back on topic....
Lil Hulk 1988
Active member
Taiwan....
GuyontheRight said:
Because of different ideology, people will kill each other... even those of similar race. Ideology can either unite former enemies (like Japan is US ally -- but enemies in WW2. Germany is ally now though Germany in WW2 was an enemy).
so I think China will just invade and kill Taiwanese without any guilty conscience because Taiwan has a different political ideology from China.
anyway, invasion or threat of invasion is wrong. 8)
so I think China will just invade and kill Taiwanese without any guilty conscience because Taiwan has a different political ideology from China.
anyway, invasion or threat of invasion is wrong. 8)
godofthunder9010
Active member
Re: Taiwan....
Exactly the point I was making as well. If China provoked a closure of US and European markets, they would collapse their fledgelng economy. I don't think they are ready for that kind of outcome, hardline Communist Party members or not. Even the hardliners should know better. I doubt they'll be stupid enough to make such a move until they feel that they have surpassed the West and that's a long ways off ATM.Lil Hulk 1988 said:
I don't care about the politics of the thing, Taiwan deserves independence, and the threat of Mainland China invading is ever present if we do not defend Taiwan there will be hell to pay across the board. Not juts in the US most likely the president would be impeached, European nations would mobilize and after a year the UN would probably ratify a War resolution which requires a certain number of nations to fight I believe. But Many European nations would mobilize, the coalition would be huge and I believe we might have to invade the mainland in order to be successful.
ok I don't think this would happen, because our navy is being downsized, when Taiwan would be attacked we'd mobilize our navy bringing up new sailors, we would have a long time to get ready because a shakedown cruise on a ship that had only been put in the reserve fleet for a year takes awhile to be overhauled.
Mod Edit: Do not make back to back posts. Include your quotes and comments in one post.
GuyontheRight said:
ok I don't think this would happen, because our navy is being downsized, when Taiwan would be attacked we'd mobilize our navy bringing up new sailors, we would have a long time to get ready because a shakedown cruise on a ship that had only been put in the reserve fleet for a year takes awhile to be overhauled.
Mod Edit: Do not make back to back posts. Include your quotes and comments in one post.
FlyingFrog
Active member
Fun to read your posts.
Get this straight:
1. No matter what, if taiwan does independence, it is war. Point.
2. China will not lose the war, China has all means to take taiwan, if things turn urgly during the war, sorry taiwanese, there will be nukes put in, like USA did in Japan. Of course not hot nukes, just neutron mini nukes to take out any large-scale resistance.
3. Taiwan is taken, USA sactions come, then China collapse? Give me a break to laugh, China was blocked after Korea War by almost ALL Western, so what? China still OK, nobody will die from hunger, and the Communist leaders still drive in Big Cars and live in Villa's, they don't give a dammn sh*t about sanction.
4. If Western get crazy with sanctions, OK, China will get crazy too, massive production of all kinds Nukes, flooding all mini nukes plus hot nukes to ALL Western enemies (there are a lot of them in the world). So happy every one.
5. Saint: we start to know more and more about Singpaporens now. To take on you, very easy, we sell nukes to Indonesia and Malaysia, we can missile nukes to Sigpapore city in 2 hours, finish you in 2 hours, happy? Don't be mad, if China is able to assure MAD (you know what MAD means?), then nobody can really bully China at all.
6. Last month, Chinese government has announced that they will put MORE money in strategic weapons to assure more MAD, preparing for the ugliest to come. Think about USSR with those nukes, USA didn't dare to confront USSR at all, simply because it is suicide to do that.
Don't think you always have the upper-hand, Korea War and Vietnam War all have proven what is a paper tiger
Give peace a chance, don't push too hard, before it is TOO late :lol:
Get this straight:
1. No matter what, if taiwan does independence, it is war. Point.
2. China will not lose the war, China has all means to take taiwan, if things turn urgly during the war, sorry taiwanese, there will be nukes put in, like USA did in Japan. Of course not hot nukes, just neutron mini nukes to take out any large-scale resistance.
3. Taiwan is taken, USA sactions come, then China collapse? Give me a break to laugh, China was blocked after Korea War by almost ALL Western, so what? China still OK, nobody will die from hunger, and the Communist leaders still drive in Big Cars and live in Villa's, they don't give a dammn sh*t about sanction.
4. If Western get crazy with sanctions, OK, China will get crazy too, massive production of all kinds Nukes, flooding all mini nukes plus hot nukes to ALL Western enemies (there are a lot of them in the world). So happy every one.
5. Saint: we start to know more and more about Singpaporens now. To take on you, very easy, we sell nukes to Indonesia and Malaysia, we can missile nukes to Sigpapore city in 2 hours, finish you in 2 hours, happy? Don't be mad, if China is able to assure MAD (you know what MAD means?), then nobody can really bully China at all.
6. Last month, Chinese government has announced that they will put MORE money in strategic weapons to assure more MAD, preparing for the ugliest to come. Think about USSR with those nukes, USA didn't dare to confront USSR at all, simply because it is suicide to do that.
Don't think you always have the upper-hand, Korea War and Vietnam War all have proven what is a paper tiger
Give peace a chance, don't push too hard, before it is TOO late :lol:
godofthunder9010
Active member
Well, consider how well the UN did coming to the aid of Tibet. I think that gives some idea how it would play out if China does invade Taiwan. IMHO, the Korean Conflict was the one and only time that the UN will ever approve any military action anywhere near China.
If China is in such a hurry to start WW3 over a tiny island that hasn't been under their control to any degree for almost 60 years, I'd say that's pretty damned reckless and stupid. If China wanted to start it all now, they'll lose. If they're smart enough to wait, they'd win.
So China's all caught up now? Wow, that was quick. Last I checked, China was still about 10-15 years behind every other developed country in technology and industrial development. The standard of living in China ranks lower than many third world countries. The US and Japan still have greater economic output even though both have only a tiny fraction of China's population.
If China is in such a hurry to start WW3 over a tiny island that hasn't been under their control to any degree for almost 60 years, I'd say that's pretty damned reckless and stupid. If China wanted to start it all now, they'll lose. If they're smart enough to wait, they'd win.
GuyontheRight
Active member
Your the ones considering invading Taiwan, so don't tell me about "giving peace a chance".
Chocobo_Blitzer
Active member
No, the US would be in the wrong for aiding the aggresser, Taiwan, for declareing independence.
or at least that's the supposed logic.
or at least that's the supposed logic.
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