WILL GERMANY RISE AGAIN: FOURTH REICH?

In my view, the Fourth Reich has already arisen. I agree with the many posters who see this "rise" as an economic one. I don't see Germany trying to conquer militarily but rather assuming their place as one of the world's most enlightened, prosperous, and forward-thinking nations. Deuschland,Deutschland uber alles in dem Welt!!!
 
I've been to Germany many times. It really is a beautiful country and the people were so wonderful to interact with. I doubt modern Germans would tolerate finding themselves on the wrong side of history yet again. If there is another German empire it will be economic, not military. Just my thoughts.
 
Well one thing you might consider is that the old left-liberal '68 generation is dieing and their children live on social help because they now realize that their liberal way of educating children just... well... failed to say it friendly.
So the situation in Germany might change to a rather conservative position under the new defense minister. But the "Entnazifizierung" was very effective! There will most defenitely be no 4th Reich.
I hope some day we will get our balls back, and there will be a time when German Officers will be respected again- not spit at (that really happens a lot in Germany). As German Soldier you actually earn more respect from Countries who were our fiercest Enemies in War-time, than from German ppl. Sounds weird but sadly that is true. Though I think there is a positive evolvement of things...
 
SAINT said:
:? The situation that bad? Can't Germans be proud of their country openly? :?:
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Yes....but German friends I've had did not want to go down that road again.
I don't think a leader who's looking at war and conquest as what Germany needs...would have any broad credibility. Germany was prepared to fight back when the Warsaw pact was a threat...and right next door. However...that's a much different perspective.

The situation is similar with Japan. Like Germany, they are doing better with peace then they did with aggression.
 
I agree wholeheartedly. The Germany of today leads Europe, highly respected opinion and position; the last thing it needs are reminders of its revolting past. It is its stand on bon-firing such horrors that give Germany its powerful voice. It needs bombast and aggresssion like a hole in the head.
 
ObjSRgtLw said:
Well one thing you might consider is that the old left-liberal '68 generation is dieing and their children live on social help because they now realize that their liberal way of educating children just... well... failed to say it friendly.
So the situation in Germany might change to a rather conservative position under the new defense minister. But the "Entnazifizierung" was very effective! There will most defenitely be no 4th Reich.
I hope some day we will get our balls back, and there will be a time when German Officers will be respected again- not spit at (that really happens a lot in Germany). As German Soldier you actually earn more respect from Countries who were our fiercest Enemies in War-time, than from German ppl. Sounds weird but sadly that is true. Though I think there is a positive evolvement of things...
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I hope that one day the German armed forces can get the respect from the people that you deserve. You have a very responsible proven military. I had the great honor to be posted for a year to the German Navy in 1986 and I would specifically say that the German NCO's in my opinion are the best educated in the world. You can remove all officers from any German unit and it will still be fighting skillfully.

Germany has really learned from the past and I find it only natural that Germany today stands as the leader of Europe. We have nothing to be afraid of. Germany is today a country which has proven its responsibilities.
 
Seehund said:
I hope that one day the German armed forces can get the respect from the people that you deserve.
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I doubt that this could happen during my lifetime. Since the Soccer Word Championship in 2006 people seem to get a little bit prouder of their country and even if there is no sports event you can see a flag here or there, but the armed forces at best could count on a ‘friendly indifference’ of the people. I am proud of my uniform and my country and nobody can change that.
 
no, they do not have the resources they did back then plus the mentality now is completely different with the youth then it was when there was hardly a radio to be heard, social networking now......I just dont see it happening, worse case scenario would be internal (within the country) revolt against it's own government just like Egypt IMO...
 
I dont think so.Germans lost thair battle spirit.In the past thay were nation of soldiers ,now - nation of bürgers with beer.
Plus liberalism,tolleranse and another c**p/
 
1.Germans are resilient and tough people. It will by myopic to imagine they have converted to vegetable. They are slowly becoming aware of their past greatness and prowess. The incessant bombings (which we now know were unnecessary after they had sought surrender terms), the molestation and killings after the surrender and the continued hunting of Nazis after the war, will not fail to make impression on the German of today and future.

2. We are talking of human spirit here. It is not, will the Germans rise again, the question is when.
 
rocky71 said:
1.Germans are resilient and tough people. It will by myopic to imagine they have converted to vegetable. They are slowly becoming aware of their past greatness and prowess. The incessant bombings (which we now know were unnecessary after they had sought surrender terms), the molestation and killings after the surrender and the continued hunting of Nazis after the war, will not fail to make impression on the German of today and future.

2. We are talking of human spirit here. It is not, will the Germans rise again, the question is when.
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Sounds interesting. How do you assess that?
 
Seehund said:
Sounds interesting. How do you assess that?
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1. Just outside Munich at a road island there is a memorial for the German soldiers who had marched into Russia and death under Napoleon. Will the German youth not be asking himself, "Where is the memorial for our dead in WW II? They were my father, grandfather, etc."

2. Germans are slowly and cautiously learning their side of the story about the rise and reign of Hitler and the war. It will not be easy very soon to convince ordinary Germans that Hitler was a mad man, and that the Nazis were nothing but blood thirsty criminals. They must be asking themselves, if all these were true then how come so many Germans willingly sacrificed themselves on the call of Hitler?

3. Germany is the largest unit in EU in terms of economy and population. They remain a disciplined and patriotic society. It is inevitable that in decades to come they will dominate EU.
 
Umm I am not sure I understand the point to this thread as surely Germany has risen already however instead of invading the world it has discovered that it is much cheaper to buy it, essentially instead of trying to become a military power it became an economic one.
 
rocky71 said:
1. Just outside Munich at a road island there is a memorial for the German soldiers who had marched into Russia and death under Napoleon. Will the German youth not be asking himself, "Where is the memorial for our dead in WW II? They were my father, grandfather, etc."

2. Germans are slowly and cautiously learning their side of the story about the rise and reign of Hitler and the war. It will not be easy very soon to convince ordinary Germans that Hitler was a mad man, and that the Nazis were nothing but blood thirsty criminals. They must be asking themselves, if all these were true then how come so many Germans willingly sacrificed themselves on the call of Hitler?

3. Germany is the largest unit in EU in terms of economy and population. They remain a disciplined and patriotic society. It is inevitable that in decades to come they will dominate EU.
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1. Many towns and even small villages in Germany have war memorials (Denkmäler) to their sons who have fallen in battle. These monuments are the sites for annual memorial ceremonies, very similar to Memorial Day in America. These services take place on two Sundays in November - Volkstrauertag and Totensonntag (the last two Sundays before Advent).

2. Germany's own confrontation with the time 1933-45 is bluntly exemplary. No country, no nation has more recently taken a so mercilessly honest and brutally thorough reckoning with guilt and responsibility as the generation of Germans born after the Second World War. The showdown is repeated with cyclic regularity: Every generation starts from scratch simply by discussing the great existential questions related to the horrendous 12 years during the Third Reich.

The war ended over 66 years ago and there is hardly a German left with a personal memory of the Hitler era. Nevertheless, the Germans feel a special obligation to learn from a very special story to guard against duplication and to lead by example. The large, collective displacement of the war was replaced by the war criminal processes in the 1960s and since then every stone has been turned more than once. To accuse Germany not to deal with its past is simply a lack of understanding of German history after the war.

3. For Germany, the EU is in particular a European project that many of its neighbors can only have respect for. The booming Germany could walk alone. But Germany holds on to ideals and its self-imposed obligation - also a tribute to history - to act as the European dynamo. Germany is very much the small EU countries' friend and protector. It is terrifying to think how Denmark had been today, if not Helmut Kohl had acceded to the idea of the four Danish opt to Maastricht in 1992.

In every respect, Germany has taken a step back, self-imposed moderation and restraint - and been ready to write large checks out to save the good tone in EU cooperation. Germany's performances in the European sphere and Germany's confrontation with themselves and their history - expressed in German: Vergangenheitsbewältigung (a composite German word that describes processes of dealing with the past Vergangenheit = past; Bewältigung = coming to terms with, mastering, which is perhaps best rendered in English as "struggle to come to terms with the past"). - is from beginning to end entirely admirable. Germany today is a democratic model and a fine example of how one can rise above even the greatest historical trauma, if you have the will to

With its central location, Germany has had a decisive influence on European history. Today the country with its 83 million inhabitants is the most populous in Europe. Germany's economy is also the largest in the EU and the third largest worldwide. As the world's largest exporting nation the country is considered the economy engine in Europe. But if you think we will see a nationalist Germany, then you have not understood the process, Germany has been through.
 
I seriously doubt Germany will ever be a threat again. It will never forget the price it paid for the Second World War. Millions killed, whole cities destroyed, half of the country was practically enslaved by the Soviets for decades. Trying to conquer the world just doesn't seem like it's worth the risk.
 
Unfortunately, you are forever linked to what history your nation or people had and that will always be a factor regardless of the time. You just have to learn to live with it. Yes, Germany did start the second world war, yes Germany was responsible for the atrocities against the Jews and just about all the horrors that went on in Europe. This will never change and will be present until the day you die. You have to accept that fact.

It's just like us Americans with the Indians and the whole black slave ownership ordeal. Scars are still present in our society today and always come out in debates and arguments. To say it's wrong and unjust for your nation's past to be constantly brought up is actually quite selfish seeing as how many people were lost due to the actions of your grandparents. Just the way it is. I know people take stuff too far and totally miss the point, but I can understand why Germany steers away from National Pride. 55 million long dead souls can agree with me I think if they were around.

We all gotta understand where pride leads. Give an inch, some take a mile. Next thing you know, pride turns into anger. Anger turns into vengeance. Vengeance turns into actions and the next thing you know another group has to fly across the world to put some German ass back in it's place. Sorry, but those cats got a track record. Just like North Koreans Palestinians.
 
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to rock71, thats the price you pay for trying to impose your will on an entire continent. if you dish it, you gotta be willing to take it. in this case germany took it.
 
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