Were Draft Dodgers Cowards?

LeEnfield said:
Ted....They were drafted for WW1 & 2 and I don't think many men refused to go or tried to dodge the call up. Then there was Korea before Vietnam and those that were called went. So why is it now that some people feel that they are to valuable to put their life in harms way for their Country, they are happy enough to enjoy the liberties that the other men died protecting, so just why should they enjoy what there country has to offer while refusing to fight for it.
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That is why I made the seperation between "defensive" and "offensive" ones. In the first, you are attacked and call upon your able bodied men to fight this agression. I think one is obliged to go of to war and defend your country.
In the latter you attack another nation for something to gain. This is a war I would not want to fight, for I think it is wrong to start a war.

But tell me, what "liberties" did the GI's protect in Indo-China? I have never understood what the US was fighting for and I certainly don't think there was something to enjoy because of this attack. In my opinion it was a war that should not have been fought. And I reckon that the Domino-theory they used for justefying this war was a complete sham. Even if uncle Ho was a commie (I think it was more nationalism adapted for an agricultural society) do you really think the entire region would collapse?
 
Ted said:
That is why I made the seperation between "defensive" and "offensive" ones. In the first, you are attacked and call upon your able bodied men to fight this agression. I think one is obliged to go of to war and defend your country.
In the latter you attack another nation for something to gain. This is a war I would not want to fight, for I think it is wrong to start a war.

But tell me, what "liberties" did the GI's protect in Indo-China? I have never understood what the US was fighting for and I certainly don't think there was something to enjoy because of this attack. In my opinion it was a war that should not have been fought. And I reckon that the Domino-theory they used for justefying this war was a complete sham. Even if uncle Ho was a commie (I think it was more nationalism adapted for an agricultural society) do you really think the entire region would collapse?
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In my opinion it was a question of duty. Whether someone chose to respond to the call with their service or chose to sit around and debate the merits of the politics or whether or not it was worth their while are the difference between two completely different kinds of people. As soldiers we rarely discussed the merits or lack thereof if the Domino theory.
In my case, I was not drafted. I left college to enlist in the Army after hearing all the academic debates and discussions of the day. I looked around at those who were spouting their percieved expertise and then looked toward the men who were actually doing the fighting and losing their lives, some of which I had grown up with and I weighed the merits on both sides of the real life situation. I based my decision on what I saw, heard, and what I knew was happening. Although I had any number of choices, I chose to fight as an infantryman. I have never regretted my decision and I have always had the utmost respect for those who chose a similar path.
You asked if we thought the entire area would collapse. I don't know about "collapse" but the theory concerned the spread of communism. For the answer one just has to look toward Vietnam's neighbors, Laos and Cambodia which were attacked by the Vietnamese. I know a lot of Vietnamese who would disagree that there were no rights worth fighting for and I'm sure there are many, many more that were sent to the communists' "re-education" centers.
 
What part of coward don't you understand?

Duty, honor, country are the keystone of a soldier's life - those who absconded to Canada (because of cowardice) to escape the draft had no honor and wouldn't understand duty if it bit them in the nether regions.....as far as country, when they chose to turn their backs (with yellow stripe) on the United States, their citizenship should have been revoked immediately and they should not have been allowed to return to this country.....
Period.
 
Sad thing is there are a number of U.S. Servicemen who flee to Canada now (Read this in an Article of GQ) to aviod going to Iraq. Some of them complaign that "the recuiter lied to me" or "it wasn't in my contract to go overseas". Well I say frackin bad.

This is of course a different issue from draft dodgers altogether since they already swore an oath to serve, and are deserters(sp?).

To be honest I don't understand why we had a draft during Veitnam. At that point having a draft it only degraded the U.S. Military.
 
I too have respect for the men that choose to go of to war. This choice omits the fact whether it was a righteous war or not. He made a choice and once made you can't go back.
I too have contempt for the people who do talk on tv show on how the war should be run and make the calls, but never wore a uniform. You don't need bureaucrats to make decisions over lifes like they are expendable pawns.
Once in the service you are a soldier and you are told what to do... simple as that.
But what I am aiming at Chief are the people who don't want to be a soldier. These people exist also. Not everybody is a fighter and should carry a rifle! If your convictions are against armed combat and the killing of a fellow men, merely because the brass & bureaucrats point him out as the enemy, and you are told to go, eventhough you never choose to become a soldier, you can disobey that.

This is of course a different issue from draft dodgers altogether since they already swore an oath to serve, and are deserters(sp?).
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They haven't sworn that oath yet, and would do that out of free will. And I, for one, would like one of those besides me when the doodoo hits the van!
 
Ted said:
But what I am aiming at Chief are the people who don't want to be a soldier. These people exist also. Not everybody is a fighter and should carry a rifle! If your convictions are against armed combat and the killing of a fellow men, merely because the brass & bureaucrats point him out as the enemy, and you are told to go, even though you never choose to become a soldier, you can disobey that.

They haven't sworn that oath yet, and would do that out of free will. And I, for one, would like one of those besides me when the doodoo hits the van!
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I remember a young man named "Cassius Clay" who had converted to Islam who told the US government that if called he wouldn't serve and chose to go to prison instead of serving. I HAVE ABSOLUTE ADMIRATION FOR MOHAMAD ALI - HE CHOSE TO STANDFAST IN HIS BELIEFS AND PAY THE PRICE. HE DID NOT RUN TO CANADA.

I also remember three young men who were conscientious objectors who became Medical Corpsmen and served in Vietnam - two of the three were killed and the third was seriously injured while picking up wounded in no-man's land. (I could have been one of the wounded).

There is always an answer if your beliefs are strong enough and you are willing to pay the price. Running is the sign of cowardice - even if the cowardice is only cowardice of character.

For those who run (for whatever reason) - I WILL FOR EVER AND EVER AND EVER CALL THEM COWARDS. No one will ever convince me that they weren't.............
 
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It is better to be a living coward than a dead pawn.

It is better to be a dead hero than a living coward.

Pick one and there's your side.

Edit in response to the next post: Yeah, I actually believe both of these statements.
 
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major liability said:
It is better to be a living coward than a dead pawn.

It is better to be a dead hero than a living coward.

Pick one and there's your side.

Edit in response to the next post: Yeah, I actually believe both of these statements.
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And what do you do for a living? Where do you live?
 
jedi078 said:
And what do you do for a living? Where do you live?
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I'm not in the military. That was my opinion as a civilian.

I'm in my junior year at high school, and I live in Upstate NY.

[edit] Oops, looks like my profile was set to "active duty." Must've been the forums change or something, as I originally set it to civilian.
 
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Chief Bones said:
He's active military and should know better. He is from Salem Oregon.
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If you’re talking about me I am no longer on active duty, although I do live in Salem, Oregon, and what do you mean by “he should know better”?

All I did was ask a question, since the person I quoted has no info in their profile (and for good reason as they have stated they are a minor).

The reason I asked the questions: “What do you do for a living? Where do you live?” is because I needed more information in order to decide what kind of reply would be prudent instead of just stating “Bull”.

In this case major liability is a young idealistic person, and you can’t fault someone like that for making that type of statement for that very reason.
 
To be fair we should also talk about the hundreds of thousands of South Vietnamese men who dodged the draft... and it was THEIR country!
 
Philosophers were a dime a dozen, what we needed was trained soldiers that were capable of doing a dirty job that many thought they were too important for. Unfortunately, too many of our best died face down in the mud far away and some are still there in their nightmares.
 
jedi078 said:
If you’re talking about me I am no longer on active duty, although I do live in Salem, Oregon, and what do you mean by “he should know better”? ...............
In this case major liability is a young idealistic person, and you can’t fault someone like that for making that type of statement for that very reason.
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My apologies...I hit the wrong profile button and chose your profile by mistake and didn't catch the error prior to posting....the 'BULL' was in response to his post, not to your query and the 'BULL' IS a valid response from an ex military man..I can ALSO fault him for making that kind of statement even if he is a minor - if he is old enough to post on this forum then he is old enough for someone to find fault with a comment he has made.
 
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It is better to be a living coward than a dead pawn.
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Any American that really believes this statement should drop to their knees daily, and thank whatever God they believe in that there are Soldiers, Airman, Sailors, Marines, Policemen, EMT's, Paramedics, Correctional Officers, SAR Techs, Firemen, and any other "pawns" of the system that are ready to step into harms way to protect or save you.
 
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Forrest_Gump said:
Any American that really believes this statement should drop to their knees daily, and thank whatever God they believe in that there are Soldiers, Airman, Sailors, Marines, Policemen, EMT's, Paramedics, Correctional Officers, SAR Techs, Firemen, and any other "pawns" of the system that are ready to step into harms way to protect or save you.
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That's taking it a bit too far. I have utmost respect for all of these people and I don't consider them "pawns," however that is what a draftee in Viet Nam would've been in my opinion.
 
major liability said:
That's taking it a bit too far. I have utmost respect for all of these people and I don't consider them "pawns," however that is what a draftee in Viet Nam would've been in my opinion.
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Nope, wrong again. The draftees showed that they were made of the best stuff just like the volunteers were. And I'll bet you won't find a real one who will agree with your description of them.
 
major liability said:
That's taking it a bit too far. I have utmost respect for all of these people and I don't consider them "pawns," however that is what a draftee in Viet Nam would've been in my opinion.
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Thats one of those statements that really make me glad this system won't let me type bad words.

News flash Mister High School Junior. To call any Man or women who served their country when called whether as a Draftee or as Volunteer does a disservice to them regardless of what your Oh so informed opinion (I'm sure) is of the Vietnam War that was in very poor taste.
 
Don't care if a teenager

Chief Bones said:
Bull.
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I don't give two hoots whether this individual is a teen or not, when he makes these types of idiotic statements about the warriors who fought and died in Vietnam...then.....I reiterate
Chief Bones said:
Bull.
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