USS Liberty - Israel's "War of Self Defense"

Hmmm said:
LOL! Boy I love them nembies! Talking to ghosts! ROFL!
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Would you care to elaborate.

I have googled the word "nembies" and nothing that comes up make any sense in relation to this thread.

"Talking to Ghosts"? once again, what are you talking about in relation to this thread.
 
senojekips said:
Would you care to elaborate.

I have googled the word "nembies" and nothing that comes up make any sense in relation to this thread.

"Talking to Ghosts"? once again, what are you talking about in relation to this thread.
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It's called a Tiepoe. :rockin:

I figure he's talking to ghosts since that guy Phoenix80- ain't around no mo.
 
I read somewhere that Israel attacked USS Liberty after they witnessed the murder of 60 Egyptian POWs, I'm not sure though.
 
ScarabVenom said:
I read somewhere that Israel attacked USS Liberty after they witnessed the murder of 60 Egyptian POWs, I'm not sure though.
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I dunno that we'll ever find out the real reason as the US administration of the time seemed as anxious to cover it up as the Israelis were.

Personally my own theory is that the Israelis knew the Liberty was only lightly armed and hoped that they could sink it quickly before they were identified, blame the Egyptians and bring the US into their war.

One only has to read the accounts of the Israelis and the "Official" US investigation, then compare them with the crew's accounts and it soon becomes blatantly obvious that there is a whitewash.

There was also the report of a disaffected Israeli pilot who stated that he informed his controllers that the vessel was a US warship, but was ordered to continue the attack.

[SIZE=+1]Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot's radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.
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senojekips said:
I dunno that we'll ever find out the real reason as the US administration of the time seemed as anxious to cover it up as the Israelis were.

Personally my own theory is that the Israelis knew the Liberty was only lightly armed and hoped that they could sink it quickly before they were identified, blame the Egyptians and bring the US into their war.

One only has to read the accounts of the Israelis and the "Official" US investigation, then compare them with the crew's accounts and it soon becomes blatantly obvious that there is a whitewash.

There was also the report of a disaffected Israeli pilot who stated that he informed his controllers that the vessel was a US warship, but was ordered to continue the attack.

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Yeah, you might be right. I also don't understand how America would allow anybody to mess with it. I think it's because people in the administration by the time felt closer to Israel more than just an ally. Or maybe America needs Israel as an ally to maintain power through it so, they don't want to ruin the friendship or alliance between them. If it was an Arabic country, I believe America would involve militarily right away. In case they tried to cover up the 60 Egyptian POWs we have stronger proof of burying 250 Egyptian POWs alive after making them dig their own graves.
 
I haven't been through all the pages here in this thread, so it may have been mentioned before, but...
Back in the days of -67 the bonds between Israel and the USA wasn't that tight, Israel relying more upon French, and to some extent British, support in many ways.
No doubth the US administration was eager to gain a foothold in the Middle-East, and that could explain why the USS Liberty-case was covered up so willingly.

Gonagle deserved far better treatment than he got, but as a loyal officer he kept his tongue and mind in leash

As for the Israeli reasons for the attack on the USS Liberty, one can only speculate.
 
senojekips said:
I dunno that we'll ever find out the real reason as the US administration of the time seemed as anxious to cover it up as the Israelis were.

Personally my own theory is that the Israelis knew the Liberty was only lightly armed and hoped that they could sink it quickly before they were identified, blame the Egyptians and bring the US into their war.

One only has to read the accounts of the Israelis and the "Official" US investigation, then compare them with the crew's accounts and it soon becomes blatantly obvious that there is a whitewash.

There was also the report of a disaffected Israeli pilot who stated that he informed his controllers that the vessel was a US warship, but was ordered to continue the attack.

Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.
Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot's radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.
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Again your quote is baseless and comes from anti-israeli websites. Again you swallowed it without looking at official documents.

That quote is very easily to counter because there was an investigation of the House Armed Services Committee in June 1991. Clearly they would have gotten the information you mention. The result of that investigation : no evidence for a deliberate attack.

This article from the BBC is more neutral : Why did Israel attack USS Liberty?

An even better report is this one : A Lie That Deserves to Die

Here's the info from the NSA:

On 08 June 2007, the National Security Agency (NSA) finalized the review of all material relative to the 08 June 1967 attack on the USS Liberty. This additional release adds to the collection of documents and audio recordings and transcripts previously posted to the site on 02 July 2003.
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you can find it here.

The Audio Recordings & Transcripts are here.

But like always, when the truth arrives the damage is already done.
 
I'm quite sure that the attack was no mistake. Whether it was authorized at the highest levels of the Israeli government or whether it was a rogue officer who ordered it is not clear. At the time of the attack, there were massacres going on in the refugee camps and the Israelis were holding the perimeters of the camps while various Arab factions did the killing. The Israelis obviously didn't want their radio communications being monitored about that incident and radio monitoring was one of the Liberty's missions. One of my boyhood friends was on the ship and told me the whole story of the attack as he saw it.
 
as fare as i know the israeli air force and navy attack USS Liberty to blame egypt of doing it and to make usa join the war and the fleet admiral asked the president for retaliation and saving USS Liberty but the president denied
and the us sailors identify the fighters as israeli and raised ( hold ) a big US flag but the attack didn't stop and israel send some ships but they don't do nothing
me if i was that fleet commander i would send my navy destroy the israeli attacking ships and fighter and don't care about the rest
 
Did this really happen indicates the American mindset , to me its inconceivable that an American any American is not familiar with the Liberty incident , is this not discussed in schools ? American schools at least , as far as I can determine Israel has no answer for their actions , none .
 
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Strange

Remington 1858 said:
I'm quite sure that the attack was no mistake. Whether it was authorized at the highest levels of the Israeli government or whether it was a rogue officer who ordered it is not clear. At the time of the attack, there were massacres going on in the refugee camps and the Israelis were holding the perimeters of the camps while various Arab factions did the killing. The Israelis obviously didn't want their radio communications being monitored about that incident and radio monitoring was one of the Liberty's missions. One of my boyhood friends was on the ship and told me the whole story of the attack as he saw it.
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Sure doesn't sound like a mix-up with an Egyptian ship. Sound like it was a big time cover-up. The thing is why did the US send the Liberty there in the 1st place, if it wasn't to gather intelligence? Then when they did what they were supposed to, they let the Liberty get attacked big time. The Israeli pilots reported seeing the American flag and were apparently told to ignore it. I believe one pilot was court-martialed for refusing to attack the American ship.
 
tetvet said:
Did this really happen indicates the American mindset , to me its inconceivable that an American any American is not familiar with the Liberty incident , is this not discussed in schools ? American schools at least , as far as I can determine Israel has no answer for their actions , none .
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Lots of history isn't covered, much less the obscure. I suspect those not "into" history aren't aware of her sister ship, USS Pueblo, being seized by the N. Koreans and that got a lot of Press at the time.

"Sure doesn't sound like a mix-up with an Egyptian ship. Sound like it was a big time cover-up. The thing is why did the US send the Liberty there in the 1st place, if it wasn't to gather intelligence? Then when they did what they were supposed to, they let the Liberty get attacked big time. The Israeli pilots reported seeing the American flag and were apparently told to ignore it. I believe one pilot was court-martialed for refusing to attack the American ship."

It should be noted that the US wasn't really allies of Israel until after the 6 Day War. Probably why they didn't want us eavesdropping on their coms. If the Incident was publisized it would have derailed any alliance with them.
 
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When we consider the fact that Israel and the U.S. are supposedly big buddies we must also consider the Liberty , my own feeling are what do we need Israel for ? .
 
tetvet said:
When we consider the fact that Israel and the U.S. are supposedly big buddies we must also consider the Liberty , my own feeling are what do we need Israel for ? .
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You never needed Israel for anything but as long as they have purchased your politicians you can't rid yourselves of them either it is a rather parasitic relationship, they keep you politicians in money and your politicians keep Israel in an unquestionable occupation where they can get away with murder.
 
I am certainly aware that Israel and The U.S. have often had a divergence of objectives. But, it is important to remember that Israel offers a Western- oriented base right in the middle of a strategically vital area, especially now that our enemies and their enemies are one in the same.. Furthermore, the Israelis have no compunction about the use of swift, violent and illegal methods in dealing with threats, something Western politicians pee their pants about. Israel is going to be of ever increasing importance in Global War Against Terror Phase 2, ( GWOT II). You can believe that they will take every advantage of this strategic position, but we will need them to find, fix and f--- the jihadists.
 
There's no evidence whatsoever that this was a deliberate attack, on the contrary, all evidence shows the Israelis thought it was an Egyptian war ship.

a U.S. Navy EC-121, had collected voice conversations between two Israeli helicopter pilots and the control tower at Hazor Airfield following the attack on the Liberty. (you can find it here and here).
They were talking about an Egyption supply ship. They were also told to ask the first one they pick up what his nationality is. If the rescued person talks arabic they had to fly him to Al Arish, if he talks English they had to go to Lod. After they told the control tower that they saw an American flag they had to double check it.
 
VDKMS said:
There's no evidence whatsoever that this was a deliberate attack, on the contrary, all evidence shows the Israelis thought it was an Egyptian war ship.

a U.S. Navy EC-121, had collected voice conversations between two Israeli helicopter pilots and the control tower at Hazor Airfield following the attack on the Liberty. (you can find it here and here).
They were talking about an Egyption supply ship. They were also told to ask the first one they pick up what his nationality is. If the rescued person talks arabic they had to fly him to Al Arish, if he talks English they had to go to Lod. After they told the control tower that they saw an American flag they had to double check it.
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USS Liberty 455 ft in length, 10K tons
El Qaiser 275FT in Length 2750 tons.

So the Israeli excuse is that they confused the Liberty with a ship half as small and 1/5 the displacement? How about the fact that Liberty waterline profile looks absolutely nothing like EL QAISER? Supply ships don't have huge Radar Antenna protruding out amidship. Or the fact the pilots claimed neither to see the big "5" written in English (not Arabic) nor the United States Flag flying from its mast. For the sake of argument, you might expect that the Israels being dimwitted enough to make all these mistakes simultaneously but it doesn't explain the torpedo-boat attack that came 25 minutes later. They were in visual range making a torpedo run and still couldn't properly identify the target?

I don't believe in coincidences and if Israelis were that incompetent then its really a mystery why they have lasted this long.
 
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