Thoughts on the Russo-Ukranian War?

I3BrigPvSk said:
The US congress is blocking the American aid package to Ukraine. Will the Europeans step up if the Americans step down?
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I don't believe the answer to this is in the constant flow of weapons to Ukraine as that will always be at the whim of politicians, I believe the solution is for western arms companies to set up shop in Ukraine and supply directly to them.

Politicians simply cannot be trusted and can not be left in control of this process or Ukraine is done for.
 
If Putin does manage to invade Ukraine, do you honestly think he will stop? Where next a NATO country. and WW3 Putin is a dangerous bugger, he has got to be stopped
 
BritinBritain said:
If Putin does manage to invade Ukraine, do you honestly think he will stop? Where next a NATO country. and WW3 Putin is a dangerous bugger, he has got to be stopped
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Moldova and then he is done.
I suspect he had grander plans but even he must realise that his military has had its arse kicked in Ukraine by what amounts to less than 10% of the west defence budgets, he will just go back to destabilising the west subversively.

The greater threat militarily remains China in my opinion.
 
If the West want Ukraine to win they need to get the tools for it. The West has been too slow with providing the tools. The republicans in the US congress wants to get the funding for better control over their southern border. They will probably get it and Ukraine will get the support. Hungary does something similar to block the EU support. Orban wants something in return to lift his veto, probably the EU funding which has been blocked by other EU countries
 
Didn't the same sort of thing happen at the UN allowing the UN to send troops to Korea during that conflict?
Basically, the Russians boycotted the UN, so they voted to send troops and the Russians weren't there to VETO it.

www.asiaone.com

EU grants Ukraine membership talks in midst of war, bypassing Hungarian objections

BRUSSELS — European Union (EU) leaders made a historic decision on Thursday (Dec 14) to open membership talks with Ukraine, bypassing objections from Hungary to give Kyiv a major political boost as its war against Russia's invasion grinds on. Although membership would likely be many years away...
www.asiaone.com www.asiaone.com
 
I don't mind to have Ukraine in NATO, but I have second thoughts about having them in the EU. All the weapons in Ukraine will begin to move after the war. We have enough of firearms from the wars in the Balkans floating around, I imagine it will be way worse after the war in Ukraine
 
MontyB said:
Didn't the same sort of thing happen at the UN allowing the UN to send troops to Korea during that conflict?
Basically, the Russians boycotted the UN, so they voted to send troops and the Russians weren't there to VETO it.

www.asiaone.com

EU grants Ukraine membership talks in midst of war, bypassing Hungarian objections

BRUSSELS — European Union (EU) leaders made a historic decision on Thursday (Dec 14) to open membership talks with Ukraine, bypassing objections from Hungary to give Kyiv a major political boost as its war against Russia's invasion grinds on. Although membership would likely be many years away...
www.asiaone.com www.asiaone.com
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yes
 
Ukrainian view on the war to date...
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The Ukrainians have humor. What is the best? Give them money or give them weapons/ammunition? I would prefer to give them the latter
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
The Ukrainians have humor. What is the best? Give them money or give them weapons/ammunition? I would prefer to give them the latter
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I am the other way on this, they will continually need weapons and equipment and that will always be at the whim of politicians who can't be trusted.

If western defence companies were given licence and funding to construct plants and manufacture weapons and ammunition in Ukraine then the reliance on political nonsense is reduced considerably, this would also allow the west to focus on rearming itself.
 
The EU/NATO members supplying Ukrainian have their own stockpiles of munitions under strain so the long term supply to Ukraine is unlikely to continue !

As for money, as much as I sympathise with the situation in Ukraine, but when our (UK) public finances are under extreme pressure with massive cuts to public services, we don’t have a lot of spare cash !
 
My perception about money or tools, if I can use that term is; It is better to provide them with the tools even if the stockpiles begins to shrink because Ukraine is pretty corrupt and providing them with money can be counterproductive if the money ends up somewhere else.
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
My perception about money or tools, if I can use that term is; It is better to provide them with the tools even if the stockpiles begins to shrink because Ukraine is pretty corrupt and providing them with money can be counterproductive if the money ends up somewhere else.
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I agree entirely !

However, I don’t see allies still providing munitions beyond the summer of 2025 ! We can probably still provide vehicles and training etc.
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
My perception about money or tools, if I can use that term is; It is better to provide them with the tools even if the stockpiles begins to shrink because Ukraine is pretty corrupt and providing them with money can be counterproductive if the money ends up somewhere else.
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I am not suggesting we send Ukraine container loads of cash; I am suggesting that western arms and ammunition manufacturers set up shop in Ukraine and produce weapons and ammunition for them.
This should reduce the amount of money the west provides and take the stress off our own armament industries to allow for western military reconstruction, it should also take the political inference out of the weapons supply process.
 
It might be better to have those shops in Poland for their own safety when the Russians will think twice before attacking them there.

I must admit I was wrong about something. I thought the Russians couldn't take these amount of casualties, but they can. The US or any other country in the West would never accept these casualties.

I argued for providing Ukraine with more advanced drones and more artillery. I still think that would help Ukraine more than tanks, IFVs, APCs, and F-16. Drones are cheaper than F-16 and if one get shot down, the pilot is safe and can fly again and again.
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
It might be better to have those shops in Poland for their own safety when the Russians will think twice before attacking them there.

I must admit I was wrong about something. I thought the Russians couldn't take these amount of casualties, but they can. The US or any other country in the West would never accept these casualties.

I argued for providing Ukraine with more advanced drones and more artillery. I still think that would help Ukraine more than tanks, IFVs, APCs, and F-16. Drones are cheaper than F-16 and if one get shot down, the pilot is safe and can fly again and again.
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I am not sure they can and remain effective, sure they are still advancing at a glacial pace but the cost is in manpower and material is increasing on top of this what "elite" forces they have left are still dying for a few metres and they are not being replaced with the same quality.
So yeah they can still put numbers in uniforms and sit them in a trench but their effectiveness is diminishing by the day.

Let's assume Ukraine stays in this at the same intensity for another 12 months Russian casualties will be in the vicinity of 750k dead add to that the wounded and mentally screwed up and Russia will be in trouble as long as Ukraine can minimise its losses.
 
MontyB said:
I am not sure they can and remain effective, sure they are still advancing at a glacial pace but the cost is in manpower and material is increasing on top of this what "elite" forces they have left are still dying for a few metres and they are not being replaced with the same quality.
So yeah they can still put numbers in uniforms and sit them in a trench but their effectiveness is diminishing by the day.

Let's assume Ukraine stays in this at the same intensity for another 12 months Russian casualties will be in the vicinity of 750k dead add to that the wounded and mentally screwed up and Russia will be in trouble as long as Ukraine can minimise its losses.
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We haven't seen the end of it yet. But most countries cannot take this amount of losses without any reaction, nonetheless, the Russians seem to take it, but for how long before we see a violent reaction.
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
We haven't seen the end of it yet. But most countries cannot take this amount of losses without any reaction, nonetheless, the Russians seem to take it, but for how long before we see a violent reaction.
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I’m sure the Russian state controlled media do a good job of making everything sound positive !
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
We haven't seen the end of it yet. But most countries cannot take this amount of losses without any reaction, nonetheless, the Russians seem to take it, but for how long before we see a violent reaction.
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To be honest I don't think at this stage the number of dead matters as much as the number of maimed as these will need treatment and support for the next 30-50 years and that will tax the Russian economy especially since many of them will never be contributing members of that economy.

If there is (as reported) 350k dead then the rule of thumb there has to be about 1 million wounded, this will be a huge drain on the economy.
 
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