MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Ukraine has the thermobaric RGT-27S2 grenade which they have used to finish off armoured vehicles.
Thoughts on the Russo-Ukranian War?
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
The Ukrainians can deploy their vicious tractor force with the mission to capture some of the Russian TOS1 vehicles.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Not sure Russia has many TOS1's left, their armoured forces look to be in as bad a shape as their paratroopers.
I also think Ukrainian tractors are tied up as it is mine harvesting season...
Attachments
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
The Russian VDV has been almost wiped out. Their marines are in a better shape, but their main method of transportation isn't in a good shape
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
The landing at Kozachi Laheri is interesting but I am not sure how they can build on it without air support or at least the capacity to suppress Russian air defences in the area but it is the closest point to Crimea that they have.
The British seem to think that 50% of the VDV they started the war with have been killed or wounded, it will be interesting to see how accurate that is.
The British were extrapolating the figures from Teplinsky, thus ..
Extrapolating and accurate are two different things .
And, not that I am surprised, 80 years after WW2 ,Newsweek is still talking about elite paratroopers .
There are no proofs that these paratroopers are elite soldiers,and also no proofs that they are paratroopers
aratroopers are soldiers who jump from aircraft .I like to see the proofs that the 30000 ''paratroopers '' who were committed in Ukraine,have jumped from aircraft and how many times .
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
I don't think the 50% of the VDV are KIA, WIA, and/or MIA, maybe 20-30% is more accurate. They replaced the Wagner group around Bakhmut, but the Russians withdraw them from that sector. Most likely to keep the remaining VDVs as a tactical reserve. They are supposed to be the best trained Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine. But trying to deploy VDV with a combat jump from IL-76s is foolish
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
All the ones that took part in the Hostomel landings were delivered by helicopter although wasnt there a couple of reports if IL-76 shot down in the first few hours of the invasion?
I did not hear what they were transporting but the reports seemed sketchy.
Reports: “Two Russian Il-76s Shot Down” in Ukraine, Combat Erupts in Kyiv
Reports Suggest Heavy Resistance to Russian Entry into Ukrainian Capital. As the sun rises on day three of the Ukrainian war with Russia, reports have
theaviationist.com
Two Russian Il-76 transport planes shot down over Kyiv – reports - AeroTime
Two Ilyushin Il-76 transport aircraft belonging to Russian military were shot down by Ukrainian forces south of Kyiv, reports confirm. The Ukrainian military announced that it shot down two heavy transporters with airborne troops on February 26, 2022. However, the claims were difficult to verify...
www.aerotime.aero
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
Yes, and we don't really know much about it. But the Russian VDV followed a routine during exercises. First they dropped the recon battalion, than the vehicles, and last the main airborne force. Did the two IL76s contained paratroopers or something else? Hard to know, but I haven't seen a lot of Russian airborne forces so they most likely suffered heavy casualties in the beginning of the war. One indicator if the Russian forces are airborne or not is to see if they are using BMD IFV vehicles instead of BMP vehicles. The difference between them is; the BMD is smaller and have five road wheels instead of six. The BMD is designed to be deployed by parachute. The VDV tried to drop the BMD with the paratroopers inside, it didn't end well.All the ones that took part in the Hostomel landings were delivered by helicopter although wasnt there a couple of reports if IL-76 shot down in the first few hours of the invasion?
I did not hear what they were transporting but the reports seemed sketchy.
Reports: “Two Russian Il-76s Shot Down” in Ukraine, Combat Erupts in Kyiv
Reports Suggest Heavy Resistance to Russian Entry into Ukrainian Capital. As the sun rises on day three of the Ukrainian war with Russia, reports have
Two Russian Il-76 transport planes shot down over Kyiv – reports - AeroTime
Two Ilyushin Il-76 transport aircraft belonging to Russian military were shot down by Ukrainian forces south of Kyiv, reports confirm. The Ukrainian military announced that it shot down two heavy transporters with airborne troops on February 26, 2022. However, the claims were difficult to verify...
The Russian VDV is a separate branch of the Russian military and they aren't usually wearing the regular army uniform. They are considered to be an elite fighting force.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I really don't know, Zaluzhniy reported that one was shot down near Vasylkiv, a city roughly 25 miles south of Kyiv, and the other near Bila Tserkva, which is also roughly 50 miles south of Kyiv killing around 250 paratroopers total.
The second aircraft was reported on Zaluzhny's Facebook page as:
Times of Israel has a brief mention:
Ukraine says it repulses major attack on Kyiv base, downs 2 Russian transport planes
Heavy fighting reported in capital's Shuliavka neighborhood, hours after Zelensky warns Russians planning to storm city overnight; Russians not releasing casualty figures
www.timesofisrael.com
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
Most countries with large airborne forces have stopped with these massive airdrops. Helicopters are much better to use for deployment of forces in the rear to interrupt the enemy's ability to move reinforcements and supplies. To deploy light infantry forces by parachute is dangerous when the airborne force is very exposed. The airborne force cannot land in a forest or urban area, instead it requires to land in an open area. They can also be spread out over a huge area , which can cause confusion, but it tends to be ineffective.
The Ukrainians are using their airborne units as infantry. The airborne units in other countries are usually better trained than regular infantry units and the Russian and the Ukrainians airborne units are the same
The Ukrainians are using their airborne units as infantry. The airborne units in other countries are usually better trained than regular infantry units and the Russian and the Ukrainians airborne units are the same
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
My impression is that these aircraft were not going to air drop the paratroopers but rather they were planning to land so either they thought that airfield was already in their hands or they were going to land and storm it (kind of an Entebbe scenario).
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
The first option makes sense. The Russian tried to capture the airfield with air assault units or did they try to capture it before the arrival of the air assault units with dropping airborne units first? What I don't know is what happened first, the air assault or the downing of the two IL-76s. Anyway, the Russian communications haven't been what we can expect from a modern military force so it is possible the communications failed and the airborne force in the IL76s didn't know the air assault on the airfield had failed. A combination of a failure of the command structure and a failure of the Russian communications.
The second option is an ambitious one, and it had most likely failed when IL-76s are big juicy targets for the Ukrainians
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
True but I don't think the Russians were expecting a fight of any significance, if they did then whoever thought this was the way to win a war and planned this should be arrested, no wait I am pro-Ukrainian they should be promoted and given more responsibility.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
I like that. The Ukrainians could decorate the Russian commanders with the Ukrainian military medals for their contribution to the Ukrainian victory.
I think the Ukrainians will launch an offensive from Kherson pretty soon, even if it is not recommended to launch an offensive across a river
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I can't see them being able to support an offensive across the Dnieper with heavy armour but I believe if they could it would be the right option to cut the E-58/M-14 highway.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
I am thinking like this. The Ukrainians were able to recapture their territory around Kherson and Kharkiv when they were able to destroy the Russian supply lines and making unsustainable for the Russians to keep the areas. They can do something similar again if they can ruin the Russian logistics and the counter offensive has been slow, but there is no rush, better to be slow and effective than running into things and fail.
Why are you, a citizen of NZL ,pro-Ukrainian and can you not be neutral,as most people on earth ?
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Because I was born in NZ that should be self explanatory, in this war I am pro-Ukrainian because Ukraine was invaded for no valid reason, as context I was pro-US invading Afghanistan because they were hiding Al Qaeda, anti-US invading Iraq because that was clearly bulls**t reasoning and pro-US/UN tossing Iraq out of Kuwait and would support sending western troops (including NZ) to support Ukraine given that idiots in Russia keep threatening the west (Hey if Russia wants to go to London then we may as well get involved now).
I am someone who supports what he believes is right and opposes what he believes wrong, it is why I am more positive about Chamberlain than most. He did everything he could to avoid war which is what I expect my politicians to do but he drew a line regarding Poland and when it was crossed he declared war which is what I expect leaders to do.
Listening to Putin, Lavrov and co saying we want an end to this war is largely sickening because they could end it tomorrow just by getting out of Ukraine, what they are really saying is "we have stolen enough land for now so let's stop so we can rest up for the next go".
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This is not convin
1 What are valid reasons for the invasion of a country ? US said that it had valid reasons for invading Afghanistan and Iraq and Russia said that it had valid reasons for invading Ukraine,Turkey (NATO member ) had also valid reasons for invading Cyprus, Syria and Iraq, Israel for invading Egypt,etc... There is no such thing as a valid reason for an invasion of an other country .Everyone has an other opinion about a valid reason .
2 The invasion of Ukraine ( not a NATO member ) is no threat for the West
3 The invasion of Afghanistan was a mistake
as there was no need to invade Afghanistan to kill Bin Laden
as the aim of the invasion of Afghanistan was not the elimination of Bin Laden
as the Russian example had taught that it was impossible to eliminate AQ in Afghanistan
4 You are wrong about Chamberlain : he did not care about Poland, after all the elimination of Poland as an independent state was no threat for Britain and Poles could not vote for or against him , but he was forced to declare war on Germany ,because of the dominating wokeness in Britain,that had its origin in Passendale and the blah blah from W.Wilson who lied that WWI was a war to make the world safe for democracy and because of the strong hostility in Britain to Germany and especially to Hitler : Germany and Hitler had succeeded to make another viable society and to ''prove '' that liberal democracy had failed .
5 About the US invasion of Iraq : US had a valid reason : 9/11 was an attack on the US by Muslim Arabs and the American opinion expected that Bush would do something and kill thousands of Muslims ,otherwise Bush would not be reelected .As Bush could not give the real reason for his invasion, he had to invent another one,what he did .
cing .
1 What are valid reasons for the invasion of a country ? US said that it had valid reasons for invading Afghanistan and Iraq and Russia said that it had valid reasons for invading Ukraine,Turkey (NATO member ) had also valid reasons for invading Cyprus, Syria and Iraq, Israel for invading Egypt,etc... There is no such thing as a valid reason for an invasion of an other country .Everyone has an other opinion about a valid reason .
2 The invasion of Ukraine ( not a NATO member ) is no threat for the West
3 The invasion of Afghanistan was a mistake
as there was no need to invade Afghanistan to kill Bin Laden
as the aim of the invasion of Afghanistan was not the elimination of Bin Laden
as the Russian example had taught that it was impossible to eliminate AQ in Afghanistan
4 You are wrong about Chamberlain : he did not care about Poland, after all the elimination of Poland as an independent state was no threat for Britain and Poles could not vote for or against him , but he was forced to declare war on Germany ,because of the dominating wokeness in Britain,that had its origin in Passendale and the blah blah from W.Wilson who lied that WWI was a war to make the world safe for democracy and because of the strong hostility in Britain to Germany and especially to Hitler : Germany and Hitler had succeeded to make another viable society and to ''prove '' that liberal democracy had failed .
5 About the US invasion of Iraq : US had a valid reason : 9/11 was an attack on the US by Muslim Arabs and the American opinion expected that Bush would do something and kill thousands of Muslims ,otherwise Bush would not be reelected .As Bush could not give the real reason for his invasion, he had to invent another one,what he did .