I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
Oh, the life had been so much easier if the Limeys spoke English.
Thoughts on the Russo-Ukranian War?
Oh, the life had been so much easier if the Limeys spoke English.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
It doesn't work like that. The Ukrainians getting training in the UK or elsewhere are the Ukrainian COs and NCOs who speak English, they will later train Ukrainian soldiers. Ukrainian gunners have a minor problem to learn how to use Western artillery systems. UKrainian soldiers didn''t have any problems to learn how to use anti-tank weapons provided by the West.
Have you ever been in the military and being taught how to use new equipment? Modern weapons are much easier to use than older. Especially in the artillery, in the 70s and the 80s, they were forced to make all calculation by hand. They don't need to do that anymore, even if they must know how to do it if the computer stops working.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Ukrainian troops seem to see some value in learning English.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...nglish-ukraine-soldiers-take-language-lessons
The Ukrainians trained in the UK ( 6000 ) are civilians who get a basic training, not COs and NCOs .
And I doubt that many Ukrainian NCOs speak English,as English is a foreign, alien language for the Ukrainians : where would these NCOs have been taught English ? And to be taught Engglish does not mean that one can speak and understand English .
It takes a lot of time ( not weeks, but months ) to train a tank crew : no one will give a tank that costs millions of USD to an inexperienced crew .
And to use a computer implies that one can use a computer : where and when would Ukrainian soldiers have been taught to use a computer and when would they have used a computer ?To use a computer implies that one possess a computer and the possession of a computer implies that one is rich enough to buy a computer and that electricity is available .
I like also to see the proofs that the Ukrainians had no problems to learn how to use Western anti-tank weapons .
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
6000 of all Ukrainian soldiers. Ukraine has mobilized all able bodied men. The computers are in the artillery systems., how do you think the HIMARS work? Even if you have never used a weapon and being taught to use any new weapons others don't have any issues to learn to use new things. A crew of tankers can be taught to use other tanks, IFVs. The Ukrainians got new APCs without any issues to drive them and use the weapons on them. It is not difficult to teach somebody to use an anti-tank weapon. Have you fired any AT weapons?
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Has he fired any weapons?
I saw footage of a Ukrainian firing a Karl Gustav at 45 degrees into the air, I wonder what he was hoping to hit.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
You mean like wot I does?
I went up the apples, put on me whistle, hugged the saucepan lids an the trouble, went down the frog to the rub a dub dub, the gezzer behind the ramp was a bubble, his barnet was like newgates knocker, I reckon he had a bull and cow with his trouble, his chevvy chase was as black as his barnet
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
Was he trying to hit a helicopter?
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
You mean like wot I does?
I went up the apples, put on me whistle, hugged the saucepan lids an the trouble, went down the frog to the rub a dub dub, the gezzer behind the ramp was a bubble, his barnet was like newgates knocker, I reckon he had a bull and cow with his trouble, his chevvy chase was as black as his barnet
If you say so...
''All able bodied men '' This is a big exaggeration :at the end of September 750000 men were mobilized (which is not the same as sent to the front ) .Source : Kievindependent .
You said that those trained in Britain were NCOs, the truth is that this is not so :they are recruits who receive a basic training and the use of ATW is not a part of basic training .To give recruits ATW and to send them to the front is a wast of training, of human material and of weapons .And this is not including the big shortcomings of the Javelins .
That a crew of tanks can be taught more easily to use other tanks is true, but you have first to have an experienced crew of tanks .How many experienced tank crews did Ukraine have before 24 February ?
And what about the maintenance crews ? The maintenance /reparations of a Western tanks is not the same as that of the Russian tanks Ukraine was /is still using : it is terra incognita .
And given the minor importance of the tanks and the fact that most tank losses were non combat losses, is it not better to give the production of simple,cheap ,personal weapons more importance than sophisticated 2022 weapons of which one can doubt the benefit and even utility in a pre 2022 ,post WW2 war between 2 armies who are miles away from what the Pentagon is preparing for the future .
The big ,very big shortcoming of the Western military,industrial and political leaders is to still be convinced that quality is defeating quantity ,although the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam have proved that it is not so .
And the Ukrainian war is going in the same direction .
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BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
If you say so...
I went up the apples, put on me whistle, hugged the saucepan lids an the trouble, went down the frog to the rub a dub dub, the gezzer behind the ramp was a bubble, his barnet was like newgates knocker, I reckon he had a bull and cow with his trouble, his chevvy chase was as black as his barnet
Translation=-
I went up the stairs and put on my suit, hugged the kids and the wife, went down the road to the pub, the man behind the bar was a Greek, his hair was black as was his face (black and blue) , he had a row with his wife
If Australians don't want you to understand what they're talking about, it's easy for them to have a conversation...I went up the apples, put on me whistle, hugged the saucepan lids an the trouble, went down the frog to the rub a dub dub, the gezzer behind the ramp was a bubble, his barnet was like newgates knocker, I reckon he had a bull and cow with his trouble, his chevvy chase was as black as his barnet
Translation=-
I went up the stairs and put on my suit, hugged the kids and the wife, went down the road to the pub, the man behind the bar was a Greek, his hair was black as was his face (black and blue) , he had a row with his wife
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Australia has its own version of cockney, it took a while figure out some of it.
New Zealand has a largely failing education system and has fallen back on something like a lazy "pigeon" English.
For example we strip most of a sentence and replace it with "a", as such at the supermarket you will often hear people looking to buy "a milk and a chips" instead of a carton/bottle of milk and a packet of chips.
The variations on this would be that if you want more than one unit you add "s" so more than on bottle of milk would be "a milks".
To those of us that remember when we had a functioning education system and speak English (as best we can)it is rather cringeworthy.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
But think if you can. Ukraine has conscription since 2014 and do you for real think they have COs and NCO for their entire military. A lot of them are conscripts. To be taught how to use AT weapons is in the basic training. We were using live hand grenades the first week and fired the Carl Gustav after two weeks.
So the UKrainians have no issues to man the Russian/Soviet made vehicles, but a huge problem to man the vehicles they get from the West
Have you been in the military?
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
Aussies sound like they are singing when they often end their sentences with a high pitch. Some South Africans can sound like Aussies when they make the sound I interpret as a language.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
I've been wondering that.
Seems a bit excessive, especially when they cost (in the 1970's) £2000 per round. I'd rather throw rocks at it. I wonder what our Belgium friend would make of it ad give us his expert comment
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BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
I was playing snooker with an Aussie at their unit in Butterworth Malaya, I got him snookered good and proper, he said ''Ya black bastard''
I still chuckle about that now.
That YOU were trained to use live hand grenades during the first week, does not prove that the Ukrainians were trained to use live hand grenades .
If my memory is not wrong, you are not an Ukrainian .
Sweden is not Ukraine .
That Ukraine has conscription since 2014 is something meaningless : how many Ukrainians were conscripted between 2014 and 2021 ?
And it takes more than 7 years to have the needed NCOs and COs for a mobilised army .
Ukraine had to start from zero in 2014 .
Western vehicles are suitable for Western soldiers,it is questionable that they can be used without problems by non western soldiers,as western vehicles,tanks and other weapons are made for western soldiers and as western armies are a reflection of western societies which are totally different from other societies .
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
All military are pretty much trained after the same MO if you are in the infantry, artillery, armor etc. The differences are the command structure, the doctrine, and how long the military service is.
Do you even have a driver's license? Do you know anything about the transmission in the BMPs? The UKrainians are moving around in the HIMARS, the Australian APC, M-113, the German self propelled howitzers, the Gepard.
Even if you have a problem to learn things doesn't mean others have learning difficulties
Have you been in the in the military?
20 Himars have been given to Ukraine ,their efficiency is unproved .How many Ukrainians rte moving with these 20 Himars ?
You can't say that the Ukrainians are moving around in the HIMARS ?
And, how long took it to train the few hundreds Ukrainians to use Himars ?Ukrainians use the continental Napoleontic metric system , while Himars are American weapons and in the US one uses the Imperial system .
Ukraine is the most poor country of Europe with a very low education level, thus to say that Ukrainians could handle sophisticated US weapons is very questionable .
When the Taliban fought against the Soviets,did they use sophisticated US weapons ?
The same for the FSA and its ISIS allies .
Ukrainians are not Americans ,most do not speak or understand English ( Ukraine is number 29 of 33 of European countries concerning knowledge of English ) and the US military do not speak or understand Ukrainian .