The rising of an Empire and the future invasion of Europe!

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Gladius:

(1) You argued that industry is unimportant: "I've mentioned this before, they do not have to have the industrial capacity they can simply buy the weapons. Saddam Hussien had the 4th largest army at one point, and they didn't manifacture any of thier stuff. So they don't need and industrial base, in fact having no large sophisticated industrial base will make them less vunerable to EMP."

(2) EMP is unimportant or neutralized owing to the information I already quoted: An EMP will only hurt the civilian sector and not the military's capacity to wage war. We are talking about an invasion and not a rush on the stock markets. Again, an EMP attack will unleash a WMD reprisal on all staging areas and on the Islamic world. You are confusing your own argument, AGAIN.

(3) You disregard the US presence in the Middle East: For you, this fact is "rubbish"...sort of like the idea that the US, according to your model, has to lose the war against terror before the Islamic world can attack Europe. What about Israel? Do they just die as well? You seem too blind to understand that the world requires immense changes prior to witnessing your bizarre theories.

Conclusions: (What are you?)

It is clear that you WANT your theory to become true. For you, it is not even a theory. It is a law written in stone. This tells us a lot about you and the way you view the world. Your writing displays several aspects of your nature or what you are:

(1) Antisemitic: you long for the extinction of Israel.

(2) Traitorous: your model hopes for the defeat of the United States.

(3) Stubborn: you make no effort at adapting your argument in the face of contradictions.

I am off. You have my pity. I genuinely feel sorry for you. An argument is not won because a person just continues to babble on incessantly or uses derogatory language. There is only one way to test your theory, anyway. We will have to wait 20 years.
 
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Nikita Kruschev once said that the Hammer and Sickle would one day fly over American soil and that not a shot would have been fired. History has proven him wrong but I think what he had in mind is the more likely method by which Europe will succumb to the Muslim world.
 
I think this thread has run it's course for now.
Locked.

PM me if you have any very good reasons to why we should unlock it.
 
The thread has been reopened for 2 days now.

Stay away from personal attacks/insults, or face the consequences.

Thanks.
 
Ollie Garchy said:
Gladius:

(1) You argued that industry is unimportant: "I've mentioned this before, they do not have to have the industrial capacity they can simply buy the weapons. Saddam Hussien had the 4th largest army at one point, and they didn't manifacture any of thier stuff. So they don't need and industrial base, in fact having no large sophisticated industrial base will make them less vunerable to EMP."
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You yourserlf have provided the eveidence against what you are saying here.

(2) EMP is unimportant or neutralized owing to the information I already quoted: An EMP will only hurt the civilian sector and not the military's capacity to wage war. We are talking about an invasion and not a rush on the stock markets. Again, an EMP attack will unleash a WMD reprisal on all staging areas and on the Islamic world. You are confusing your own argument, AGAIN.
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If the civilian sector is down who is going to provide ammo and fuel?

And like I said WMD reprisal are going to be met with WMD reprisal and mostly civilians will be casualties, why would the West do this when there is a chance they can win without doing this.

But I'll just go with facts.

Even more regrettable was the fact that most major military hardware and systems, especially those not considered vital to the conduct of strategic nuclear war, were not hardened against EMP much at all. As a result, at the present time our national profile of vulnerability to EMP attack is highly uneven, with large parts of our military machine and virtually all of the equipment undergirding modern American civilization being utterly EMP vulnerable.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/congress/1997_h/has197010_1.htm

 I have always provided scientifically backed up facts for what I say, you havent.

(3) You disregard the US presence in the Middle East: For you, this fact is "rubbish"...sort of like the idea that the US, according to your model, has to lose the war against terror before the Islamic world can attack Europe. What about Israel? Do they just die as well? You seem too blind to understand that the world requires immense changes prior to witnessing your bizarre theories.
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I never said the US has to lose the war on terror, this is again more false conclusions on your part because you have no clear evidence.

What I said was the the war to convert the Middle East to democracy may fail, not that the war on terror would be lost,---big difference. So stop making up false statements and conclusions, and stick with facts.

As for the immense change, the Muslim world of over 1.5 billion people will form into one empire, led by a single ruler. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.



Conclusions: (What are you?)

It is clear that you WANT your theory to become true. For you, it is not even a theory. It is a law written in stone. This tells us a lot about you and the way you view the world. Your writing displays several aspects of your nature or what you are:
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I don't want this theory to come true, this coming true is not up to me. I am simply NOT the type of person who pretends to ignore something they don't like and hope it goes away. I see the proof and evidence, and call it like it is.

You shouldn't judge and make lies about people based on solely what you think, without first finding the facts of what they believe. Doesn't this show a narrow minded perspective? You should first find out what they believe before making an assesment.

This is clear proof why you don't understand what is going on. Especially the part about Muslim beliefs.

(1) Antisemitic: you long for the extinction of Israel.
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Another lie and false accusation.

I never haved longed for Israels exticntion. I have defended Israel countless times on this board, as some here can testify.

If you had read the thread. I believe I outlined that some parts of Israel will be overrun, but some parts would be surrounded and encircled, which shall remaind that way till the end of the war, to which they can be rescued. This is due to the Muslims following their own prophecies, in which they will want to save the Jews for the last battle.

So your accusation is completely false.

If you have no more facts, simply bow out of the arguement, don't provide lies in their place.

(2) Traitorous: your model hopes for the defeat of the United States.
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More lies. More false accusations.

This is a really strong accusation. You must be getting real desperate to give level such strong accusations against me. This couldn't be more further form the truth.

When did I say the US would be defeated? Never.

When did I say the Islamic Empire will win the war? Never.

I never said the Islamic empire will win the war, I simply said they will invade.

The Islamic Empire will invade Europe, and make significant progress early in the war, becuase of factors such as numerical superiority, in-country populous, and EMP. The West will face setback, millions of westerners will die, but eventually the West will recover.

But this recovery will take time. In the meantime Europe will be fighting for their lives. The USA will bale Europe out once again as it did in WW2. But it will take at least a year or two before the US can assemble the forces to mount a full counter-offensive, to beat back and finally defeat the Muslim invaders.

After the war is won and Europe is devistated, the only remaining true world power will be the USA. So if the US is strong now, after this war it will be totaly supreme. And because socialism and left-wing thinking helped brought about the destruction of Europe it will be rejected. This will be a new golden age, that shall last for the next 500 to a thousand years. American civilization and influence will surpass even Rome. We will acheive global democracy, and there will be very few and at least no major wars during the majority of this time period.

So much for lies and false accusations againts me.

Again, if you want to argue make sure you have facts, not lies about people to make your point.


(3) Stubborn: you make no effort at adapting your argument in the face of contradictions.
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What you accuse me of, you are even more guilty yourself, since I see no facts to go with those accusations.

I am off. You have my pity. I genuinely feel sorry for you. An argument is not won because a person just continues to babble on incessantly or uses derogatory language. There is only one way to test your theory, anyway. We will have to wait 20 years.
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In 20 years, if what I say is true, then it is I who will feel sorry for you.
 
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gladius said:
This is laughable. 1 megaton or 1.4 megaton, whats the difference, its alot less than the 20 megatons you were saying. Its still proves the range of a one megatone warhead which will be somewhere close. ...Besides the nations top scientist said one megaton, not me. One megaton will do significant damage.
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Correct, 1.4 megaton strikes 1500km....not the entire US. That is were my 20 megaton argument comes in.
 
WNxRogue said:
Correct, 1.4 megaton strikes 1500km....not the entire US. That is were my 20 megaton argument comes in.
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For example, if a megaton class weapon were to be detonated 400 kilometers above Omaha, nearly the entire contiguous 48 States would be affected with potentially damaging EMP experience from Boston to Los Angeles, from Chicago to New Orleans.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/congress/1997_h/has197010_1.htm
 
Global democracy will never bring about world peace Gladius. You gotta eliminate greed, pride (Including patriotism), anger, sloth, gluttony, envy and vanity before u get world peace. And eliminating these things isn't likely.
 
Unfortunatly, you proof does not agree:

"During that brief return to atmospheric testing, Starfish Prime, a 1.4 megaton detonation conducted over Johnston Island at an altitude of about 400 kilometers, proved that these effects could have wide-ranging impact on systems. The effects of EMP from the Starfish event were observed in Hawaii, 1,300 kilometers east of the detonation. Street lights and fuses failed on Oahu and telephone service was disrupted on the Island of Kauai."
 
I think i heard about that test, nuclear rainbows or something. Didn't it disrupt communications over much of the pacific and everyone besides the military was WTF?
 
Yes. EMP also disrupts communication over a short period of time.

Ollie Garchy said:
That is your opinion. I stand by what I have written. Debate over.
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The debate pretty much ended for you when you stopped providing solid evidence and went with lies and false acusations.

jequirity said:
Global democracy will never bring about world peace Gladius. You gotta eliminate greed, pride (Including patriotism), anger, sloth, gluttony, envy and vanity before u get world peace. And eliminating these things isn't likely.
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If you want to do that then you might as well eliminate the whole human race because those things aren't likely.

As far as global democracy it will reduce wars very significantly. Since when was the last time in recent history that two democracies fought each other in an all out war?

It will be comparbable to Rome bringing about the Pax (Roman Peace), of 200 years of peace, safety, and tranquility within the borders of the empire which was basicly most of Europe, including a good portion of North Africa and Asia Minor, which prior to that saw only constant war.

But thats not even the topic here.

WNxRogue said:
Unfortunatly, you proof does not agree:

"During that brief return to atmospheric testing, Starfish Prime, a 1.4 megaton detonation conducted over Johnston Island at an altitude of about 400 kilometers, proved that these effects could have wide-ranging impact on systems. The effects of EMP from the Starfish event were observed in Hawaii, 1,300 kilometers east of the detonation. Street lights and fuses failed on Oahu and telephone service was disrupted on the Island of Kauai."
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Lol.

Lets go at this slowly.

The effects of Starfish Prime was felt 1,300 km east of the detonation point.

That is going only one way---east. What about west?

If it reaches 1,300 km east, then it also reaches 1,300 km west, as well as north and south.

Making the blast radius 2,600 km, not 1,300 as you are so confused by.

If detonated right in the middle 2,600 km will cover most if not a large portion of the US. As was stated in the previous evidence I showed.

The true blast radius of EMP is from horizon to horizon. They only recorded it up to Hawaii, because there was no other civilization close to the area after that to provide anymore data, the EMP could have and most likely went further.

Still, even if only the eastern portion of the USA was hit, NY, Boston, ect, the colateral damage would still be tremendous. Setting the nation back weeks if not months. So whether the whole nation is covered or only part of it, the consequences will be terrible.
 
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http://www.faithfreedom.org/

Bulldogg here with some reading material for those who would like to hear the low down from former followers of Islam. Kinda like hearing about Scientology from someone who has left and tells you all the dirty secrets from the inside. My missus is an Indonesian lawyer and she gets credit for finding the site.

Bon appetite.
:)
 
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The distance between San Francisco and New York is 4726km. So a nuke detonated in the center of the US will hit neither of these. It is phyically impossible to detonate a nuke to eliminate both major population centers, the west and east coasts.
 
Hey, y'all get them damn nuclear explosions away from my grandma's old farm. It might be away from your preferred "population centre's" but I got family there damnit!
 
A nuclear blast is like any other pulse of energy. There are concentric circles where the farther from center, the weaker the effects.( Look up Smith Chart.) It's almost impossible to destroy a country with one nuke, I don't care how many mT the yield.
 
We were not talking about direct nuke we were talking about EMP. ...at least that what I hope we were still talking about, unless he got the subject confused again, it seems like it in the wording.

WNxRogue said:
The distance between San Francisco and New York is 4726km. So a nuke detonated in the center of the US will hit neither of these. It is phyically impossible to detonate a nuke to eliminate both major population centers, the west and east coasts.
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You don't know that.

It is not impossible if both coast are within the horizon line of the blast. Only the curviture of the earth will stop the blast effects.

The true range of EMP is from horizon to horizon from the point elevation of the detonation. Not the range stated in the Starfish detonation, so it may well reach farther than that.

I think the Scientist who was speaking before congress knows more about this that you do, when he testified it can affect both coast.

I hate to say this, but the more you post the more it shows how much you don't know.


Anyways, so what, EMP will still cause considerable damage regardless if it hit all or one part of the country. You cannot argue that EMP will not do this. So who even cares about the range whether its 2,000 km or 5,00km, it will still do considerable damage that will set the country back weeks if not months. You are arguing a point that is moot.
 
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Good post, full of good important info.



This information is the crux of why the Mahdi prophecies are something that people need to be concerned about.

Most all Muslims are NOT terrorist, they will not take up arms againts the West. But a good portion are Fundamentalist. Or lean towards this.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]They do not take up arms againts us but they support and strongly symphatize with (wether secretly or not) those that do take up arms. There are even some fundamentalist who oppose the terrorist but they still subcribe to the main Fundamentalist goals.

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] How widespread is Islamic militancy? According to Tibi, a distinction must be made between “worldview fundamentalists,” who may embrace the hope for Islam’s future supremacy, while rejecting terror—and militant activists or terrorists. In Pakistan for example, Tibi estimates the number of fundamentalists at half the population, but the percentage of those ready to resort to violence is roughly 3-5 percent.[/FONT]
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The ultimate goal of the Fundametalist is Islamic world domination.
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] In his books and interviews, Tibi goes straight to the heart of the matter: “The goal of the Islamic fundamentalists is to abolish the Western, secular world order and replace it with a new Islamist divine order....The goal of the Islamists is a new imperial, absolutist Islamic world power.”

This is why the Mahdi prophecies are of utmost concern. This mentality is exactly the catalyst that will make todays Fundamentalist cross that line of not taking up arms against the West to actively waging war against us when the Mahdi appears. When he does appear they will take up arms to fullfill what they believe is their destiny.

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Yet, even if most of modernity is rejected as ungodly, an exception is made for technology and science, such as weapons technology. “Our goal is to learn how to handle modern weapons, how to produce and develop them further, so that we can conquer our enemies,”....

Right now they are splintered with no real central leadership. The coming of the Mahdi will change that and unite them all under one empire.


That's why people need to understand this. Because the Muslim you see at you work or school may more than likely not by any chance be a terrorist. But there is definately a good chance that he may hold Fundamentalist beliefs of Islam someday dominating or taking over the culture he lives in, and believe me he will do his part to make this happen, that if he believes himself to be a good Muslim.

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] A common theme for Islamists is their desire to close off their world from the Western world. This is behind the demand of Bin Laden and other prominent figures to exclude non-Muslims from the Muslim world. The same self-chosen ghettoization can be found among Islamists in the Muslim-European diaspora, a deeply disturbing trend, observes Tibi.

This is why Europe is in trouble. And this will definately come into play in the future.

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Under the cover of religious congregations, the Islamists are invisible to the outside world. In this way “active Islamists are abusing the right to asylum and religious freedom in Europe for their own interests. The logistical center of militant fundamentalists is not in the Middle East or Central Asia, but in Western Europe,” explains Tibi.

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tibi estimates the number of fundamentalists at roughly 100,000 in Germany alone, in a Muslim population of 3.5 million.

If you don't think the Mahdi prophecies will cause a great upheaval in the Muslim world which if fullfilled will more than likely cause a world war, well then guess again because it will. But right now the Fundamentalist are splintered, separated and disunited. The Mahdi is the only missing link to the unification of all fundamentalist factions and populations in the Islamic world therby giving them one unified goal and one unified purpose of trying to fullfill the Mulsim Fundamentalist vision of Islamic world domination.

http://www.worldpress.org/europe/0102dagens.htm



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Some additional interestion information of significance...


The Caliphate: One nation, under Allah, with 1.5 billion Muslims

By James Brandon

Hizb ut-Tahrir says that Muslims should abolish national boundaries within the Islamic world and return to a single Islamic state, known as "the Caliphate," that would stretch from Indonesia to Morocco and contain more than 1.5 billion people.


"The Caliphate is a rallying point between the radicals and the more moderate Islamists," says Stephen Ulph, a senior fellow at the Jamestown Foundation. "The idea of a government based on the Caliphate has a historical pedigree and Islamic legitimacy that Western systems of government by their very nature do not have."



Hizb ut-Tahrir promises that a revived Caliphate will end corruption and bring prosperity - though the group doesn't say how. It will let Muslims challenge, and ultimately conquer, the West, its followers say.

"The Muslim world has resources like oil but it lacks the leadership that will rule us by Islamic law and make this jihad that the whole world is afraid of," says Shakr, a Jordanian member of the group, who says the success of the Caliphate will also encourage more converts to Islam - eventually making the whole world Islamic.



"Islam obliges Muslims to possess power so that they can intimidate - I would not say terrorize - the enemies of Islam," says Abu Mohammed, a Hizb ut-Tahrir activist. "In the beginning, the Caliphate would strengthen itself internally and it wouldn't initiate jihad."

"But after that we would carry Islam as an intellectual call to all the world," says Abu Mohammed, a pseudonym. "And we will make people bordering the Caliphate believe in Islam. Or if they refuse then we'll ask them to be ruled by Islam."

And after that? Abu Mohammed pauses and fiddles with his Pepsi before replying.

"And if after all discussions and negotiations they still refuse, then the last resort will be a jihad to spread the spirit of Islam and the rule of Islam," he says, smiling. "This is done in the interests of all people to get them out of darkness and into light."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0510/p01s04-wome.html


If any of you don't think there is a belief amongst Muslims for an ultimate Islamic unification to rule the world, then guess again. Also read the last part of the article if you don't think the forming of a Caliphate will not mean a world war. The funny thing is they believe they are doing those that they will wage jihad on a favor.

As I had said before the forming of a Caliphate will have a snowball effect on the Muslim world. Any Muslim governments who oppose this will be victims of a coup, internal uprising, or civil war. This will continue until the empire is formed. The Mahdi will be the single person catalyst that will incite this. After which it is done then they will move on to the rest of the world. This is the reason I point out why the Mahdi prophecies are of significance to the future of the entire world.


[ note: I'm no longer going to debate the this issue, almost everything that has been brought up to refute this, has been answered several times over. Before trying to say why this won't work, read the thread, something similar to the statement you wish to put is probably in here and has been answered already.

I am here only to provide information on this from time to time to update this thread. ]
 
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