The Best assault rifle in the world.
I use the Austeyr, very similar to the Steyr AUG.
It's a heavy rifle, coming in at around 5kg fully loaded with the picatinny rail, sight, Night aiming device. All the weight is above your trigger hand. The working parts are exposed allowing dust, dirt, sand, and anything else to get in there and help create stoppages. Designed for fire out to 300m and is accurate out to that distance.
The magazines are plastic and bulky, slowing down reloading times as you fight to get it back into your pouch. The M4 magazines are a lot slimmer and with less hooks to get caught up on in your pouches. They break as well, sending 30 rounds all over the ground.
The front fore grip is a waste of time as your hand can't take most of the weight in that position, forcing your firing hand to stabilise the rifle and lowering accuracy.
The weapon has to be taken to the armourer if you want to switch it to left hand firing, which also has a drawback when you want to fire around a corner with your non master side, copping brass right in the eye.
The buttstock is a bastard to clean. With the trigger, pulling it back to the first spot with be single shot, fully back is auto, however at the same time it pulls back a thing at the front of the trigger guard so that can't be blocked. Trigger mechanism breaks quite alot. The trigger guard is big and bulky, designed to be used with snow gloves, not something you see a lot of in the aussie scrub.
It's a heavy rifle, coming in at around 5kg fully loaded with the picatinny rail, sight, Night aiming device. All the weight is above your trigger hand. The working parts are exposed allowing dust, dirt, sand, and anything else to get in there and help create stoppages. Designed for fire out to 300m and is accurate out to that distance.
The magazines are plastic and bulky, slowing down reloading times as you fight to get it back into your pouch. The M4 magazines are a lot slimmer and with less hooks to get caught up on in your pouches. They break as well, sending 30 rounds all over the ground.
The front fore grip is a waste of time as your hand can't take most of the weight in that position, forcing your firing hand to stabilise the rifle and lowering accuracy.
The weapon has to be taken to the armourer if you want to switch it to left hand firing, which also has a drawback when you want to fire around a corner with your non master side, copping brass right in the eye.
The buttstock is a bastard to clean. With the trigger, pulling it back to the first spot with be single shot, fully back is auto, however at the same time it pulls back a thing at the front of the trigger guard so that can't be blocked. Trigger mechanism breaks quite alot. The trigger guard is big and bulky, designed to be used with snow gloves, not something you see a lot of in the aussie scrub.
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Cdt Matteo
Active member
A good old Avtomat Kalashnikova 1947.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Bull Pup rifles
I really don't know why armies are going with the bull pup design rifle. The general opinion of those I have spoken to personally who use such designs (the blokes at the sharp end) are not in favour of the design, and are experiencing major reliability problems. What I don't like about the British SA80 (apart from its early teething problems) is that the rifle is not ambidextrous. With the older British L1A1 SLR and the US M16, the rifle can be fired left or right handed around cover. Trying using a SA80 left handed, the cocking handle will take your teeth out faster then a rampant dentist, and you'll get a hot case in the ear.
OK the bull pup is shorter and handier, that I agree with, but the balance is all out of kilter, and magazine changes would take longer. If I remember correctly the Aussies had a shorter version of the L1A1 which was never issued to the British. A question to those serving, what is your opinion of the bull pup design? I'd be very interested to know.
From what I hear, the SAS told the powers that be to stick the SA80 where the sun don't shine.
Personally, I'd go with the traditional design every time.
I really don't know why armies are going with the bull pup design rifle. The general opinion of those I have spoken to personally who use such designs (the blokes at the sharp end) are not in favour of the design, and are experiencing major reliability problems. What I don't like about the British SA80 (apart from its early teething problems) is that the rifle is not ambidextrous. With the older British L1A1 SLR and the US M16, the rifle can be fired left or right handed around cover. Trying using a SA80 left handed, the cocking handle will take your teeth out faster then a rampant dentist, and you'll get a hot case in the ear.
OK the bull pup is shorter and handier, that I agree with, but the balance is all out of kilter, and magazine changes would take longer. If I remember correctly the Aussies had a shorter version of the L1A1 which was never issued to the British. A question to those serving, what is your opinion of the bull pup design? I'd be very interested to know.
From what I hear, the SAS told the powers that be to stick the SA80 where the sun don't shine.
Personally, I'd go with the traditional design every time.
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A Can of Man
Je suis aware
I think Wallabies just explained the drawbacks of having a bullpup weapon in general. Probably a leading reason why many designers stick to the traditional AR layout.
I had a K2 and I liked it. I think I liked almost everything about it. AK style gas system, didn't jam once the whole time during my service (except in a special circumstance with the shell casing catch net which would get in the way of left handed shooters causing the casings to not eject fully... if no catch net was installed as it wouldn't in combat, this would never happen).
The iron sights let you shoot real accurate up to 250m.
It wasn't heavy and it was short enough for me to handle easily. The buttstock folded so I could have it strapped to my back and wouldn't get in the way so much when I was trying to get things off the truck or whatnot.
It was also very easy to open up and clean. Very easy. Easier than that of an AR-15.
If only it had a flat rail top to add some better sights it would be a truly exceptional weapon.
The only bad thing was the cocking handle dug into your back if you attempted to run with it tied to your back.
I had a K2 and I liked it. I think I liked almost everything about it. AK style gas system, didn't jam once the whole time during my service (except in a special circumstance with the shell casing catch net which would get in the way of left handed shooters causing the casings to not eject fully... if no catch net was installed as it wouldn't in combat, this would never happen).
The iron sights let you shoot real accurate up to 250m.
It wasn't heavy and it was short enough for me to handle easily. The buttstock folded so I could have it strapped to my back and wouldn't get in the way so much when I was trying to get things off the truck or whatnot.
It was also very easy to open up and clean. Very easy. Easier than that of an AR-15.
If only it had a flat rail top to add some better sights it would be a truly exceptional weapon.
The only bad thing was the cocking handle dug into your back if you attempted to run with it tied to your back.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
A family friend worked on the design of the SA80 at Enfield Lock. He became so frustrated with the rifle, he walked into his boss's office threw an SA80 on his desk and declared “This load of crap will never work.” His boss then stated that it was out of his hands, its now a political decision and that they have to make it work.
A British magazine called “Handgunner” disclosed the serious problems with the SA80 and was closed down for quite some time.
From what I hear the SA80 has never been bought by any other country.
A British magazine called “Handgunner” disclosed the serious problems with the SA80 and was closed down for quite some time.
From what I hear the SA80 has never been bought by any other country.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
From what I hear, it's a lousy weapon.
Perhaps tried too hard with concepts ahead of its time and that's not the sort of weapon you want to outfit your whole army with.
here's a photo of a Peruvian Army K-2
It's also used by Fiji, Lebanon and Nigeria.
Strange choice of buyers.
Perhaps tried too hard with concepts ahead of its time and that's not the sort of weapon you want to outfit your whole army with.
here's a photo of a Peruvian Army K-2
It's also used by Fiji, Lebanon and Nigeria.
Strange choice of buyers.
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did they sell those to that moron in Bosnia?
5.56X45mm
Milforum Mac Daddy
I don't remember if I've voiced my opinions on this on or not but here it goes.
I've spent a lot of time behind many different firearms. I've carried the AR-15 series in combat operations in Afghanistan and Stateside as a Police Patrol Carbine. (M16 is the US Military Designation. The Model number for the firearm is the AR-15)
In terms of ergonomics and layout, the AR-15 is king. The magazine release system is simple. You don't need to rock in the magazine like that of a M14, AK Series, FN FAL, and some other common rifles like the Heckler & Koch G36. You simply hit your magazine release button and either your magazine drops free or you can still rip it out. You can do so by simply moving your trigger finger from the trigger to the magazine release button. Insterting a new magazine is simple. Just insert the magazine into the magazine well and seat it forcefully into the rifle.
The bolt release is also within reach of the support hand. The charging handle can be used by either hand. The strong or the support hand. The safety/selector can be used by the strong side thumb. You can still keep the weapon shouldered and engage or disengage the safety without taking your hand off like the AK Series rifle.
The sights on the current issue rifle (A2 sights) are good. The rear sight can be adjusted for windage and elevation and the front sight can be adjusted for elevation. You have two peep sights. A large peep sight for anything under 200 yards and a small peep sight for anything further then 200 yards. With the current rifles (A4), you have A2 sights but can remove them for a M1913 Picatinny Rail to mount optics, folding rear BUIS (Bacl Up Iron Sights), night vision devices, etc...
The stock cannot be folded but that's not a major issue. Yes, a folding stock is easier for storage but not for fighting. Right now there are a number of different stocks out. Fixed A1 and A2 stocks, telescopic, etc...
Barrel length is in a different number patterns. 20 inch, 16 inch, 14.5 inch, 10 inch, etc...
Cleaning and stripping the rifle is easy. You can do all you need with a single round. The rifle strips into five major parts. Upper Receiver, Lower Receiver, Bolt Carrier, Bolt, Firing Pin. Cleaning isn't that hard and putting it togeher is very fast.
The rifle is light in weight and is accurate. It has overcome it's setrotypes and myths. When it was first issued it was a Cluster F##k but it overcame that within the first few years.
The AR-15 is the most univerisal rifle out on the field in my opinion. The rifle is chambered in a number of rounds. 5.56x45mm, 5.45x39mm, 7.62x39mm, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendal, and a larger number of civilian hunting calibers. The rifle can be built into just about anything you can think of. PDW, Carbine, Rifle, DM Rifle, Sniper Rifle, and the listr goes on. With it's rail system you can add just about any piece of equipment out there.
Just about every new service rifle out there either take many design ideas from the AR-15 or it's cousin the AR-18.
I've spent a lot of time behind many different firearms. I've carried the AR-15 series in combat operations in Afghanistan and Stateside as a Police Patrol Carbine. (M16 is the US Military Designation. The Model number for the firearm is the AR-15)
In terms of ergonomics and layout, the AR-15 is king. The magazine release system is simple. You don't need to rock in the magazine like that of a M14, AK Series, FN FAL, and some other common rifles like the Heckler & Koch G36. You simply hit your magazine release button and either your magazine drops free or you can still rip it out. You can do so by simply moving your trigger finger from the trigger to the magazine release button. Insterting a new magazine is simple. Just insert the magazine into the magazine well and seat it forcefully into the rifle.
The bolt release is also within reach of the support hand. The charging handle can be used by either hand. The strong or the support hand. The safety/selector can be used by the strong side thumb. You can still keep the weapon shouldered and engage or disengage the safety without taking your hand off like the AK Series rifle.
The sights on the current issue rifle (A2 sights) are good. The rear sight can be adjusted for windage and elevation and the front sight can be adjusted for elevation. You have two peep sights. A large peep sight for anything under 200 yards and a small peep sight for anything further then 200 yards. With the current rifles (A4), you have A2 sights but can remove them for a M1913 Picatinny Rail to mount optics, folding rear BUIS (Bacl Up Iron Sights), night vision devices, etc...
The stock cannot be folded but that's not a major issue. Yes, a folding stock is easier for storage but not for fighting. Right now there are a number of different stocks out. Fixed A1 and A2 stocks, telescopic, etc...
Barrel length is in a different number patterns. 20 inch, 16 inch, 14.5 inch, 10 inch, etc...
Cleaning and stripping the rifle is easy. You can do all you need with a single round. The rifle strips into five major parts. Upper Receiver, Lower Receiver, Bolt Carrier, Bolt, Firing Pin. Cleaning isn't that hard and putting it togeher is very fast.
The rifle is light in weight and is accurate. It has overcome it's setrotypes and myths. When it was first issued it was a Cluster F##k but it overcame that within the first few years.
The AR-15 is the most univerisal rifle out on the field in my opinion. The rifle is chambered in a number of rounds. 5.56x45mm, 5.45x39mm, 7.62x39mm, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendal, and a larger number of civilian hunting calibers. The rifle can be built into just about anything you can think of. PDW, Carbine, Rifle, DM Rifle, Sniper Rifle, and the listr goes on. With it's rail system you can add just about any piece of equipment out there.
Just about every new service rifle out there either take many design ideas from the AR-15 or it's cousin the AR-18.
Dos
Active member
i can't believe it
have any of you guys ever tried the AN-94? I think it's the best assault rifle today because of it's careful firing mechanism, which fires rounds with 2 bullets in succession which i find is useful for piercing armor. Sure it can be very expensive, hard to manufacture, and hard to keep control of when firing, but this is one of the only guns in the world that has the two-bullet auto firing mechanism.
have any of you guys ever tried the AN-94? I think it's the best assault rifle today because of it's careful firing mechanism, which fires rounds with 2 bullets in succession which i find is useful for piercing armor. Sure it can be very expensive, hard to manufacture, and hard to keep control of when firing, but this is one of the only guns in the world that has the two-bullet auto firing mechanism.
major liability
Active member
The G11 beats the AN-94 hands-down, it could put 3 rounds on target before the shooter feels any recoil. It's a damn shame HK didn't find any buyers, they had already solved the cook-off problem with caseless ammo. It would have been revolutionary.
LeEnfield
Active member
I think that all the posters about these rifles are influenced by the ones that use and know. Now I soldiered with the old .303 infield, great gun very accurate, but was bolt action and the magazine had just ten rounds. The FN SLR was just coming into service when left again quite a good rifle but one of the draw backs was it's lenght and if your weapons container hit the ground a bit hard you would wind up with a bent barrel, it would fire and with luck you would hit your NCO. SA80 now I have been invited back to my old regiment a few times and have been let lose with this weapon and I found it was very compact with a huge range the SUSAT on it was great. Okay it can only be fired from your right shoulder but there again most of the other weapons are the same even the old .303 could only be used from the right shoulder any one who was left handed just had to learn to use that way and they all did. The SA80 is a much better weapon for street fighting than the weapons that have the magazine in front of the trigger, as this set up you either lose the range by having a shorter barrel or you have the longer barrel and have a clumsy weapon. The SAS normally engage with people at a close range as this is why they go for a different type of weapon. Okay they snipers with them but so do most units.
5.56X45mm
Milforum Mac Daddy
Heckler & Koch did have a buyer.... the Bundeswehr. Then the Wall fell and they absorbed the stagnant economy we called the German Democratic Republic (East Germany). All of their money went down the drain into that sink hole of former socialism. Hell..... they're still losing money because of them. So the Bundeswehr dropped the idea of the G11 and went with it's backup. The G36. The original back up rifle was the G41.... a fine piece of weapon. But they scrapped that back in the 80s.... what a shame. They'd sell like hot cakes in the USA.
G3 shrunken down to the 5.56x45mm, worked of NATO STANGA 4179 Magazines. What's not to like..... oh well. I know the Itlians are pumping out G41s in a small number.... maybe I can get a parts kit and build it into a nice G41 Clone.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
When I joined the RAF I was also trained on the old Number 4 Mk2 Lee Enfield, in my opinion, along with the Number 1 Mk3* was the finest bolt action military rifle ever built, short throw, very smooth, fast bolt action and spare magazines could be carried. I own a few Lee Enfields today, both Number 4's and Number 1's, very accurate and reliable. I have witnessed Lee Enfields at Bisley in UK being used out to 1200 yards, accurately.
The British SLR L1A1 is a very different beast to the FN FAL, there were something like 20 mods carried out on the rifle, different gas regulator, cocking handle, take down catch, pistol grip, front and rear sights and working parts to name a few. As Lee stated, its biggest problem was its overall length, trying to get out of a Land Rover or Bedford in a hurry led to all kinds of problems, but overall it was a very good rifle, reliable, accurate and hard hitting.
The new SA80 is a vast improvement on the original version, but its still a rifle I would not like to be issued with. A family friend was part of the design team at Enfield Lock who was given the task "Make it work." His words to me were, "Its the worst piece of crap I have ever worked on in my life."
The main dislikes I dont like about the rifle is:-
(1) Can only be fired right handed. This could cause a problem firing around cover.
In my experience, the L1A1 SLR could and was fired left handed, so was the Lee Enfield and the GPMG. The only weapon that couldnt be fired left handed was the BREN because of the offset sights. Sterlings could be fired left handed, but wasn't recommended. I trained myself to fire my persanally owned FN FAL and Vektor Lm4 to fire off the right and left shoulder
(2) I dont like the posistion of the magazine of the SA80.
I managed far faster mag changes with rifles (such as the L1A1 and M16) where the magazine is in front of the trigger, then with the SA80.
The reasons I heard why the SAS wont use the SA80, "Its rubbish." They opted for a more conventional and reliable rifle.
LeEnfield
Active member
I have used the SA80 and because of the position of th magazine you still have a long barrel in what is a short rifle. Now just how many complaints have you seen about this rifle from troops out in Afghanistan and Iraq. Now as I have said I have been back to my old Regiment a number of times and they are quite happy with this rifle these days. Now I have been down on the ranges with the SA80 and I would have quite to go to war with it rather than the old .303. There is a shorter version out for the tank crews which is just 33 inches long yet still has a range of 500 yards.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
I wouldnt like to go to war full stop.
However, given the choice between an SA80, Lee Enfield, M16, my LM4 and the SLR L1A1 in a war situation, I'd opt for the L1A1 every time with the M16 and LM4 in equal second place over the SA80 for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post.
I assume you are talking about the shortened L22A1/L22A2 version of the SA80 with the 442 mm length barrel as opposed to the 518 mm barrel for the SA80. According to some reports, the shortened rifle has led to unreliabilty of the weapon.
While the NATO SS109 5.56mm 63 grain ammunition has longer legs then the original M193 55 grain 5.56mm, 500 metres is a bit of a stretch even for a full length barrel. Wind drift alone with a lighter calibre over long ditances plays havoc with accuracy. I have carried out a lot of testing and research with varying barrel lengths for various calibres including the 5.56/223, there is a marked difference in MV between the various barrel lengths.
I don't like the bullpup layout of the SA80, I never have and never will.
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gotcha1234
Active member
Xm08 seems to me as the best.