Replacing the M-14, M-16, M-4, XM-8 et al

The "bullpup"? Looks great in the movies though I haven't fired one I have serious doubts about its accuracy given the apparently short barrel length.
 
Bulldogg, bullpup design weapons do not have short barrels. Look at this for an example (note all stats taken from wikipedia). Accuracy is not an issue.

--BULLPUP--
F88 Steyr AUG = 508mm
SA80 = 518mm
FAMAS = 488mm

--CONVENTIONAL--
M16 = 508mm
M4 Carbine = 368.3mm
AK47 = 415mm
SLR = 533mm
HK G3 = 450mm
 
mmarsh said:
5.56 or any others

Have any of you guys had any experiance with the French FAMAS Clarion.
Its the standard issue of the French Military.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I do not like the Famas series of rifle. It works with US Ammunition. But it was designed to us French made ammo. ANd I still don't like the bullpup design of rifle. Many people say it's shorter. But AussieNick explains it perfectly. They're the same damn size as a CONVENTIONAL rifle. If the M16 series rifle didn't work. We (USA) would of changed to a different weapon system. It's just like when the Army tries to replace the M2H Browning .50 Caliber Machine Gun. Nothing just works as well as that. And I think that the M16 is perfect for what the military needs. You can use the same lower reciever and build different weapons off it. SMG, full length rifles, carbines, sniper rifles, belt fed machine guns, and so on... I don't see that with the AUG, AK, SA80, FAMAS, CETME/G3, XM-8, or HK G36.

--BULLPUP--
F88 Steyr AUG = 508mm
SA80 = 518mm
FAMAS = 488mm

--CONVENTIONAL--
M16 = 508mm
M4 Carbine = 368.3mm
AK47 = 415mm
SLR = 533mm
HK G3 = 450mm
HK G36 = 480mm
 
Many people say it's shorter. But AussieNick explains it perfectly. They're the same damn size as a CONVENTIONAL rifle.
Click to expand...


Total length

Steyr AUG = 790mm
M16 = 1002mm

You can see for example that, despite having identical barrel lengths, the F88 Steyr is a more compact weapon.

Plus the Steyr, through a simple barrel replacement can either be a carbine, an assault rifle, or a light support weapon. All without having to "rebuild" the weapon. All you need to do is push a button, pull the barrel out, and insert the new one.
 
5.56

I read your post with great interest.

I know your not a fan of any bullpup. I am curious however whats wrong with French ammo compared to US. Also, when you shoot foreign guns like the FAMAS, did you do that as a US Soldier or as your job as a gunsmith.

What is the policy in the Army about the training of non-US weapons and equipment. Is their actual training, or do you you just pick up a few souvenirs along your travels?
 
I trained with anything I could get my dirt little hands on while I was in the military. I have shot the FAMAS while in service and as a gun smith. The FAMAS was designed to use French military ammo. Which is loaded to different pressures than US SS109 FMJ. Also, the French military cartridge uses a heavier projectile. Somewhere around 62-65 Grains. While the US uses a 55 Grain projectile. And lastly the rate of twist on thhe FAMAS is a 1-6 Right Hand. While the M16 uses a 1-9 Right Hand twist. It spins the bullet faster so it gives it better control.


And someone mentioned that thhe Styer AUg can be converted to a 9mm Carbine/SMG.

THe M16 can be converted to 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .22 LR, and another number of calibers.
 
I've shot an M-14 before and it was very accurate, but yes it was kinda heavy. I must say though it didn't have lots of kickback, it just had a lot of barrel raise. I can only amagine full-auto, talk about an AA gun. LOL
 
ozmilman said:
Heh, yeah i knew that one dude, but i doubt that the Americans are gonna use weapons designed in Austria as their standard issue assault rifle. They always go for ones that are designed and made at home.

Steyr's are bloody awesome though aren't they! How much would they cost each?

Rich.
Click to expand...

Interstingly, they did consider the Steyr ACR to become the US next primary assault rifle, which to my knowledge wasn't even considered by the Austrian Army.
 
Mohmar Deathstrike said:
Interstingly, they did consider the Steyr ACR to become the US next primary assault rifle, which to my knowledge wasn't even considered by the Austrian Army.
Click to expand...

The HK G11 was also in the ACR contest. The small bullets are either of them would have shitty material penetration
 
CanadianCombat said:
I've shot an M-14 before and it was very accurate, but yes it was kinda heavy. I must say though it didn't have lots of kickback, it just had a lot of barrel raise. I can only amagine full-auto, talk about an AA gun. LOL
Click to expand...

Yes, wonderful sport shooting rifle too. I'd use it anyday.
 
Koz said:
The HK G11 was also in the ACR contest. The small bullets are either of them would have shitty material penetration
Click to expand...

Actually the g11 can fire 4.73mm if im correct at more than 3000 feet per second, it also has better penetration than a 5.56. also a 540 mm barrel.

G11 fires 3 round bursts, as a rate of 1100rpm. so you can shot a guy in the head 3 time without him ever knowing whats going on.

it also has a 45 round mag (2 can be put on the gun). the mag is quite small and much lighter, and you can carry many times as much in wieght compared to the 5.56.

g11compare.jpg
 
Last edited:
Obvious said:
Actually the g11 can fire 4.73mm if im correct at more than 3000 feet per second, it also has better penetration than a 5.56. also a 540 mm barrel.

G11 fires 3 round bursts, as a rate of 1100rpm. so you can shot a guy in the head 3 time without him ever knowing whats going on.

it also has a 45 round mag (2 can be put on the gun). the mag is quite small and much lighter, and you can carry many times as much in wieght compared to the 5.56.

g11compare.jpg
Click to expand...

So what happens when the caseless ammo gets wet?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top