Leave it to Chirac...

FlyingFrog said:
FF i understand that you like French because they are friendly to China , but think it from the other view.
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Why should I like or dislike French?

I only know France is doing for her own interests, and nothing wrong with this.
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The problem is that I believe that Chirac is doing things for his OWN self interest, not France's.
 
Doppleganger said:
FlyingFrog said:
FF i understand that you like French because they are friendly to China , but think it from the other view.
Click to expand...

Why should I like or dislike French?

I only know France is doing for her own interests, and nothing wrong with this.
Click to expand...

The problem is that I believe that Chirac is doing things for his OWN self interest, not France's.
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It's true, he's playing to his hard left-wing crowd and bringing down France because of it.

Before some French people criticize the US for imposing their "junk culture" on them, they should fix the socialist-like government they have first.
 
Well more basic than that.
The rampant Anti-Americanism is simply blinding them from all the obvious things. Really that's the main problem. Chirac of course is not trying to ease it, he's worsening it.
 
Frog, consider what France would stand to lose if they were to play China like that are the USA. How would you feel about the French if they took every possible opportunity to attack Chinese interests, berate them and belittle them no matter what. How would you feel about France then?
 
God, from your American point of view, you think France betrays you, but from France's point of view, they think you Americans are betraying them.

USA and France should be equal allies, not like the way USA is doing now, USA treats all her allies as puppets, all of them must listen to USA. France as one of the 5 UNSC members, no way France should follow USA's orders.

You are angry at France, because you "think" you are the master of France.
 
God, from your Chinese point of view, you think every ally of the US is a "puppet".

And what else do you call France's actions? What is agreeing to take action against Iraq if sanctions are violated, and yet when 17 are, no action is taken?

What is the oil for food scandel, when many UN secruty council members, including French politicians, are grabbing money and oil deals from Saddam? Not to mention one of Chirac's right-hand mans was in on it too.

What is it when French diplomats in Iraq help Iraqi's bypass the sanctions?

What is it when France trys to sell arms to Iraq, what, three months before the invasion?

It's the bribery, Frog. France, as well as others like Germany and Russia, were all in bed with Saddam. It's not as direct and conspiratorial as I may have made it sound, but they were not going to knock down a sweet deal like that.

And as this topic was started on, France continues to go around the world denouncing the US as the devil, huh, pretty hard to make an alliance out of that.
 
FlyingFrog said:
You are angry at France, because you "think" you are the master of France.
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I have no such illusions. You might have noticed that many of the people who have been the most outspoken against them in this thread are not American. Why would that be?
 
But Chocobo_Blitzer, you mentioned alot of what France did with Saddam, but you forgot to mention how much USA "cooperated" with Saddam before First Gulf War, and that famous Donald Ramsfeld smilingly shaking hands wit his ex-buddy Saddam Hossein :D

I really don't think everyone has right to accuse France at all.

Godofthunder:
Most of those out-spoken dudes on this forum are USA "allies", that's why :D
 
You have to put a timeline on these things, Frog. That was when we were worried about Iran, we used the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" approach. Yet Saddam ended up becoming a threat too.

I don't believe Donald shook his hand after that.

It's the fact France continued to deal with Iraq that makes it so bad.

Policies change, just like the US and Britian supported Russia in WWII, they later became bitter enemies. You cannot use past policies to equalize immedidate stances right now.
 
It's the fact France continued to deal with Iraq that makes it so bad.
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Iraq is your USA's enemy, but not an enemy of Frence, nor German, nor Chinese, nor Russian.

You don't like one guy, then how dare you to demand all other people to dislike this guy? Aren't you going a bit too far dictatorshipping I guess?
 
Alright see, you don't seem to understand what it means to be a "ally"

France says she is a ally of the US.... then......... the hell? Then it's a betrayal.

Pretend with me here this insane event. North Korea sends arms to Taiwan.... you wouldn't like it!

See, allies help each other, not power their enemies. But maybe I don't understand the Chinese version of an alliance.
 
Ally? What ally? Bush called the Europe of Germany and France the old Europe, USA is going to have some fun with new beauties like Poland etc.

Oh, maybe France and Germany don't want to be the so-called "allies of USA" at all, they have already had enough with you, they want to do their own bussiness.

So when others don't want to be your ally more, let it go.

If N.Korea wants to sell weapons to Taiwan, then it may do it, but dare they? That's the key issue.
 
France has their own agenda. I just wish that sabotaging the USA was not part of that agenda. They do seem to work that in whenever they can. I hold nothing against the French people. Its their nations foreign policy that ... puzzles me.

France is only an ally in catastrophic circumstances. You're right. They do have every right to make their own decicions. I just don't agree that their choices are actually helping France.
 
France and Germany continue to say they are allies with the US. Obviously their actions show otherwise, just like you said, they could give a crap about the US.

You don't have to be allies with the US, but deceit, no, I don't think so.
 
FlyingFrog said:
I just wish that sabotaging the USA
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My dear God :D

Please don't sabotage the France either :lol:

France prefers a multi-polar world, not a world dominated by USA :D
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Wouldn't that make them more allied against the United States than allied with? I believe that is the point that people are making.
 
I think we've pretty much explained it in the best way we can.
It's one of those things that just won't get through.
 
FlyingFrog said:
Ally? What ally? Bush called the Europe of Germany and France the old Europe, USA is going to have some fun with new beauties like Poland etc.

Oh, maybe France and Germany don't want to be the so-called "allies of USA" at all, they have already had enough with you, they want to do their own bussiness.

So when others don't want to be your ally more, let it go.

If N.Korea wants to sell weapons to Taiwan, then it may do it, but dare they? That's the key issue.
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France have always been about putting France first. Nothing wrong with that in principle but they do it even when it hurts the self interest of other so-called Allies. France has always been like that throughout the ages. Go back to the Middle ages and the French Kingdom claimed ownership over the English crown for a good 200 years or so.

Fast forward to 1944 where Charles De Gaulle insists that the Free French forces march at the head of the forces that liberate Paris.

Then in 1973 they refuse the UK entry into the then Common Market.

They refuse for their forces to be integrated into the command structure for NATO.

They opposed war with Iraq to protect their own self interests. They don't mind if their Allies take the brunt in the meantime.

I'm not gonna pretend that the US, UK or anyone else are holier than thou because they're not, far from it. But at least the US and UK back each other up. The US really did not have to get actively involved in the European theatre but they did. France were the biggest winners there because no USA in Europe meant that they'd be speaking either German or Russian.

France were dependant on US support to exist 60-65 years ago and they've hated them for it ever since.
 
I wonder who the first country Germany or France is gona call for support if WW3 breaks out? America, The sad/noble part about it is we would come to their aid in a heartbeat. Im not sure the same could be said for them.
 
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