is taiwan a card in a U.S-China politic game?

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Sexybeast

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is taiwan a card in a U.S-China politic game?



taiwan's strategic location is so important that it looks like an unsinkable aircraft carrier to U.S

to china, taiwan is the door opening to the pacific for china, also , U.S will be able to threaten china's most rich regions near taiwan if one day , a total war break out between china and U.S.

is taiwan a card?

U.S will condemn taiwan a bit whenever they need some cooperation from china (like in north korean incident, it is not coincidence that Colin Powell went to beijing and say taiwan belongs to china in the first time for many years )

U.S wil also uses taiwan when they think it is time to test china a bit, or warn china a bit

wut do u think?
 
Its a bone of contention and a silly excuse for justifying confrontation between China and the USA.

Consider that no Taiwan thread has ever failed to end up locked. That is how pointless the discussion is.
 
well guys and girls, lets have a breakthrough, lets not get this thread locked for once


i personally think that taiwan is a card to americans, but to the chinese it is very important, it is one of the land controled by rebels that has not been under chinese control yet.
 
AA said:
well guys and girls, lets have a breakthrough, lets not get this thread locked for once


i personally think that taiwan is a card to americans, but to the chinese it is very important, it is one of the land controled by rebels that has not been under chinese control yet.
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it's a free and independant country. with it's own laws, economy and political system. and has been independant of china since the Nationalist left the mainland.

time to let it go
 
AA said:
well guys and girls, lets have a breakthrough, lets not get this thread locked for once
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Now that would be quite the breakthrough. You may be sincere, but it always gets ruined by somebody or another. Personally, I don't understand why tiny scrap of land triggers so much anger and hostility.
i personally think that taiwan is a card to americans, but to the chinese it is very important, it is one of the land controled by rebels that has not been under chinese control yet.
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Make no mistake about it, Taiwan is a card that China plays as well. The PRC government seems determined to charge the subject of Taiwan with as much passion and bitterness as possible. It has been 60 years since a Mainland Chinese government had any control over Taiwan, but because of Chaing Kaishek's arrogance and delusions, they never declared themselves to be a separate nation. Currently, there is an even split within the Taiwanese people: half wish to remain "officially" a part of China and half wish to declare indepence. Obviously, a substantial number of them have a lot of loyalty to their motherland.

The point at which the entire free world takes exception to the PRC's stance is simple. The PRC has stated that, "the people of Taiwan have no right to decide the matter for themselves." If we are talking about a circumstances of insurrection and rebellion similar to the Amercian Civil War, such a stand would seem valid. But in this case, you have a land and an people who have been a separate country in everthing but name since the PRC took control of the mainland. You have a land and people that has never bound itself to a government (the PRC) and agreed to submit to their authority. And the PRC has never established their control of Taiwan. They never were under the PRC's control, so we have a completely different situation from the American Civil War.

One bit of nonsense is that any move by Taiwan away from the Mainland is somehow a move towards them being dominated by the USA.

How long can the discussion last without being locked???
 
lol, but whos got a more reasonable claim than PRC ( cmon people, its called CHINA, OFFCIALLY CHINA, MODERN CHINA the onlyh china()

but if you want to do it the so-called american way ( democratically according to the people), then lets split the islandin half, one belong to china becuase half the people supportss KMT, and the other half could go to the rebels

but we get taipei and the nrothern area
 
AA said:
lol, but whos got a more reasonable claim than PRC ( cmon people, its called CHINA, OFFCIALLY CHINA, MODERN CHINA the onlyh china()

but if you want to do it the so-called american way ( democratically according to the people), then lets split the islandin half, one belong to china becuase half the people supportss KMT, and the other half could go to the rebels

but we get taipei and the nrothern area
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Intesting plan, but wouldn't that just be contradictory? The PRC is crying out for reunification and reconciliation, so isn't that suggestion doing exactly the opposite thing. Since they are governed by a single government body currently, dividing them up would seem illogical.

I am surprised to see somebody speaking for China that is willing to be openminded about Taiwan though. Perhaps there is hope for meaningful discussion afterall.
 
please read my work again

it says if i was to use the american way


anyways, im for all taiwan and its chinese

besides, if china does atttack, whos got more right to attack

us and other countries has no right under any law to attack china for taking chinese territory under rebel control
 
AA said:
please read my work again

it says if i was to use the american way


anyways, im for all taiwan and its chinese

besides, if china does atttack, whos got more right to attack

us and other countries has no right under any law to attack china for taking chinese territory under rebel control
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But how do you claim Taiwan? I mean it's been under nationalist control since the beginning. If it was a rebell, it woul have to have been under your control at one point or another. As Taiwan's never been controlled by the PRC, you can't call it a rebellion.
 
AA said:
please read my work again

it says if i was to use the american way


anyways, im for all taiwan and its chinese

besides, if china does atttack, whos got more right to attack

us and other countries has no right under any law to attack china for taking chinese territory under rebel control
Click to expand...
That is what I have come to expect from the Chinese perspective. "Attack it!!! Killl it!!! Punish the traitors!!!" That is precisely why it is a pointless discussion.
 
That is what I have come to expect from the Chinese perspective. "Attack it!!! Killl it!!! Punish the traitors!!!" That is precisely why it is a pointless discussion.
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Laugh at the face of reality all you want GodofThunder9010. The Taiwan independence movement is a dangerous one and can escalate into a serious conflict. There is a definite need for a discussion and come to a relative understanding from both sides. But I cannot accept your simple conclusion to close this discussion at once.

It's important if you listen to Hong Kong's news commentaries and discussions to come up to some logical answer. You and I are not Chinese so we know nothing about the Chinese Perspective. So do not speak for others!

You might think relations between Taiwan and China are at a standstill, but economic exchanges are improving as they might become a vital asset in the stability and peace of this region. Two sides does not want to risk war knowing that serious consequences would follow. It seems that the PRC is more concerned in Economic Growth and rapid development rather than attacking the nearby island.

According to the Newsmanager in the International News Category, direct charter flights between two areas are open and farm imports are opened in Mainland Markets. Talks are being reached once again.
 
Cabal said:
That is what I have come to expect from the Chinese perspective. "Attack it!!! Killl it!!! Punish the traitors!!!" That is precisely why it is a pointless discussion.
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Laugh at the face of reality all you want GodofThunder9010.
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Didn't know I was joking. :shock:

The Taiwan independence movement is a dangerous one and can escalate into a serious conflict. There is a definite need for a discussion and come to a relative understanding from both sides. But I cannot accept your simple conclusion to close this discussion at once.
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Agreed, it is very dangerous and it needs to be thorough discouraged. Why? Because of China's level of determination on the issue. Because they have no intention of ever allowing Taiwan and its people to decide for themselves --- unless it is a decision to reunite --- the Independence Movement in Taiwan is extremely dangerous. So who is at fault for that danger? The danger wouldn't even exist without China stance on the Taiwan question. Frankly, it is an extremely reckless and stubborn stand to take. Taiwan Independence is stupid because it gains them absolutely nothing and has a strong chance of losing them everything.

It's important if you listen to Hong Kong's news commentaries and discussions to come up to some logical answer. You and I are not Chinese so we know nothing about the Chinese Perspective. So do not speak for others!
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Okay, fair enough, but there isn't anybody from Taiwan to take the opposite view, so the discussion then consists of a tiresome series of Chinamen reaffirming to each other how absolutely right and righteous their cause is and how evil Taiwan independence is, etc. My whole thought is, "Why can't they see any perspective but one? There are two sides to every issue and this is no different."

You might think relations between Taiwan and China are at a standstill, but economic exchanges are improving as they might become a vital asset in the stability and peace of this region. Two sides does not want to risk war knowing that serious consequences would follow. It seems that the PRC is more concerned in Economic Growth and rapid development rather than attacking the nearby island.

According to the Newsmanager in the International News Category, direct charter flights between two areas are open and farm imports are opened in Mainland Markets. Talks are being reached once again.
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Naturally, we all hope for the best. The best outcome would be reunification and reconciliation because the other path could lead to many catastrophes. If things are currently moving toward reunification, I am all for it. It would be nice to see the Taiwan question have a good ending.
 
This is the first time in a long time that I see a topic with "Taiwan" somewhere in the title that is not locked while I am browsing. Am I browsing this forum too infrequently or are the mods locking Taiwan-related threads with incredible high-efficiency? :shock:

There's no doubt that Taiwan is valuable to both China and the US. With the rise of China, the US cannot ignore the threat that the Chinese posses to the Americans. In my opinion, the best solution for the US is NOT an independent Taiwan, because that closes the chapter of Taiwan-China conflict and China would have all its time and resources to do something else. That idea cannot sit comfortably for the US. Letting China invade Taiwan and take control of the island, of course, is not much of a good idea either. It pretty much accomplishes the same thing, which is ending the Taiwan-China conflict. The US prefers the status-quo, acknowledges the One-China policy while emphasize the devotion towards the Taiwan Relations Act.

If you agree with my opinion, then you can quickly take away the idealistic notion that the US value Taiwan because it's a free and a democratic country. Taiwan is one of the biggest buyers of the US arms. If not for China, Taiwan would never need to spend so much money on military. China has 500+ missiles aiming at Taiwan. Without Taiwan, what could China have done with the resources spent constructing those missiles? I'll go even further to say that the US may not even like a good friendship between China and Taiwan. The status-quo is, Taiwan and China dislike each other, hold opposite opinions, and keep each other busy (well, Taiwan keeping China busy is more accurate).

So, my answer to this thread is: Yes, Taiwan is a card, and the US is enjoying the game right now because things are under control (Taiwan's president Chen has separated himself from the pro-independence parties). When the Taiwan-China conflict is over, that'll be the new chapter for China and the US both. I think China is more eager to enter that stage than the US is. In my opinion, 2006 is a dangerous time for Taiwan... Beijing's olympics is 2008, two years is enough for China to recover from an invasion of Taiwan...
 
chewie_nz said:
AA said:
well guys and girls, lets have a breakthrough, lets not get this thread locked for once


i personally think that taiwan is a card to americans, but to the chinese it is very important, it is one of the land controled by rebels that has not been under chinese control yet.
Click to expand...

it's a free and independant country. with it's own laws, economy and political system. and has been independant of china since the Nationalist left the mainland.

time to let it go
Click to expand...

so why France bothers to take back lands Germans had taken away from them many years ago, in 19th century.......if, every body lives according to ur theory that IT IS TIME TO LET IT GO....

the lands of taiwan has been taken by the acestors of chinese ppl (including a 56-ehtic groups), and built by the off springs of chinese ppl, and live like chinese ppl, (completely same culture, same lauguage (local taiwanese laugugae is a local lauguage of Fujian province in china, most of taiwanese population come from Fujian province in Ming dynasty))

taiwanese ppl dont want to get back to china cuz they want democracy, but in the future, china and taiwan wil still be together someday, cuz they are just the same.......
 
Sexybeast said:
so why France bothers to take back lands Germans had taken away from them many years ago, in 19th century.......if, every body lives according to ur theory that IT IS TIME TO LET IT GO....

the lands of taiwan has been taken by the acestors of chinese ppl (including a 56-ehtic groups), and built by the off springs of chinese ppl, and live like chinese ppl, (completely same culture, same lauguage (local taiwanese laugugae is a local lauguage of Fujian province in china, most of taiwanese population come from Fujian province in Ming dynasty))

taiwanese ppl dont want to get back to china cuz they want democracy, but in the future, china and taiwan wil still be together someday, cuz they are just the same.......
Click to expand...

Since we are supposed to have a "breakthrough" here, I won't mention what I disagree with you on. :cen: But yes, Taiwanese don't like China the way it is right now. And yes Taiwanese and Chinese share some things in common.
 
Zyca said:
Sexybeast said:
so why France bothers to take back lands Germans had taken away from them many years ago, in 19th century.......if, every body lives according to ur theory that IT IS TIME TO LET IT GO....

the lands of taiwan has been taken by the acestors of chinese ppl (including a 56-ehtic groups), and built by the off springs of chinese ppl, and live like chinese ppl, (completely same culture, same lauguage (local taiwanese laugugae is a local lauguage of Fujian province in china, most of taiwanese population come from Fujian province in Ming dynasty))

taiwanese ppl dont want to get back to china cuz they want democracy, but in the future, china and taiwan wil still be together someday, cuz they are just the same.......
Click to expand...

Since we are supposed to have a "breakthrough" here, I won't mention what I disagree with you on. :cen: But yes, Taiwanese don't like China the way it is right now. And yes Taiwanese and Chinese share some things in common.
Click to expand...

but i didn't finish.....if taiwan relies too heavily on U.S....that will be trouble in the future..
 
Sexybeast said:
so why France bothers to take back lands Germans had taken away from them many years ago, in 19th century.......if, every body lives according to ur theory that IT IS TIME TO LET IT GO....
Click to expand...
In that case, you had a German occupation of Allsace Lorraine - a coutry full of lots of French and lots of Germans, so both claimed it. Doesn't really fit for what you are talking about because the USA or UK or France or whoever else ... has not annexed Taiwan and made it their own. You hear mess of pure nonsense stating that, "any move toward independence for Taiwan is a move toward enslaving them to the USA". The USA has its influence over many things, but that is one helluva stretch. The USA has nothing to gain from Taiwanese Independence that they do not already have now, but they stand to lose a great deal if Southeast Asia is thrown into war by the matter.

What choice does the United States have but to favor the Status Quo?

the lands of taiwan has been taken by the acestors of chinese ppl
(including a 56-ehtic groups), and built by the off springs of chinese ppl, and live like chinese ppl, (completely same culture, same lauguage (local taiwanese laugugae is a local lauguage of Fujian province in china, most of taiwanese population come from Fujian province in Ming dynasty))
Click to expand...
What has that got to do with drawing borders on the world map anyways? Doesn't seem to stop anyone else on this planet from doing their own thing. Examples are endless.

taiwanese ppl dont want to get back to china cuz they want democracy, but in the future, china and taiwan wil still be together someday, cuz they are just the same.......
Click to expand...
Lets face it, right now Taiwan is doing just fine on their own. China needs to make it worth their while. Invasion isn't likely to endear PRC rule to the hearts of the people of Taiwan. The best end to the story would be peaceful reunification.
 
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