Czin
Active member
I disagree, I say human stupidity is evenly distributed.
Is Hollywood right to rewrite WW2 history?
rattler
Active member
I get hysterically when I hear something like that:
The school system??? What about the parents?
From my POV this is where education should be centered.
I am with Knitghtemplar, today we pass on responsability to the school (often because both parents have to work and cannot find/do not want to find the time to spend to educate their kids as it should be), we have been trained to leave education to the "School system" as if this was normal and the way it should be, after all, that is the easy way and easy to find someone to blame if something fails.
But: If it fails, the failure is ours (as parents) from my POV, only blind to social conditioning people will think the few hours of school can compensate for what the kids live and learn - or not - (from example, more or less) at home.
To the one´s complaining: When did you last see a movie togehter with your kids, commenting on it? When did you last read a book together? When did you last discuss (or even ask about) their take on *their* problems they face every day? When did you last ask them about their view on history and gave you part?
Rattler
Last edited:
Jeff Simmons
Active member
My worst pet peeve
I saw the movie, "Pearl Harbor," and I was aghast at the way Hollywood had twisted the truth. In particular, there was one scene where one character was at an airfield under attack, and he's on the phone with his buddy, and he says, "I think World War II just started."
The first glaring error here is that war had been raging in Asia since the 1930s, and by the time Pearl Harbor was attacked, Hitler had conquered most of Europe. World War II did not start with Pearl Harbor.
The second error is that World War I was not called "World War I" at that time. It was called the Great War, so therefore, no one at Pearl Harbor would have stated that "World War II just started."
I learned about World War II from talking to family members and other veterans who were actually there. I also studied military history in college and read thousands of detailed accounts of particular events written by people who played a part in them.
Unfortunately, most people don't want to take on that kind of work and would rather watch movies instead.
I saw the movie, "Pearl Harbor," and I was aghast at the way Hollywood had twisted the truth. In particular, there was one scene where one character was at an airfield under attack, and he's on the phone with his buddy, and he says, "I think World War II just started."
The first glaring error here is that war had been raging in Asia since the 1930s, and by the time Pearl Harbor was attacked, Hitler had conquered most of Europe. World War II did not start with Pearl Harbor.
The second error is that World War I was not called "World War I" at that time. It was called the Great War, so therefore, no one at Pearl Harbor would have stated that "World War II just started."
I learned about World War II from talking to family members and other veterans who were actually there. I also studied military history in college and read thousands of detailed accounts of particular events written by people who played a part in them.
Unfortunately, most people don't want to take on that kind of work and would rather watch movies instead.
Botak
Active member
For my part, while I sometimes find inaccuracy in films ranging from amusing to outright galling (Screenwriter Randall Wallace's stated defence is "I don't let history dictate my writing, as I'm happy to let a good story be the history for people rather than the facts"), the point is well made and taken that movies are there to entertain and make money.
When I was eight, I saw my first "war movie" - Guns of the Navarone. I didn't actually read an Alastair MacLean novel until years later, and then had to put it down because the instantaneous unexplained plot twists were literally laughable... but the point is that first movie gave me an interest in history, which sure enough, led to me read non-fiction books on history and educating myself that way.
I can't think of a single film significant industry out there (be it Hollywood, UK/Euro, or HK) which really cares about educating it's audience, and I don't think they should. Hopefully what they're doing instead is inspiring younger audiences to learn about what really happened (as opposed to what happened on the big screen).
Someone mentioned "The Longest Day"... I'd read both "The Longest Day" and "A Bridge Too Far" before I watched either film with my grandfather. That's a bigger accomplishment than it sounds, considering Cornelius Ryan wasn't a pop-"historian" like Ambrose was, and I was thirteen when I read them.
Agreed sometimes movies **** me. But movies should inspire, books should educate. I don't think even a good documentary really tells as much as a book does, unless of course you're dealing with an entire documentary series which gives the writers of that series time enough to really dig into the content - I find "The World at War" to be an outstanding documentary series for WW2 because it's so accessible, but yet stll informative and balanced... even if it is aged.
When I was eight, I saw my first "war movie" - Guns of the Navarone. I didn't actually read an Alastair MacLean novel until years later, and then had to put it down because the instantaneous unexplained plot twists were literally laughable... but the point is that first movie gave me an interest in history, which sure enough, led to me read non-fiction books on history and educating myself that way.
I can't think of a single film significant industry out there (be it Hollywood, UK/Euro, or HK) which really cares about educating it's audience, and I don't think they should. Hopefully what they're doing instead is inspiring younger audiences to learn about what really happened (as opposed to what happened on the big screen).
Someone mentioned "The Longest Day"... I'd read both "The Longest Day" and "A Bridge Too Far" before I watched either film with my grandfather. That's a bigger accomplishment than it sounds, considering Cornelius Ryan wasn't a pop-"historian" like Ambrose was, and I was thirteen when I read them.
Agreed sometimes movies **** me. But movies should inspire, books should educate. I don't think even a good documentary really tells as much as a book does, unless of course you're dealing with an entire documentary series which gives the writers of that series time enough to really dig into the content - I find "The World at War" to be an outstanding documentary series for WW2 because it's so accessible, but yet stll informative and balanced... even if it is aged.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
For my part, while I sometimes find inaccuracy in films ranging from amusing to outright galling (Screenwriter Randall Wallace's stated defence is "I don't let history dictate my writing, as I'm happy to let a good story be the history for people rather than the facts"), the point is well made and taken that movies are there to entertain and make money.
When I was eight, I saw my first "war movie" - Guns of the Navarone. I didn't actually read an Alastair MacLean novel until years later, and then had to put it down because the instantaneous unexplained plot twists were literally laughable... but the point is that first movie gave me an interest in history, which sure enough, led to me read non-fiction books on history and educating myself that way.
I can't think of a single film significant industry out there (be it Hollywood, UK/Euro, or HK) which really cares about educating it's audience, and I don't think they should. Hopefully what they're doing instead is inspiring younger audiences to learn about what really happened (as opposed to what happened on the big screen).
Someone mentioned "The Longest Day"... I'd read both "The Longest Day" and "A Bridge Too Far" before I watched either film with my grandfather. That's a bigger accomplishment than it sounds, considering Cornelius Ryan wasn't a pop-"historian" like Ambrose was, and I was thirteen when I read them.
Agreed sometimes movies **** me. But movies should inspire, books should educate. I don't think even a good documentary really tells as much as a book does, unless of course you're dealing with an entire documentary series which gives the writers of that series time enough to really dig into the content - I find "The World at War" to be an outstanding documentary series for WW2 because it's so accessible, but yet stll informative and balanced... even if it is aged.
I agree that movies should be allowed to come up with far fetched stories even within a historical context, if they are making a movie about WW2 I have no objection to fictional battles and actions being filmed as such however when you are making stories about actual events such as the capture of the Enigma codes the story should as least carry enough truth to be identifiable.
If you compare U571 and Saving Private Ryan, we know both of these movies are based on actual events, U571 is just a complete fabrication that is little more than an insult to the crew of HMS Bulldog and Saving Private Ryan hides its fictional part within a setting that does not bastardise the actual event.
Partisan
Active member
My biggest fear is that people regard films set in a historical context as fact, rather than accept the films for what they are - entertainment, with a message maybe, but still entertainment.
I tend to find that I'm intrigued by the story behind some films and that causes me to investigate further to find out more about the true events, so that I'm better informed, but at the end of the day I'm watching a film to be entertained, education comes through documentaries, investigation and questioning on my own part.
As far as I'm concerned Hollywood, Bollywood and any other 'wood can keep 'em rolling, these films are homages to events, as with all homages they focus on the story rather than the truth, but they shine a light on the event and thus help to reveal the truth to those inspired by the event.
I tend to find that I'm intrigued by the story behind some films and that causes me to investigate further to find out more about the true events, so that I'm better informed, but at the end of the day I'm watching a film to be entertained, education comes through documentaries, investigation and questioning on my own part.
As far as I'm concerned Hollywood, Bollywood and any other 'wood can keep 'em rolling, these films are homages to events, as with all homages they focus on the story rather than the truth, but they shine a light on the event and thus help to reveal the truth to those inspired by the event.
Jeff Simmons
Active member
Reality
I truly dislike films that are really poorly-packaged action films, like "Fly Boys," which has virtually no plot but a lot of special effects. (Watch it if you want, but it will probably make you laugh more than anything). My favorites are the ones that reveal stories that are firmly anchored in reality. I believe "A Bridge Too Far" is a great view of Operation Market Garden. "Midway," despite it's focus on individual triumphs and losses, seems to present a lot of truth. And "Tora! Tora! Tora!" is probably the best movie about Pearl Harbor. In fact, we watched it in a WWII history course in college.
I truly dislike films that are really poorly-packaged action films, like "Fly Boys," which has virtually no plot but a lot of special effects. (Watch it if you want, but it will probably make you laugh more than anything). My favorites are the ones that reveal stories that are firmly anchored in reality. I believe "A Bridge Too Far" is a great view of Operation Market Garden. "Midway," despite it's focus on individual triumphs and losses, seems to present a lot of truth. And "Tora! Tora! Tora!" is probably the best movie about Pearl Harbor. In fact, we watched it in a WWII history course in college.
iron cross
Active member
Hollywood changing war history
no i don,t think its right not when Hollywood makes out that every German is evil and all the us is angels and never did anything wrong some Germans was evil but some never liked the war and was just following orders
no i don,t think its right not when Hollywood makes out that every German is evil and all the us is angels and never did anything wrong some Germans was evil but some never liked the war and was just following orders
Partisan
Active member
But it has provided job security for lots of non American actors - after all! For a while you couldn't have a villain without a British, Russian or German accent!
What Hollywood says is protected free speech. Gibberish is a subjective opinion of mine and others, and also protected free speech. They can say whatever they want, mostly.
What Hollywood sells is suspension of disbelief. Entertainment. So long as people spend money to see it, they will sell it.
Is is morally right for Hollywood to "forget" what the UK did in WWII? No. Is it going to change? No.
In the 1940s If I predicted that women would be seen topless in movies, it would be a scandal. Morality is seldom found in Hollywood, except as subject of a parody.
It is up to parents to proctor the schools and the teachers, but sadly in the US we really don't. We have generations of teachers who went to school to teach teachers and few exceptions to the profile. Education is too broad a topic and off the topic.
I do wish Pinewood studios would do some historical Dramas of, Say, Field Marshal Sir Harold Alexander, or that chap in the Black Beret who tormented Patton.
As an aside: My favorite Movie is "IN HARM'S WAY" which is set in WWII but hardly historical.
What Hollywood sells is suspension of disbelief. Entertainment. So long as people spend money to see it, they will sell it.
Is is morally right for Hollywood to "forget" what the UK did in WWII? No. Is it going to change? No.
In the 1940s If I predicted that women would be seen topless in movies, it would be a scandal. Morality is seldom found in Hollywood, except as subject of a parody.
It is up to parents to proctor the schools and the teachers, but sadly in the US we really don't. We have generations of teachers who went to school to teach teachers and few exceptions to the profile. Education is too broad a topic and off the topic.
I do wish Pinewood studios would do some historical Dramas of, Say, Field Marshal Sir Harold Alexander, or that chap in the Black Beret who tormented Patton.
As an aside: My favorite Movie is "IN HARM'S WAY" which is set in WWII but hardly historical.