FlyingFrog
Active member
Please mates, let's return back to Topic:
Human rights ( in military)
Human rights ( in military)
Human rights ( in military)
Big_Z said:
And then there's me. Im a mainland Chinese person BUT I live in the United Kingdom. It's interesting that you quote "the media" as opposed to "their media" because, Im hoping, that you understand that "western" media is also biased in its reporting of China. ESPECIALLY in the USA.
As for Tibet it is not "one word". Many people it seems believe in meaningless "freedom" and in that case I suppose Tibet had it all before the PLA. Yes it had ANARCHY. Quoting Tibet as a one word response just infurates me because it seems people actually believe that Tibet was some kind of spiritual EUTOPIA.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Cruel reality? The reality is, though the treatment was totally inappropriate, it was not by any means the kind of crazy stuff the American media blew it up to be.
When I hear torture, I think of actual, REAL torture, not something that ranks as a Fraternity prank.
Rolling over students with tanks however... now that is cruelty isn't it?
Plus not to mention you totally missed my point about the plan or the written statement, and the reality.
If you were paying any attention, the American media was really critical about it. Perhaps more than it needed to be.
Compare the following:
Posing Iraqis naked, stacked on top of each other or balancing him on a box with wires they say are electric but in fact are nothing but wires. to....
1) Crushing people with tanks
2) Capturing a dissident and cutting an arm off.
3) Hunting down someone for adultery and stoning them to death
4) Kidnapping a baby, cutting out the guts and using it as a drug bag
5) Cutting out tongues
etc etc.
That's torture.
Abu Grahib was not cool. The perpetrators did deserve to be punished because if this did not go punished, it could lead to ACTUAL torture.
Keep it in perspective.
When I hear torture, I think of actual, REAL torture, not something that ranks as a Fraternity prank.
Rolling over students with tanks however... now that is cruelty isn't it?
Plus not to mention you totally missed my point about the plan or the written statement, and the reality.
If you were paying any attention, the American media was really critical about it. Perhaps more than it needed to be.
Compare the following:
Posing Iraqis naked, stacked on top of each other or balancing him on a box with wires they say are electric but in fact are nothing but wires. to....
1) Crushing people with tanks
2) Capturing a dissident and cutting an arm off.
3) Hunting down someone for adultery and stoning them to death
4) Kidnapping a baby, cutting out the guts and using it as a drug bag
5) Cutting out tongues
etc etc.
That's torture.
Abu Grahib was not cool. The perpetrators did deserve to be punished because if this did not go punished, it could lead to ACTUAL torture.
Keep it in perspective.
FlyingFrog said:
FlyingFrog
Active member
the_13th_redneck said:
Dude, 2 points here for U:
1. Tanks rolling over students? Are you sure? Or you just imagine or believed in some "western" propaganda?
2. Even if tanks rolled over students, whose fault? It would not be like that the tanks deliberatly role over a crowd of students, it must have been that the students stood in the way, they didn't want to avoid the tank, they chosed to be rolde over by tanks, own fault. BTW, see Point 1.
3. I know when a person is brainwashed, he would not like to face the truth anymore, he will stick to the faulty information, sad for him.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Dude, I saw it with my own eyes okay? Unless the TV crews were just filming an excellent Hollywood fake, it was real. And being 1989, Hollywood effects were quite crap still (ditto Robocop). Why don't you go to that site and take a look for yourself? I can't believe the stuff you're saying. I can't believe that something happened in 1989 and already people don't even know it happened.
This is absolutely ridiculous.
But I'm not surprised. I've heard this sort of rubbish from the likes of you anyways.
North Korea as "nice and clean... a good place to live." That's not from you but from another Chinese guy I talked to.
You're brainwashed one.
And who's fault was it? They were staging an unarmed, peaceful protest. Unauthorized yes, but my god... to roll over them with tanks?
How is it that everyone knows about this but you?
Propaganda in the west is VERY difficult because of the free press. When something as big as Tianamen Square happens, it becomes an investigative operation. Not to mention the scholars who back it up even YEARS after it happened (usually reactions right afterwards or during the time can be scewed due to sentiment or emotion). Same goes to many other countries. The same cannot be said of China.
You have serious human rights issues and it's not for no reason that people always had problems with China hosting stuff, especially the Olympics.
The only person to be sad to is you.
p.s. from now on, even American sources on this incident might diminish because they want to see China as a great economic opportunity and try to somewhat hide the past that would stir up controversy and obsticles.
This is absolutely ridiculous.
But I'm not surprised. I've heard this sort of rubbish from the likes of you anyways.
North Korea as "nice and clean... a good place to live." That's not from you but from another Chinese guy I talked to.
You're brainwashed one.
And who's fault was it? They were staging an unarmed, peaceful protest. Unauthorized yes, but my god... to roll over them with tanks?
How is it that everyone knows about this but you?
Propaganda in the west is VERY difficult because of the free press. When something as big as Tianamen Square happens, it becomes an investigative operation. Not to mention the scholars who back it up even YEARS after it happened (usually reactions right afterwards or during the time can be scewed due to sentiment or emotion). Same goes to many other countries. The same cannot be said of China.
You have serious human rights issues and it's not for no reason that people always had problems with China hosting stuff, especially the Olympics.
The only person to be sad to is you.
p.s. from now on, even American sources on this incident might diminish because they want to see China as a great economic opportunity and try to somewhat hide the past that would stir up controversy and obsticles.
FlyingFrog
Active member
Let's focus on one issue at a moment:
PLA tanks roling over students.
Did you see it?
Show the picture of Tanks roling over students, you have one?
Yeah, I know you will post that bike being roled picture, with red color.
But do you know what that picture really is?
It is indeed a bike being roled, that bike is of RED color, we have in Chinese forums discussed that picture many times.
But of course you would like to ASSUME that bike picture is about a student being roled over by tank. A bike with a student on it? Or just a ABNONDED red color bike?
When some students fled to US, they told the Press, in Tiananmen, it was like blood floating like river, yeah, you would like to believe in that. When you are against something, you would like to say anything bad against it, or believe in anything bad about it.
PLA tanks roling over students.
Did you see it?
Show the picture of Tanks roling over students, you have one?
Yeah, I know you will post that bike being roled picture, with red color.
But do you know what that picture really is?
It is indeed a bike being roled, that bike is of RED color, we have in Chinese forums discussed that picture many times.
But of course you would like to ASSUME that bike picture is about a student being roled over by tank. A bike with a student on it? Or just a ABNONDED red color bike?
When some students fled to US, they told the Press, in Tiananmen, it was like blood floating like river, yeah, you would like to believe in that. When you are against something, you would like to say anything bad against it, or believe in anything bad about it.
MadeInChina
Active member
The rapes and deaths in panama, japan, korea, and just as well as any american military base in the world is true and real.
If it really is a Fraternity prank, then it is still really a violation of human rights because it is a disgrace to the prisioner maybe??? a disgrace to ther religion maybe??? and they probalydidnt choose to have it done on themselves??/
IN tiananmen, the students, young and naive, was at most times fueled by propanganda from taiwanese and hongers who were present at the place, they supported the student riots, they supported them by giving htem money and food.
And the pictures...... Shows no sign of tank over body, but bloodstains caused by bullets. Have u seen roadkill before??????? but with 50 ton tanks???
Those bodies btw, some 50 percent at least, were the bodies of later survivors, whom did not get killed but were uncouncious
http://www.deoxy.org/wc/warcrime.htm
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3450.htm
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/06hrights/GeoRegions/NorthAmerica/china00.htm
If it really is a Fraternity prank, then it is still really a violation of human rights because it is a disgrace to the prisioner maybe??? a disgrace to ther religion maybe??? and they probalydidnt choose to have it done on themselves??/
IN tiananmen, the students, young and naive, was at most times fueled by propanganda from taiwanese and hongers who were present at the place, they supported the student riots, they supported them by giving htem money and food.
And the pictures...... Shows no sign of tank over body, but bloodstains caused by bullets. Have u seen roadkill before??????? but with 50 ton tanks???
Those bodies btw, some 50 percent at least, were the bodies of later survivors, whom did not get killed but were uncouncious
http://www.deoxy.org/wc/warcrime.htm
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3450.htm
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/06hrights/GeoRegions/NorthAmerica/china00.htm
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
The "Frat prank" comparison was just to tell you that although their stuff was totally inappropriate, and it did violate the Geneva convention, it wasn't the worst thing in the world.
If Americans screw up, the word gets out. There's an investigation etc. If the US don't find WMDs in Iraq, they don't plant one to say there's one there. If a soldier rapes a local girl, it's investigated and it's on the papers.
On the other hand, China covers up not only incidents but loves to rewrite history (Fresh claims of ancient Korean kingdoms actually being a part of China, the whole ancient claims of the Spratleys and not to mention the whole Taiwan thing).
Taiwan, Korea and Hong Kong (at least pre-1997 takeover) all had to answer to free press. If not their own, at least the Western and other journalists that make livings there. China doesn't live under that scrutiny.
Remember the SARS outbreak? The Chinese did SO HARD to try to cover it up. Even my friend who was studying in Beijing at the time (he is from Hong Kong) told me about how they tried to cover it up but failed.
I believe a good deal of information actually came out of Hong Kong when it eventually spread there.
The record and the pattern is consistent.
If not Tiananment square, there would have been other things just buried in the vastness of Chinese territory.
If Americans screw up, the word gets out. There's an investigation etc. If the US don't find WMDs in Iraq, they don't plant one to say there's one there. If a soldier rapes a local girl, it's investigated and it's on the papers.
On the other hand, China covers up not only incidents but loves to rewrite history (Fresh claims of ancient Korean kingdoms actually being a part of China, the whole ancient claims of the Spratleys and not to mention the whole Taiwan thing).
Taiwan, Korea and Hong Kong (at least pre-1997 takeover) all had to answer to free press. If not their own, at least the Western and other journalists that make livings there. China doesn't live under that scrutiny.
Remember the SARS outbreak? The Chinese did SO HARD to try to cover it up. Even my friend who was studying in Beijing at the time (he is from Hong Kong) told me about how they tried to cover it up but failed.
I believe a good deal of information actually came out of Hong Kong when it eventually spread there.
The record and the pattern is consistent.
If not Tiananment square, there would have been other things just buried in the vastness of Chinese territory.
03USMC
Active member
US Police Services targeting Latinos and African Americans?
Hey thats called racial profiling and in most jurisdictions it's illegal.
I'm Latino and a Cop and I can truthfully say that I have never been stopped because of mis Raza Sabes? I've been stopped for speeding etc.
The people who you hear crying about are criminals who got caught.
Uncountable Times force was used TO KILL Protesters in the 60's
Are talking about Kent State? One incident?
Yeah okay. Your right the PRC has a much better record than us, at least according to them cough Communist Party cough.
Hey thats called racial profiling and in most jurisdictions it's illegal.
I'm Latino and a Cop and I can truthfully say that I have never been stopped because of mis Raza Sabes? I've been stopped for speeding etc.
The people who you hear crying about are criminals who got caught.
Uncountable Times force was used TO KILL Protesters in the 60's
Are talking about Kent State? One incident?
Yeah okay. Your right the PRC has a much better record than us, at least according to them cough Communist Party cough.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
03USMC, this is pretty much the stuff you get when youc all killing 1 guy a massacre, when you call police racial profiling full blown Apartheid, etc. You water it down ... you're not just exagerrating events happening, worse, you are watering down the real culprits.
Take it from the Communist party. North Korea's a decent and clean country that looks nice to live in.
In the West, and in most of the world where there are international groups of journalists, you can definately SPIN the news. However, any further than spin, and it gets suspicious and eventually other news networks will report the contrary.
However, in China you don't have that. And therefore not only do you have spin, you have massive propaganda.
Take it from the Communist party. North Korea's a decent and clean country that looks nice to live in.
In the West, and in most of the world where there are international groups of journalists, you can definately SPIN the news. However, any further than spin, and it gets suspicious and eventually other news networks will report the contrary.
However, in China you don't have that. And therefore not only do you have spin, you have massive propaganda.
ai ya..i just watched CNN's documentry about Tiananmen Square stuff,
CNN dude, they cant even find a footage where it shows that a PLA soldier is killing a citizen, they cant find it
why so many ppl are making up those horrific tales, about PLA
when students were surrouend in Tiananmen Suqre, PLA opened a corner and let those students go, they didn't massacre them, CNN approves with it, the most killing happend on the way to Tiananmen Square,
one of my dad 's freind was a soldier there, he stil has a big scar on his hand when a student throw a huge rock at him .
CNN dude, they cant even find a footage where it shows that a PLA soldier is killing a citizen, they cant find it
why so many ppl are making up those horrific tales, about PLA
when students were surrouend in Tiananmen Suqre, PLA opened a corner and let those students go, they didn't massacre them, CNN approves with it, the most killing happend on the way to Tiananmen Square,
one of my dad 's freind was a soldier there, he stil has a big scar on his hand when a student throw a huge rock at him .
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Asskicker said:
Oh and in return....
There's plenty of stuff out there that happened that you can't find evidence of. Can you prove that US Airplanes bombed the Iraqi convoy on the "highway of death?"
Find me the evidence.
Big_Z
MilForum Recon
the_13th_redneck said:Asskicker said:
Oh and in return....
There's plenty of stuff out there that happened that you can't find evidence of. Can you prove that US Airplanes bombed the Iraqi convoy on the "highway of death?"
Find me the evidence.
Well you can just drive along the highway and see the mass graveyard of vehicles.
i dont know about that, but i saw a video that shows wut was the highway looks like after the bombing in a two series documentry about Gulf War on History Channel
but wut i was tring to say is no country is perfect in its human right record, before u condemn other countries, think about urself first
but wut i was tring to say is no country is perfect in its human right record, before u condemn other countries, think about urself first
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Hey, who's to say the American's blew them up? Are you sure the Iraqi's didn't have a massive traffic accident? Or find me evidence of a dead Iraqi there... one that will REALLY convince me. So if you can't find one, does that mean no Iraqi died there?
My point is, it's not always easy for us to find the evidence. Even with things that happened. I know the Highway of Death incident happened. But the proof for that seems no better than the proof on Tianamen Square.
Because you can always say, "no, I want to see a US plane drop the bomb and I want to see the bomb hit a column of trucks, and I won't take those fuzzy FLIR images for evidence."
My point is, it's not always easy for us to find the evidence. Even with things that happened. I know the Highway of Death incident happened. But the proof for that seems no better than the proof on Tianamen Square.
Because you can always say, "no, I want to see a US plane drop the bomb and I want to see the bomb hit a column of trucks, and I won't take those fuzzy FLIR images for evidence."
lol....
all ppl are bad, just in different degrees,
well, the high way things, i dont know much about that, so i won't talk much about it, but from wut i watched, General S. the commander of Gulf war, he confessed that "it is sort of tragety" on the highway
anyways, all country have their faults,
again i want to say, look after urself before condemn others
all ppl are bad, just in different degrees,
well, the high way things, i dont know much about that, so i won't talk much about it, but from wut i watched, General S. the commander of Gulf war, he confessed that "it is sort of tragety" on the highway
anyways, all country have their faults,
again i want to say, look after urself before condemn others