How to stop China

[Red_Army]

If we look through the History, China for many times became World Number One. And what u read from the history as the result, when China were strong, they never ever invade any neighbouring country,colonise them, claim them as low class tribe/races. But what u see trough the history is -- mercy,friendly diplomatic and good trading. What abour western world? Imperialist,colony, looking down at other races and tribes, massacre.

In fact one very good thing is that, China's gunpowder technology had been introduced to Islam world (turkey?) then European got the related technology. And Gunpowder is the most important reason for why European became so strong nowadays.

This is a joke. The Chinese have conquered and invaded neighboring countries a lot of times in the past, here is proof.

In 221BC, the Qin Dynasty of China invaded Vietnam. The Vietnamese re-gained independence in 939AD led by Ngo Quyen.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761552648_5/Vietnam.html#s97

In the 18th century, the Manchu-Qing Dynasty of China conquered Tibet.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761567065_2/Tibet.html

During the Qing Dynasty, Mongolia was ruled by China.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761565003_3/Mongolia_(country).html#s23

In 630AD, the Tang Dynasty invaded the Turks, taking their land away for westward expansion. http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761573055_9/China.html

To say that China did not do anything bad is totally false. They are just as guilty as any other nation in the world.

 

[Kinection]

Red Army, look at your time period. Those are Qin Dynasty. Today, it's the PRC.

If you like to talk about that, you may as well bring up American expansion westward?

Are we seeing a pattern yet? Say and believe what you will but China is very interested in expanding it's brand of communism.

Chinese doctorine is focused on the defense of China, right down to the bullet (5.8mm).
You will notice that the countries that are being "influenced" are near China? This is for the protection of it's borders, China was not going to allow the US to firmly establish a foothold in North Korea or Vietnam, why? Because there is fear of westerners trying to spread their influence.

The land grab of North Korea was merely "western aggression" huh? The invasion of Afganistan must have been western aggression, too.

The grab for North Korea by the Americans? Push up all the way to the border? Americans supporting the Mujahedeen (Afghanistan)? Saddam Hussein himself?

Besides, China is becoming less and less communist.

 

[Big_Z]

Just because your economy is growing fast does not mean your going to be a superpower. I honestly think if China troops went up against battle hardened western troops they would get crushed pretty quickly. The only people who think China is a super strong military power are Chinese people.

 

[A Can of Man]

China's neighbors can readily tell you that they are a bunch of very bad apples.

Just because your economy is growing fast does not mean your going to be a superpower. I honestly think if China troops went up against battle hardened western troops they would get crushed pretty quickly. The only people who think China is a super strong military power are Chinese people.

I wouldn't say so. The Chinese are a tough group of people too. They are well disciplined and the ideas of self-sacrifice for the good of the others is an idea I have found that has sat better with Sino-Asian cultures than with those of European roots.
The average run of the line European trooper will get ripped to shreds in front of a Chinese formation.

Are we seeing a pattern yet? Say and believe what you will but China is very interested in expanding it's brand of communism.

I think China's honeymoon with communism is over. This is why China's been doing well. They got rid of that stupid idea and started running their country like a company.

 

[Red_Army]

If we look through the History, China for many times became World Number One. And what u read from the history as the result, when China were strong, they never ever invade any neighbouring country,colonise them, claim them as low class tribe/races. But what u see trough the history is -- mercy,friendly diplomatic and good trading. What abour western world? Imperialist,colony, looking down at other races and tribes, massacre.

In fact one very good thing is that, China's gunpowder technology had been introduced to Islam world (turkey?) then European got the related technology. And Gunpowder is the most important reason for why European became so strong nowadays.

Red Army, look at your time period. Those are Qin Dynasty. Today, it's the PRC.

If you like to talk about that, you may as well bring up American expansion westward?

I know I looked at my time period! Ezechiel said, HISTORY!!! History includes the Qin, Tang, and Qing Dynasties. He didn't say present day China, you did! Ezechiel said, "China for many times became World Number One", that means he was mentioning history, not PRC. Next time, do a little research before you quote others! I think your pro-Chinese.

 

[godofthunder9010]

The question of whether China was the most powerful nation in the world at times ... well its awfully hard to say. The West and the East barely interacted until very recent times, so who was more powerful than who is pretty impossible to tell.

One interesting thing is that if China rapidly moves forward in strength, India is going to be driven to catch up for its own security. People can say what they want about "good relations", but they are hardly fast friends.

On the whole, China has too much of a reputation as a bully for most of the world to trust them. This is the greatest obstacle in them becoming more influential in the worldwide scene. The world, as a whole, isn't sure they can trust China. Its up to them to change their image.

 

[Ezechiel]

Red Army :

Hahahahahhahahah, red army don't try to talk about MALAYSIA WITH ME! COZ I AM MALAYSIAN!~

North Korea -- In the early of the war, The north Korean communist almost won the war,and then USA joined in. When USA almost won it, then only China involved. Why China involved? The naswer is simple. If u were the president of China, when a super power did something in ur neighbouring area, they can settle down information centre to spy u. Will u want that?

Vietnam -- Chna never help Vietnam in Vietnam war. But in fact I did read an article last time that China unofficially had aid a number of fighters to AGAINST USA(Which means China did not involved in Com,munism influence to Vietnam in the early period). This story maybe happen and maybe not. But looking trough the whole Vietnam war,basically China did not get involve.

I tell u,after Vietnam became communist country, they then provoked by Russian to against the China. And then China had a small battle with Vietnam later. China claimed victory in 20 days without taking hostage, beat them and blablablablabla noncense........

Cambodia? Don't think so.

Malaysia Communist hahahahhahahaha. Let me tell u Malaysia Communist never been support by China side. Especially when Malaysia became the first country to be the China diplomatic friend, China never support the communist act. Mlaaysian Communist acted as an evil side becoz they were encouraged to do so in the International Communist stage.

But Vietnam war was believe provoked by Russian.

Cold war? The conflict between western + USA vs Soviet Union. Who started that officially first? Western side. The only Soviet do so (If I were not mistaken). Malaysia hate that kind of situation, so Malaysia aggresively united a group of countries and told the world that They were neutral and not supporting any side in the time.

-------------------------------------------------------

This is a joke. The Chinese have conquered and invaded neighboring countries a lot of times in the past, here is proof.

In 221BC, the Qin Dynasty of China invaded Vietnam. The Vietnamese re-gained independence in 939AD led by Ngo Quyen.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761552648_5/Vietnam.html#s97

In the 18th century, the Manchu-Qing Dynasty of China conquered Tibet.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761567065_2/Tibet.html

During the Qing Dynasty, Mongolia was ruled by China.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761565003_3/Mongolia_(country).html#s23

In 630AD, the Tang Dynasty invaded the Turks, taking their land away for westward expansion. http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761573055_9/China.html

To say that China did not do anything bad is totally false. They are just as guilty as any other nation in the world.

Today u look at it now. The China government were mainly Han Chinese. So we should be better to look at Han Chinese dynasty over the outer invasion :

Qin - no comment. Emperor Ying Zhen was a iron fist man at that time.

Tang Dynasty -- I tell what the actually situation r. I believe it's not the Turkish, but the Iranian. At that time the Iranian were not a Islamic country. And then, Islam world rised, and the Islamic soldiers conquered Iran (Persia). The king of Iran escape to Tang Dynasty and look for aid. So, Tang DYnasty,Korean and Japanese united army went to western side to fought the Islamis soldiers. As the result, the Chinese-Korean-Japanese united army lost the war becoz a soldier leader of a China inland tribe betroyed. This is not an direct invasion, but to being asked by the Iranian king to do so.

The Tang Dynasty vs Islam story were very little known by ppl now that. Historian believed that if today Tang won the war. Now the middle east could became a mandarin speaking region.


But if u consider for How many times China had been numbers. U will discover those above Invasion were to least for a World Number 1 country isn't it?

Let's see when Western world became number 1,what happen :

1. Latin american,african and asian were taken as low class people
2. Economic exploitations
3. South East Asia, South America,Africa being Colonised.
4. China in 19th century had pay TRILLIONS OF MONEY TO THE WESTERN AND JAPANESE IMPERIALIST.

Nice Number one for western side

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LOL!? What!?!?!?

So that whole communist annexing chunks of east europe was apart of "western aggression"? The whole backing Chinese communist in China was "western aggresion"? The land grab of North Korea was merely "western aggression" huh? The invasion of Afganistan must have been western aggression, too.

I would reply to the rest of the post, but that's just hilarious.

When western side seem this communism threat. They united and confront Soviet union first isn't it?

My country, Malaysia, although were quite tiny and weak. But they officially wanted to remain neutral and did not want to join any of the 2 sides. For both sides also did not have any good. So we made a new international body, which in purpose to show that there r also countries who wanted peace and hermony but not dangeorous situation like cold war.

mod edit:do not post back to back

 

[LeatherNeckRVA]

The U.S. has always been interested in stopping dictators, especially horrible men like Stalin, I think It's a shame more countries didn't ally against him during the Cold War he was a terrible person who provoked everything that was brough on him.

 

[Chocobo_Blitzer]

When western side seem this communism threat. They united and confront Soviet union first isn't it?

no kidding. After Russia forced those countries to unite with them and spread communism.

God, you're trying to penalize the west for protecting herself from communism? Logic? Okay.... whatever you say man.

 

[Ezechiel]

[God, you're trying to penalize the west for protecting herself from communism? Logic? Okay.... whatever you say man.

Protecting? I suppose it's more than provoking. It's no wrong that the western world united and protecting theirselve. But the problem is that the Western countries lead the way into a more extreme side and coz the world more dangerous. I doubt they ever handle this in a soft way.

The plan of Socialism/Communism United League had been planned by Lenin BEFORE Russian became Soviet Union. This dream had only been given and be fullfilled by Stalin only. For it's also a knowledge invented by Karl Marx in his socialism theory.

And then, one thing u must know that, China were not a member of this united league. Which means China remained as neutral and never provoke any Communism revolting cases for these decades. Since China never be such a dangerous role, why do u worry they will be dangerous if they became No.1?

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Before u say China what and what and what, why don't u guyz think about what USA did as the No.1 nowadays?

1. Iraq

2. Afghan (but Afghanistan did survive in good way now, the problem is the act of invasion were still wrong)

3. USA and western countries supported and carry up a few dictators in Middle east area -- The Saudi family in Saudi Arbia is an example, In order to get the oil there.

4. Overlooked African, in the other hand still claiming they r peaceful big brother, who coz so much chaos in middle east.

5. Few years ago, USA "indelibrately", "Carelessly" bombed the Embassy of China. This once lead the world into a dangerous condition.

6. Also few years ago. USA planes went to spy the China land in China teritory. A Chinese pilot went to stop them but they refuse to do so. And accident happen,the pilot died. And what about the spies in the plane who got caught by China? China released them all. And yet USA rufuse to apologize............

5 and 6 once the dipolomatic relationship between USA and China in a verybad condition and can simply influent the worldwide economic and politics developement.

1,2,3 and 4 Made the world dangerous in terrorism. Islam world were taken as a very evil side commonly by others.

I think it's time for u guyz to do a "HOW TO STOP USA" thread here.

 

[jackun]

:roll: why to stop china?

china is such a friendly country.

 

[AsianAmerican]

For real China is an awesome country... GOOD FOOD, GOOD GIRLS, and GOOD PEOPLE. I say let history and the future do its thing and we'll see what happens in the next decades... Just get ready to learn how to use chopsticks heheheheh J/K. :lol:

 

[Leighsong]

WOW--heated debate!

I dream of visiting China in the near future. I intend to have a glorious experience.

So much has happened throughout history, and currently, perhaps China may seem to be a threat to the western world.

As I view these threads, and learn much history that I've long forgotten, one thing seems to be common--us against them.

The Chinese did recently discover a HUGE previously unknown oil bed. Perhaps this will give them much more economic leverage in the coming years.

The west have been ignoring the Chinese economic strengthening, and even supporting it, to a large degree. I fail to see how this is a surprise to many, but I learn something new everyday

Great debate, and thanks to all for sharing very valuable, and historic relevance!

 

[Kinection]

Wow... getting flamy here.

I know I looked at my time period! Ezechiel said, HISTORY!!! History includes the Qin, Tang, and Qing Dynasties. He didn't say present day China, you did! Ezechiel said, "China for many times became World Number One", that means he was mentioning history, not PRC. Next time, do a little research before you quote others! I think your pro-Chinese.

My point is that viewing China in the future does not necessarily mean looking at it's past, before PRC time. There is no need to go on a side track here on things that don't contribute to the topic.

As for pro-Chinese, yes in some ways. Or maybe I'm just open minded, either way, I always like to see things from both sides.

The U.S. has always been interested in stopping dictators, especially horrible men like Stalin, I think It's a shame more countries didn't ally against him during the Cold War he was a terrible person who provoked everything that was brough on him.

This post was so short that I wasn't quite sure which side you are arguing against. But, I would like to point out the US has also appointed and supported many dictators.

2. Afghan (but Afghanistan did survive in good way now, the problem is the act of invasion were still wrong)

A country that harbors a terrorist on the scale of Osama Bin Ladin should be dealt with.

5. Few years ago, USA "indelibrately", "Carelessly" bombed the Embassy of China. This once lead the world into a dangerous condition.

I think this is kind of unfair, are you saying the US is deliberately doing it or that the US needs to learn to control their bombs?

The Chinese did recently discover a HUGE previously unknown oil bed. Perhaps this will give them much more economic leverage in the coming years.

linkage?

 

[USAFAUX2004]

China is not a bad country, it is actually a super power, but because of its organization and population its in a mess

 

[Ezechiel]

My point is that viewing China in the future does not necessarily mean looking at it's past, before PRC time. There is no need to go on a side track here on things that don't contribute to the topic.

As for pro-Chinese, yes in some ways. Or maybe I'm just open minded, either way, I always like to see things from both sides.

China r a peace rising power for the past decade there r 3 pooints for u to get an idea :

1. Territory Conflict between India and China in 1963 --- This problem later contributed to a small bttle between them. I did not know who did it aggresively (I read that Indian did,but some other said China did). But whe China got the victory on that, they gathered all the Indian soldiers hostage, threat them well and release them back to INdia homeland. China as well helped the INdian to repair the military equipment. Plus, China did not demanded any special thing from India side, this is the most important part. The China had been praised by the UN at that time.

2. Vietnam-China conflict after Vietnam's independence. After Vietnam claimed the independence, Soviet Union provoked them to make trouble on China (started from 60'sthe relation between China and Soviet Union went very bad). Vietnam aggresively did something bad such like getting into China territory and did something. China reacted by sending troops to fought the Vietnamese. 20 days China claimed victory. But China,once again, released all the VIetnamese soldiers back to their homeland, whitout demanding anything.

3. China never provoked any communis political revolt in neighbouring countries. Even if u said North Korea, China's purpose is to prevent US from spying the China land if they won the Korean war and establish Information centre in North Korea. Vietnam war was provoked by Soviet Union.

A country that harbors a terrorist on the scale of Osama Bin Ladin should be dealt with.

maybe. For this action had been approved by UN.

The Chinese did recently discover a HUGE previously unknown oil bed. Perhaps this will give them much more economic leverage in the coming years.
linkage?

I believe that's China East Sea area, where Japanese and Chinese were having conflict on. Didn't u guyz know that China and Japan were arguing over the Diaoyu Island for years? Whoever got the Diaoyu Island, the petroleum in east sea area would majority owned by that side. Also some said that Siberia area have a larger oil resouces than Persian Gulf., but not very sure.

On the diaoyu island issue. Japanese were being very aggresive by building station on the island. At the same time China did not really got in the conflict directly but presented speech to warned Japan not to do any terrible thing on the INternational politic stage. Isn't this peaceful enough?

 

[Big_Z]

"Also few years ago. USA planes went to spy the China land in China teritory. A Chinese pilot went to stop them but they refuse to do so. And accident happen,the pilot died. And what about the spies in the plane who got caught by China? China released them all. And yet USA rufuse to apologize............ "
Umm America has caught Chinese spies before....... They werent just flying over either.

 

[Duty Honor Country]

"Also few years ago. USA planes went to spy the China land in China teritory. A Chinese pilot went to stop them but they refuse to do so. And accident happen,the pilot died. And what about the spies in the plane who got caught by China? China released them all. And yet USA rufuse to apologize............ "
Umm America has caught Chinese spies before....... They werent just flying over either.

You are telling one side of the story Big Z while leaving out some importnant facts

US SIDE

On 1 April 0915 (local time), the EP-3 plane was on a routine surveillance mission in international airspace over the South China Sea. It was intercepted by two Chinese fighter aircraft. US Admiral Dennis Blair said such encounters were not unusual. ''They come up, take a look, report what they see and fly back. It's pretty routine,'' he said. The collision occurred 113m (70 miles) off the Chinese island of Hainan. ''One of them bumped into the wing of the EP-3 aircraft,'' Admiral Blair said. He said intercepts in recent months had become ''aggressive to the point we felt they were endangering the safety of Chinese and American aircraft''. The US lodged a protest with Chinese officials. The admiral said the EP-3 is a big plane usually flying straight and level while fighter aircraft are more nimble. ''The faster, more manoeuvrable aircraft has the obligation to stay out of the way of the slower aircraft,'' Admiral Blair said. ''It is pretty obvious who bumped into whom.'' Apparently there was no communication between Chinese and American pilots. There was sufficient damage to the American plane for the pilot to declare a mayday signal on an open international distress channel. The White House said two of four propellers were damaged as well as the nose cone, wing flaps and equipment indicating the plane's air speed. It said the plane plummeted 2,400m (8,000 feet) at one point. The pilot diverted to an airfield on Hainan Island where the plane landed 15 to 20 minutes later. The US said it was standard procedure for a damaged plane to land at the nearest airport after issuing a mayday call. The last communication from the plane was that it had landed safely and all 24 military personnel on board were uninjured. US Senator Richard Lugar, who sits on the Senate Intelligence Committee, has said that the Chinese pilot who is believed to have died, Wnag Wei, had challenged the US plane before, but this time had "exceeded his grasp". US surveillance crews are said to become quite familiar with Chinese pilots who intercept them and often photograph them.

CHINA'S SIDE

After detecting a US plane conducting surveillance off the city of Sanya, two Chinese F-8 fighter jets took off and carried out ''routine tracking'' of the aircraft. At 0907 the all the planes were flying in the same direction, 400m apart with the US plane on the right. A Defence Ministry spokesman said ''the immediate cause of the collision was the violation of flight rules by the US plane which made a sudden and big movement to veer towards the Chinese plane,'' the state news agency reported. ''The US plane's nose and left wing rammed the tail of one of the Chinese planes causing it to lose control and plunge into the sea,'' he said. The pilot parachuted from his plane and is still missing, while the other pilot landed his F-8 safely. At 0933 the US plane illegally entered Chinese territorial airspace and landed at Lingshui Airport in Hainan, the spokesman said.

The analysts

Nobody really knows how or why the mid-air collision happened. Many Western analysts, including the specialist publication Jane's Defence, argue that the two Chinese F8 fighters were dispatched to intercept the US surveillance plane and "hemmed in" the much bigger plane, in an attempt to make it change course. The slightest misjudgement by either the US or Chinese pilot could have caused the collision. They generally argue that the US plane was unlikely to veer suddenly to the left, as claimed by Beijing. It is a big and cumbersome plane that the far more nimble Chinese jets should have been able to avoid. The Washington Post newspaper has reported that US officials are saying the Chinese interceptor plane that crashed was actually flying under the US plane. The collision occurred, according to this report, after the US surveillance plane started banking. One report says that Wang Wei was killed instantly after the collision. The report claims that he ejected into one of the propellers of the US surveillance plane.

it would be wise of you to tell the facts Big Z. I followed this story very closely.
BBC SOURCE

 

[USAFAUX2004]

thats the problem with the world...we always blame the other guy

 

[A Can of Man]

But in this case, the Americans are right about the collision.
It is the nimble jet's obligation to stay clear.
I have a very hard time believing that the intel aircraft rammed a Chinese fighter jet intentionally so the Chinese plane must have gotten dangerously close.
It could have been a bad case of a Chinese fighter pilot getting killed trying to show off about his flying ability.