How do we deal with Pirate attacks?

They're increasing their attacks because they know that we folks usually leave and surrender at the first sign of hostilities. At least that's how it was back in '93 so I guess they're looking for a repeat here.
 
Hello everyone! I have been gone for a while and now I am back... Well for anyways here is my response to the question on how do we deal with the issue of the piracy:

I have long stated on here but have been dismissed by few when I said the issue of piracy cannot be resolved without looking at the root problems of the Somali conflict. Piracy and warlords thrive on instability and the lack of security forces willing enough and competent enough to tackle them.

When I said that Ethiopia and America should not have gotten rid of the Islamic Courts and by them doing so will help the piracy and warlords thrive I was dismissed, but the facts on the ground has proven me right. Now the Ethiopians have withdrawn and left Somalia worse of than when they arrive with insurgency at its peak, piracy flourishing and a worse group than the Islamic Courts (i.e. Al Shabab) vying to seize power.

Now the International community has this issue of piracy on its hands and have to dedicate resources away from other issues when the Americans and Ethiopians could have let the Islamic Courts deal with the warlords and pirates which they were doing perfectly; the Islamic Courts offered to cooperate with United States, UN, and EU. Now with the Ethiopian invasion and blatant American support you have this group called Al Shabab who is an extremist of shoot of the Islamic Courts who follow not traditional Somali Sunni but the Saudi Wahhabism and are recruiting young Somalis who are angry at the foreign invasions of Somalia to further their extreme views, even the Islamic Courts have distanced themselves from this group.

With Ethiopia & America's blatant disregard of the voice of Somali population and their overthrow of the widely back Islamic Courts now they have created a worse offshoot group who thrive at Somalis' anger at that invasion and piracy who thrive on the protection of warlords within Somalia.

One of the former Islamic Courts leaders is now the Transitional Federal Governments president Shiekh Ahmed, the bitter and disenfranchised Sheikh Aweys who was the other former co-leader of the Islamic Courts is leading the Al Shabab, angry that he lost power and now leading an extremist group and vying to re-seize power from his former moderate co-leader Sheikh Ahmed who is now the president. Now in order to win this fight against Al Shabab, the pirates and warlords the West, UN, and EU must recognize their mistake and help the new president Sheikh Ahmed and his allies within the Islamic Courts so they can clean up the situation like they did in 2006 before they were overthrown. The situation in Somalia cannot be dealt by outsiders has I have shown they must let President Sheikh Ahmed and the Islamic Courts deal with these problems and only lend assistance to them.
 
News on that front according to "Danger Room" (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/):

The Coast Guard this week issued new regulations that require U.S.-flagged commercial ships to post guards when they are passing through the pirate-infested waters of the Gulf of Aden; ship owners can now decide whether or not their guards will have guns. The Pentagon, as well, is studying the feasibility of bringing private security firms on board U.S. vessels.

Sounds like a job for Blackwater (=Xe). Only problem is, the company doesn’t seem to be in the pirate-fighting business at the moment. They’re too busy getting sued by their guns-for-hire, for racial discrimination and for false imprisionment. One of the crew members, you see, dared to speak with a reporter.

Last fall, as the piracy problem reached crisis proportions, the company then known as Blackwater stepped forward to offer its pirate-fighting services to the shipping industry. The firm announced that its 183-foot ship, the McArthur, was standing ready to provide convoy escort. The ship, a former oceanographic research vessel, was reconfigured to haul two Little Bird helicopters, rigid inflatable boats, and security team. One had to give points to founder and CEO Erik Prince points for the vision thing.

But in practice, those plans didn’t seem to work out. As Virginian-Pilot reporter Bill Sizemore reports, the McArthur’s recent cruise to the Middle East did not go smoothly, and the company is facing lawsuits from former crew members.
Click to expand...

Rattler
 
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redneck-"I guess anything would be better than what's going on in Somalia right now."

I guess the world wouldn't be in this predicament if America & its stooge Ethiopia didn't jump the gun and made the worst mistake they could have made which was overthrow the Islamic Courts. Everyone cheers lets thank America & Ethiopia that now the piracy is thriving and the whole world has to be dragged in to something that was already eradicated before they got involved in 2006-2007.
 
I hardly doubt the Islamic Courts are a solution for everyone. The Taliban brought stability to Afghanistan too, but they became hosts to Al Qaeda and look where that got everyone.
Dealing with pirates is cheaper and simpler.
 
redneck-"I hardly doubt the Islamic Courts are a solution for everyone. The Taliban brought stability to Afghanistan too, but they became hosts to Al Qaeda and look where that got everyone.
Dealing with pirates is cheaper and simpler."

You can't honestly, intellectually, and factually compare the Islamic Courts and the Taliban that is a total distortion of facts. Islamic Courts had relations with the EU, UN, Arab league and African League including many other countries before they were overthrown, they had agreed to cooperate with America, EU, and the UN. They have yet to show extremism even after they were invaded and overthrown, they have even distanced themselves from the Al Shabab, and now they have one of their own as the President of the Transitional Federal Government. So for you to compare the 2 is a total baseless propaganda. Facts on the ground disprove your arguments and accusations.

If it is so cheap to deal with pirates instead of America recognizing the mistakes they have made well then go and deal with it. I have said it before and I will say it again redneck, I will be proven right in the end as I have been before when I said it was wrong to get rid of the Islamic Courts and I ended up being right, I will say this now dealing with the pirates is not as easy and simple as you think and they can only be dealt with internally and now this I will be proven right the next time we have this argument.
 
Like I said earlier, yes you may be right.
But you also may be wrong.
I'm leaning more towards the Islamic Courts being a better alternative since apparently they weren't interested in hosting Al Qaeda and the like. Personally I'm not too sure why they were thrown out of power.
But if they were to support terrorist groups etc., pirates are easier to deal with.

I am always skeptical about these claims that groups like these can truly help the people.
There have been so many who have made the claim, only to be worse than what they replaced.
 
well redneck, you maybe right that groups have shown before they are worse than the ones they replaced but as of yet after all was done to them they have not shown any extremism but cooperation so we must not judge everyone by the actions of others but only the actions and deeds they have themselves have committed.... It is like if you was to be judge by the actions of others, not everyone is the same, but I am content you are at least trying to look outside the propaganda and your normal personal views.
 
I usually don't buy bull sh*t very easily. The ones sold by the left or the ones sold by the right. I tend to be rather conservative myself so I often end up disagreeing with the more "liberal" arguments more often than with the conservative ones.
But as a result I end up arguing against all sides.
 
New violence aggravates disaster in Somalia

A fresh wave of fighting between feuding sides has left more than thirty people dead in Somalia's Hiiran region and the northern part of the capital Mogadishu.

Forces loyal to the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC) clashed with al-Shabaab fighters on Thursday when the anti-government gunmen moved to take control of Beledweyne town in the Hiiran region, Press TV has learned.

The heavy exchanges of gunfire between the two sides left at least a dozen people killed and more than 30 injured.

Meanwhile, the sound of repeated mortar fire and exploding shells has persuaded hundreds of people in the area to leave their homes in search of a safe zone.

UIC officials claim they have killed more than 51 al-Shabaab fighters and injured some 40 others, but the figure cannot be independently confirmed.

Elsewhere, some 40 soldiers and gunmen died when heavy fighting broke out between al-Shabaab fighters and government troops between the Sanca and Afarta Darjino districts in the north of Mogadishu.

The hours-long fighting also left 80 civilians wounded and the ensuing exchanges of mortar fire caused serious damage to residential areas near the conflict zone.

Schools and businesses remain closed in northern Mogadishu, where eight days of bloody conflict between armed rebels and soldiers loyal to President Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed have claimed more than 230 lives.

The clashes come as part of a push by the transitional government in Somalia to take control of a number of streets and buildings in Mogadishu.

Local fighters in capital have been deployed around the presidential office with their leader, Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys, calling on the president to step down.

Since assuming control of the country's affairs, the president has embraced diplomacy and believes he can bring fighting factions together and establish calm.

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=94726&sectionid=351020501
 
Exactly what I said, the same Union of Islamic Courts that were overthrown now has one of their own as President of the Transitional Government and they are helping the government get rid of Al Shabab the extremist of shoot of the Islamic Courts who came into existence after the Ethiopian-American invasion. Now the government and the Islamic Courts are cleaning up the mess the Americans and Ethiopians made and rooting out the Al Shabab which used the bitterness of the American supported Ethiopian invasion to come into existence, recruit and garner support... The moral of this story, never judge a book by its cover and label someone as was done to the Islamic Courts, but judge them by their actions and deeds.
 
So all your rambling about the UIC and their interanl fights in a failed nation, That's been a failed nation since at least the late 80's has what to do with protecting merchant vessels from pirates?
 
03USMC-"So all your rambling about the UIC and their interanl fights in a failed nation, That's been a failed nation since at least the late 80's has what to do with protecting merchant vessels from pirates?"

First of all it has everything to do with protecting merchant vessels, your statement proves to me that you weren't able to comprehend what I was getting at.

Follow what I am saying carefully so you can understand, this is why I keep mentioning the Islamic Courts when people talk about the piracy issue, when the Islamic Courts were in power not one ship was hijacked of the coast of Somalia, they seized all shore bases of the pirates, arrested all pirates and executed those charged with murder, they rounded up all the warlords that provided shore protection to them and those warlords they didn't capture escaped to Ethiopia. The Islamic Courts used strong arm tactics and severe punishment to deter the pirates, which was so effective, that is why I say it was wrong to get rid of them now look at the problem you have on your hands. I said it it before if the Courts were overthrown what will happen in the aftermath and now I am proven right by the facts on the ground, it has happened like I said it would.

I'm going to break it down for you, the Islamic Courts were moderates that were effective in controlling and stabilizing the country and they have been very cooperative, now the warlords and this extremist group called Al Shabab have launched an insurgency and are cooperating with the pirates.

Do you want to know why Al Shabab is successful at recruiting so many men because many Somalis are disenfranchised and bitter about the invasion of their country, now Al Shabab wouldn't have such an apeal if this Ethiopian invasion supported by America never occurred. They recruit young disenfranchised Somali men and pay Soviet-British-Italian trained former Somali National Army Officers and Generals to lead them.

Do you want to undercut and defeat this insurgency and piracy? Now this is the best way to do it:
1) Help fund and train a National army its certainly cheaper than keeping several dozens of warships around the clock of Somali waters 365 days a year.
2) Appeal to these former Somali Officers and Generals who are selling their expertise to the highest bidder as military men to rejoin the National Army; thus, denying the insurgency a crucial tool and expertise.
3) The government and the Islamic Courts have reconciled and the West needs to support this reconciliation so the Islamic Courts can continue to throw their weight behind the UN backed Transitional Government and help defeat the pirates and warlords.
4) Provide support to the the African Union troops supporting the government as far as logistics and funds so they can bolster the new government to stand on its feet.
5) The UN and the international community needs to step in and create laws against illegal waste dumping by foreign companies on Somali shores and illegal foreign fisheries; thus, undercutting a major appeal of the piracy amongst Somali civilians which is that our waters are violated so why should we not violate foreign shipping.

Also 1 correction on what you stated above "that's been a failed nation since at least the late 80's": Somali civil war began in 1991, before then you have never heard of a Somali civil war or any kind of civil strife in Somali up until 1991, Somalia was a functioning and peaceful country. The Somali Civil war coincided with the time frame of the break up of the Soviet Union and the defeat of Iraq in the Persian Gulf war.
 
So once again you are back to pumping up and pimping for the UIC and wanting the whole world to pump money and aid into a failed state.

I think that I can see where this is going and IMO the entire "nation" should ethier A. Be written off as unsalvagable cordoned off and be left to last clan standing after they butcher the rest of the opposition.

Or B. Join the 21st Century, stop all the 1st Century jackazzry and learn to work together and create a nation, and stop thinking that the world owes them something, to include the right to piracy.

As far as aid and money. You might as well throw it in an abyss, until the people decide to end the silly ass clan factional warfare, because it's been tried before and accomplished nothing.
 
03USMC-"So once again you are back to pumping up and pimping for the UIC and wanting the whole world to pump money and aid into a failed state.

I think that I can see where this is going and IMO the entire "nation" should ethier A. Be written off as unsalvagable cordoned off and be left to last clan standing after they butcher the rest of the opposition.

Or B. Join the 21st Century, stop all the 1st Century jackazzry and learn to work together and create a nation, and stop thinking that the world owes them something, to include the right to piracy.

As far as aid and money. You might as well throw it in an abyss, until the people decide to end the silly ass clan factional warfare, because it's been tried before and accomplished nothing."

Listen at least if you are going to intellectually debate cut out the insults such as " So once again you are back to pumping up and pimping for the UIC"

You know how the saying goes "Don't do any harm if you can't do any good" well that applies to this situation, if you want Somalia to sort out their own problems and have a stable government and not ask help from the international community then why did America have Ethiopia overthrow the UIC right when Somalia was getting stabilized?

Its funny how the American government and the Ethiopian government were the cause of the reigniting the Somali civil war, but yet you blatantly choose to ignore the facts and act ignorantly by judging Somalia as if foreigners such as America and Ethiopia weren't part of the problem.

Fine if you want us to sort out our problems don't come and overthrow those that the Somali people have empowered to clean up the problem (i.e. the UIC).

We don't want the world to owe us anything if they aren't going to help then just leave us alone and don't come in and overthrow those that are stabilizing and running the country its simple, you can't have your cake and eat it too, you can't have it both ways. Their are 2 choices:
1) Let us run our affairs and straighten our house out as we see fit or
2) If you are going to bud in then at least stay around till you correct the problem completely.
 
Oh I don't know why did the Courts lay claim to Ethiopian Territory and threaten to assert their claims, yet expect it not to taken seriously by Ethiopia? You can only play the perpetual victim for so long.
 
03USMC-"Oh I don't know why did the Courts lay claim to Ethiopian Territory and threaten to assert their claims, yet expect it not to taken seriously by Ethiopia? You can only play the perpetual victim for so long."

You are opening a whole can of worms about asserting claim to Ethiopian territory that had nothing to do with the UIC, this issue precedded the UIC let me clarify for a second something, Somalia originally was comprimised into 5 parts
1) Italian Somaliland
2) British Somaliland
3) French Somaliand (present day Djibouti)
4) The Ogaden region currently occupied by Ethiopia
5) The NFD (National Frontier District) currently Occupied by Kenya

When Somalia became independent in 1960 the present day Somali state became compromised of Italian Somaliland and British Somaliland. The French decided to hold on to their Somali territory and instead granted it a French supervised independence sort of similar to what happened in Pakistan and India when the British left so French Somaliland became Djibouti. The British granted the Ogaden region to the Ethiopian monarchy of then Emperor Haile Selassie who was a British ally during ww2 as a gift and the British granted the NFD as a gift to their Kenyan ally who belongs in the British commonwealth.

This Ethiopian territory you speak of is called the Ogaden and it is settled by over 5 million Somali inhabitants, it is historically a Somali territory given away by the British. Somalia and Ethiopia fought several major wars over this region and the UIC had done nothing other than say that this is Somali territory they neither invaded Ethiopia nor caused in insurrection/insurgency in the Ogaden; Therefore, Ethiopia had no right to overthrow the UIC.

Now don't try and speak of a situation you know nothing of I know about this a great deal more than you do and can easily educate you in it. The UIC had in no way deserved the overthrow as you try to paint it and throw dirt, please take you agenda and your propaganda somewhere else for someone who is less educated about the situation because you can't bring that balony to me.
 
News Flash. Historically means exactly JACK SH*T in terms of territory. Territory is held by those who control and who can defend it or who can take it. Historically the US Southwest is Mexican Territory but who controls it is a different matter.


So your "Historically" arguement has no merit.

Educate me. WTF EVER. Been there seen it it's FUBAR.
 
You are diverting the subject from its original topic, but im say this.... The US southwest was Mexican formerly but no longer because Mexico lost it fair and square against the US, but the Ogaden can never be Ethiopian and will forever stay Somali because Ethiopia didn't take it from us fair and square as the US has done to Mexico but rather was rewarded to them by Somalia's colonial power Britain before Somalia was a nation and can even have a say or fight for it. And also another problem with your premise, the Ogaden region is inhabited by Somalis; therefore, it legitimizes our claim even more. Is the US southwest currently inhabited exclusively by Mexicans? No! Does the US southwest currently want to rejoin Mexico? No! But the Ogaden wants to rejoin Somalia. So your comparison is not even remotely similar in circumstances. Also please stop the diversion because I have already disproved your whole propaganda that the UIC had to be overthrown because the laid claim to the Ogaden, when this whole Ogaden issue preceded before anyone ever dreamed about the UIC or the Somali civil war.
 
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