Could Germany have defeated the US?

[Mark Conley]

well..my money would be on the germans defeating the US.

Its because of that potential 5th collum guys...since hitler doesnt have to worry about what hes going to do..hes going to take his time..get the bundist movement to upgrade their activitys...prepare the liners...and send the u-boats after our navy, to kinda whittle it down.

after waiting a few months, hes going to land the majority of his forces in mexico. striking at sparse middle of the US, hes going to secure his lines of march and strike west first. This at the time was very underdeveloped. hed be sure to take on and defeat the hub cities of san francisco and las angeles. once he had secured the west coast...he wait again..using force along the rockies to hold what he had...until more reinforcements came to the west coast and through mexico.

meanwhile...the bundists have been stiring up political trouble..and a little sabotage. war plants mysteriously burn down. certain leaders are assasinated. men taken into the armed forces creat problem there. Yes, there is a problem. The germans have the southwest. they have taken a tenth of the population hostage. using the hostages, they have planted them around their vital military areas: hit a site, kill some americans.

From here, its a stalmate. as long as the germans hold the passes and the west coast, they have a chance.

id say that after about a 3 year wait..the germans will be strong enough to push into the gulf reigon...go up the mississippi valley, and finally secure the great lakes reigon.

no 2/3s of the country is gone...the breadbasket and the ore used for industry are now in the germans hands.

maybee at this point...the americans might quit and surrender...i dont know.

ill have to think the rest of the scenario out tomorrow...

 

[Guy100]

If it would been Germany vs USA only (with no help from UK, USSR, Japan) Then i think that germany would win after a log blody battle.
Well lets put it in this way:
If Germany lands troops on USA soil=Germany wins
If american navy beats Germany navy=USA wins
Germany had the best techology in ww2 and a very, very large army.

 

[BmrSooner451]

one thing you are forgetting is that the German army wasn't, and couldnt be big enough to occupy the USA. And if you can't occupy, you cant win. ANd remember this, During WWI, when a German Captain was informed that the USA had entered the war against the Triple Alliance, he stated something like "I dont like the idea of fighting a country where a household can have more rifles than a german infantry platoon"

 

[Guy100]

one thing you are forgetting is that the German army wasn't, and couldnt be big enough to occupy the USA. And if you can't occupy, you cant win. ANd remember this, During WWI, when a German Captain was informed that the USA had entered the war against the Triple Alliance, he stated something like "I dont like the idea of fighting a country where a household can have more rifles than a german infantry platoon"

Germany managed to capture almost all of europe, and thats pretty much the size of the USA.
And germany had better techology.
It also depence on moral.

 

[Mark Conley]

what most people are forggetting about the american people and WWII

1. Most people supported a non-involvment with the war in europe: it was the europeans problem, let them solve it was the general concensus. It wasnt until after pearl harbor, and the axis tripact finally declared war on the US, that the nations people were finally galvanised enough to get up, get a gun, and prepare to cross the oceans to fight the japanese and the germans.

2, although we became the arsenal of democracy for just about everything, at first we didnt have anything. Heavy tanks were almost unknown in the US: most went to the british through canada. Bombers, fighter, and transports didnt exist in a large quantity. we simply hadnt built them yet, because the catalyst of pearl harbor hadnt occoured.

3. The main defensive drive in the US was defence through coastal forts along the seacoasts. they essentially did away with the net work after wwii, but a lot of the older forts had up to 14 inch disapearing rifles and 10 inch mortars guarding the harbors and such.

4. the population of the midwestern states was mostly farmers, and they were just recovering from one of the worst droughts in the nations history. The midwest was almost barren in some places. the population was in the areas conducive to life as they knew it, which was on the east and west coasts. and the least defended coast was the west coast.

5. Relations with mexico were extremely poor: and yes, arrasngement for any amount of money could have insured the sucess of a german landing group.

6. What most people cant believe was just how many liners and cruise ships the germans had for troop transport. the germans were big on their entertainment: i know that one of the british's primary targets was to sink and bottleneck in bremmerhaven as much of the german sea assets as possible, to keep it from being used in WWII.

7. The germans had very good surface raiders that pounced on merchant ships. If the british hadnt sent their assets after them early in the war, theres no telling what the outcome would have been on american shipping, before we ramped up to replace the losses in the battle of the atlantic with the submarines.

8. Theres one historical item being left out that was the most cruical factor in the war: radar. The british developed radar during the early days of WWII: it was the americans that mass produced it, and installed iit in everything from ships to planes. But without the brits, you simply didnt have someone to develope, test, and prove its effectivness.

Britain was the key pin that kept the germans from taking advantage of the US weaknesses, until we were properly motivated to come out swinging. without britain, im sure it would have been a long, bloody road for the US. and if the USSR and japan were feeling froggy, im sure they could have jumped our tailends with them.

I am immently grateful that Britain gave us a chance to get our head out of the sand, and into the conflict to win.

 

[Uncle_Sam]

My 50 cents:

America had the biggest Navy, so it would be tough one for Germans.
Guy 100 said that if Germany landed on USA's soil we would loose, hard one without air support Germany didn't have a single aircraft carrier in WWII, even if it was making one. Neither did USSR. So they would be totally left without airsupport, easy prey for American Eagles.
So USAAF would anihilate Nazis before reaching the shore(without airsupport you are no one) Maby only Japs could give some assistance in the air, though their planes were just too slow, and I'm pretty sure that USN would have everything under control.
Now if England was lost before we could interfere... Probably whole mighty British Navy, would come to our side not surrendering to the Gerries, we would be really mighty on the sea!
Probably Germans would bomb London with an A-bomb, Britain would capitulate, and Soviets would crap in their pants and surrender, beeing Germany's favourite client nation.
We would sink Japan with Nukes, so they can't count on Japan any more.
Germans would rally in the Europe like an angry bull in a Texas Rodeo.
Bloody battles would be faught first in Africa, 'cause it would be the easiest way for us to bomb Germany(Britain is gone).
We would probably ask for help from other American nations, at least in men.
Unrivaled at sea and air, mabe we would force Germany to some sort of surrender.
We were ahead with jet weapons, Yes it's hard to believe, but I watched a few days ago on discovery, that Lockheed was the firs to develope Jet aircraft for the USN, in early 30's. Though they scrapped the project thinking that there was no threat.
And so..........................................

 

[Damien435]

Little known fact, Germany had one aircraft carrier in WWII, and as for this whole German Army larger than US Army, well yes, that was true, in 1940! We had the 16th largest Army heading into WWII, at the end we had the world's largest. (I think, I may be wrong, since it was 10 dead Russians for every dead German I may be wrong about the numbers post WWII.) And as you mentioned earlier, we had none of the equipment key to winning the war, we developed them during the war. Hell, the German technolgy really wasn't that great, they just kept building everything bigger than before, not that hard, but however their rockets and jets were far better than what we had, but a super charged P-51 could still keep up in a dogfight.

 

[GuyontheRight]

Hitler was developing Jets that could bomb New York and come back, In fact our B2s are based on their design.

 

[Damien435]

Hitler was developing Jets that could bomb New York and come back, In fact our B2s are based on their design.

But they lacked the materials to produce them, which was a problem for the Germans all through the war, once the allied bombings started Switzerland was not able to supply all the goods Germany needed, oops, we are not supposed to know about that.

 

[GuyontheRight]

Yes but if there was never a war with the USSR, this technology probobly would of been pushed ahead because it was more relavant.

 

[Damien435]

Its because of that potential 5th collum guys...since hitler doesnt have to worry about what hes going to do..hes going to take his time..get the bundist movement to upgrade their activitys...prepare the liners...and send the u-boats after our navy, to kinda whittle it down.

Hitler, take his time, yeah right, his Generals guaranteed him that if he waited 6 months they could win the war, and that could very well be true, but Hitler was impatient, he started the war before Germany was ready and Germany was ultimately overwhelmed. If he was successful after jumping the gun by six months he probably would have done the same thing against America, and we probably would have broken the German naval code because many of Britain's top spies and intelliegence officers, realising that Britain was doomed, probably would have dfected to the US.

 

[GuyontheRight]

The Nazi's who operated in America were a joke. They would have been insiginificant in this scenario. Once the homland was attacked, these people would have defended there home.

 

[Damien435]

The Nazi's who operated in America were a joke. They would have been insiginificant in this scenario. Once the homland was attacked, these people would have defended there home.

Where did that come from?

I did see something on History Channel about that though, their are now like 1 million Nazi's in America, and their numbers are growing, I think that is the number.

 

[GuyontheRight]

Were did that come from? It came from the fact that many of these so called "Nazi's" were first and foremost Americans who saluted the flag just as much they did the Swastika, if not more.

1 million, do you mean now or then? I couldn't belive we have that many now. That number is probably inflated with non-Nazi but Fascist sympathizing militia groups, etc...

 

[Damien435]

Were did that come from? It came from the fact that many of these so called "Nazi's" were first and foremost Americans who saluted the flag just as much they did the Swastika, if not more.

Yes I know that, but seemingly out of nowhere you brought up that fact, why?

 

[GuyontheRight]

I thought somone earlier brought up a point about Nazi's in the US helping the German military. Just wanted to establish that thats kinda absurd.

 

[Damien435]

I thought somone earlier brought up a point about Nazi's in the US helping the German military. Just wanted to establish that thats kinda absurd.

Oh, yeah, Hitler and the leader of the American Nazi Party met, Hitler didn't like him, but the Leader of the ANP came back and said Hitler appointed him as head of the ANP.

 

[SLR owner]

There is NO way that Germany could have defeated the US in WW2 , and it has less to do with military capability and more to do with productive capacity. We could outproduce Germany on a minimum 5 to 1 basis in tanks alone.

 

[Damien435]

There is NO way that Germany could have defeated the US in WW2 , and it has less to do with military capability and more to do with productive capacity. We could outproduce Germany on a minimum 5 to 1 basis in tanks alone.

It is a good thing to because that is that rate that we were losing tanks to Germany, I think that is it, all I know is that the Sherman was a terrible tank that was only good for A.) Mass Production and B.) Crossing open plains at a fast rate. It was not good for A.) Fighting other tanks or B.) Protecting the crew from a German AP round. They were death boxes. They could clear a German machine gun nest quite well but not much more.

 

[Young Winston]

well..my money would be on the germans defeating the US.

Its because of that potential 5th collum guys...since hitler doesnt have to worry about what hes going to do..hes going to take his time..get the bundist movement to upgrade their activitys...prepare the liners...and send the u-boats after our navy, to kinda whittle it down.

after waiting a few months, hes going to land the majority of his forces in mexico. striking at sparse middle of the US, hes going to secure his lines of march and strike west first. This at the time was very underdeveloped. hed be sure to take on and defeat the hub cities of san francisco and las angeles. once he had secured the west coast...he wait again..using force along the rockies to hold what he had...until more reinforcements came to the west coast and through mexico.



meanwhile...the bundists have been stiring up political trouble..and a little sabotage. war plants mysteriously burn down. certain leaders are assasinated. men taken into the armed forces creat problem there. Yes, there is a problem. The germans have the southwest. they have taken a tenth of the population hostage. using the hostages, they have planted them around their vital military areas: hit a site, kill some americans.

From here, its a stalmate. as long as the germans hold the passes and the west coast, they have a chance.

id say that after about a 3 year wait..the germans will be strong enough to push into the gulf reigon...go up the mississippi valley, and finally secure the great lakes reigon.

no 2/3s of the country is gone...the breadbasket and the ore used for industry are now in the germans hands.

maybee at this point...the americans might quit and surrender...i dont know.

ill have to think the rest of the scenario out tomorrow...

Thats one long supply line the Germans have here Mark!