Can S.Korea handle N.Korea alone?

Re: hmmm....

There is no movie about those 13 guys... quite frankly I don't think it can be made into a movie.
"But what if the attrition build up over times? Do SK civilian have the tenacities to defend SK? Democracy can soften people with its good living tho"
This paragraph tells you how little you know about South Koreans. Absolutely fiercely patriotic and at times, almost to the point of fascism. South Korea isn't as adverse to casualties as you may think when the fight is at home. If war breaks out, every abled body guy and even some who aren't will be lining up to fight.

There is a SK movie about the Korean war though. Called Tae Guk Gi. it is being shown in select theaters in America.

Boobies said:
I think initially the South Koreans will win becasue of the technical advancement. But what if the attrition build up over times? Do SK civilian have the tenacities to defend SK? Democracy can soften people with its good living tho.

Alos, how 13 guys killed 400 VCs? I mean not 400 soldiers ran out of ammos at once and start fist to fist against the SK soldiers. Is this unit named Tiger Unit that mentioned mcuh in the U.S.?

Did SK make a movie of it? Does the movie have subtitle? I love to see it.

Here is a link to discuss about the 13 SK Soldiers story in vietname.

http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/74-572.asp
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Damien435 said:
North Korea is not based on Chinese Communism, it was built by the Soviets. The Chinese and Soviets never got along that well, Mao always wanted more supplies from the Soviet Union and Stalin was not very trusting of anyone. It was the collapse of the Soviet Union that doomed the North Korean economy, which was very heavily dependent on aid from the USSR.

And once again, Kim Jong Il is crazy, not like "Woah, did you see what that guy did? He is crazy man!" but like clinically insane. Look at what he has done to the country, he made them into basically a cult, worse than the Nazi's.
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North Koreans have their own ideology called Juche. It is their form of Communism.


Boobies said:
Like Damien said, Korean and Chinese communism are different. Chinese never really liked the Soviet system because it was very rigid and focused on urban area when most area belonged to rural.

So, Mao replaced the Soviet model with his during the Famous Long March.

At this time, I don't think China is a big ally of N.K. because of the change in economic status and eventual political reforms.

I think N.K. leader should really thinking of economic reform and the well-being of its people. Feed them first.

However, I am wondering why the U.S. wont sign an agreement of carrying out pre-em strike with the N.K.? If the agreement can help N.K. to soften up its stands, why not?

N.K. is really alone on this issue.
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I think China sees NK as more of a neccessary thing rather than a friend, ally or anything like that.
They want a buffer zone between them and American troops. Or even with South Korea.
 
A long war will favor the South Koreans, if the North Koreans can somehow take the whole of South Korea in a matter of weeks they would have a chance.
 
In a long war... well even in a short war, the North Koreans will run out of fuel really quick.
Their regular army will probably be crushed rather quickly.
The SF teams will have to continue fighting with zero support and supplies only they can capture.
Basically the longer the war goes, the worse off the North Koreans will be.
That goes with most countries that adopted the East Block doctrine of fighting. Even in Europe, if the Soviets were to win, they'd have to do it quick because they relied on shock, numbers and speed.
Look at Soviet Equipment. They're designed to be built in mass numbers and aren't designed to match the western counterparts 1 on 1. They will get slaughtered like crazy in any engagement but hope the mass will give them victory.
If a Soviet-military-doctrined army's thrust is delayed or halted, then they are, for a lack of a better word, screwed.

Damien435 said:
A long war will favor the South Koreans, if the North Koreans can somehow take the whole of South Korea in a matter of weeks they would have a chance.
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Have you guys seen the Korean movie called "J.S.A" (Joint Security Area.... Referring to the 34th parallel that seperates N. Korea and S. Korea... ) This movie is guranteed to make you cry.....

If you guys havent, I suggest you do.... Find one with ENglish subtitles and such. It's really good and it explains alot of stuff

Theres a couple of stuff in the movie thats actually true... They dont like to admit it, but some of the lowly ranking troops guarding the border secretly meet up and trade ciggarettes and cookies. (yes cookies... cookies is a big thing in Korea) N. Korea and S. Korea arent at each other throats or anything...

I dont wanna be an "anti-american" sounding guy or anything, but I feel like America is making the peace talks worse. I think that the talking should be left to the S. Koreans and the N. Koreans... But thats not to say that the 30 somewhat thousand troops should be withdrawn...

If any of you guys go to Korea (especially in your uniform), youll experience a little hostility towards you.. Koreans somewhat developed a little hostility after the american tank running over a korean girl incident...
 
I watched JSA a long time ago.
Yes, the meeting up and stuff is based on actual events. It's just "rumours" because no one wants to admit it or else they'd get heavily punished.
It usually happens out of sheer boredom and curiousity.
Actually the worst damage done to the North-South Korea relations was by the previous South Korean president Kim Dae-jung. His sunshine policy put North Korea in the driving seat in every negotiation and essntially making South Korea its b****.
Relations between North and South Korea aren't always good. In 2002, the North Koreans attacked South Korean navy ships and killed a few people because they were jealous of South Korea's success in the 2002 World Cup and wanted to crash the party. Obviously it left everyone concerned about war. South Korean navy ships fought back and sank every last one of the f***ers.

I think North Korea wants to talk just to the US, demanding the impossible and making the talks a failure so that the South Koreans believe the US is just making things worse. They're kind of like that.

Btw I'm South Korean.
 
The biggest underlying problem is the North Korean government, no matter how you slice it. The fact that the United States is of the opinion that Kim Jun Il is probably crazy enough to lauch a nuclear weapon ... well, that's between the US and North Korea truthfully. It does not reflect upon the opinions or feelings of the people of South Korea.

The North loves to make excuses for themselves. Everyone in Korea wants reunification. P'yongyang needs to drop their ridiculous need to forcibly unite the penninsula under a Communist regime - a system that has been proven to not work. You can't blame the United States for this. The United States has never stood in the way of peaceful reunification. They HAVE stood in the way of North Korea lauching a bloody invasion of South Korea, but why is that such a bad thing? Germany reunited when the failed system stepped aside and allowed for elections from both halves to decide things. P'yongyang needs to do the same thing, but they know they'd lose so they won't.

South Koreans can believe that we are to blame if they want, but its a load of crap. Still, if our presence is no longer wanted, they have only to ask us to leave.
 
What's with the sudden attack?
First of all, it's our country so we get the final say. And American troops aren't neccessary in the defense against North Korea. They are, however, neccessary in keeping the Chinese at bay.

Personally I don't think North Korea will start a war. Not because of generosity, but simply because the top leaders want to stay in power and they know by going to war, they will lose it.
Kim Jong-il may be crazy enough to launch a nuke, but I think there are powerful people who want to save their own skins and will probably try to stop him. Now if the nuke launches, we'll know they were unsuccessful.
But of course by then, the whole "brotherhood" idea would have vaporized along with a heck of a lot of people.

It's of course no secret North Korea's to blame for practically all the crap that's happened.
Actually the South Korean fault is the damn sunshine policy and the idealistic, and highly retarded college students that are into the crazy belief of Kim Jong-il being a reasonable guy (and I'm sure China's had its role in this misinformation operation as well).

And in terms of asking America to leave, a lot of people have done that. They're really stupid though. They don't see beyond North Korea and blow up a manslaughter incident as a full blown murder thing. On that incident though it was a huge mistake to let the guys who ran over the girls go free. Gives the whole country the message, "To us, you guys aren't even people." And great timing too. Happened in 2002 when Nationalistic fevor was at its highest due to the World Cup.

But whatever, the truth will be revealed when the North Korean government falls. And South Koreans will realize how badly they've been misled. If Kim Dae-jung is still alive then, hopefully he can join his sons in jail.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
What's with the sudden attack?
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Somebody attacked somebody else?? I'm confused now.
First of all, it's our country so we get the final say.
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Right, exactly what I said. Currently, the government of South Korea is asking us to stay and I assume they have their reasons. If they asked us to leave, we'd leave. Pretty simple really. The people of South Korea, if they have a problem with US troops, need to ask their government to change that policy, etc.
 
13th Chon Nom. hehe
I'm not in yet. I'm almost done with studying here at the GWU and I'll be heading over in December... then get my physical and I hope hope hope hope I get into a combat unit.
I would have liked to have joined the Marines but I've had a few injuries and a lousy time here so I don't think I'm good enough anymore. When I was 18 I would have made it I think. Ahh well that's what I get for listening to my dad.
I never liked boats anyway... maybe I'll join the Airborne instead.

So are you a Korean citizen or a US citizen?
 
the_13th_redneck said:
13th Chon Nom. hehe
I'm not in yet. I'm almost done with studying here at the GWU and I'll be heading over in December... then get my physical and I hope hope hope hope I get into a combat unit.
I would have liked to have joined the Marines but I've had a few injuries and a lousy time here so I don't think I'm good enough anymore. When I was 18 I would have made it I think. Ahh well that's what I get for listening to my dad.
I never liked boats anyway... maybe I'll join the Airborne instead.

So are you a Korean citizen or a US citizen?
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Im a A.K... AMerican born Korean... hehe... only been to Korea once, but parents forced me to learn Korean... so i know it pretty well.... im in the Marines right now... signed the contract, toook the physical, etc... Going to San DIego for BT this Janurary or Feb. so where u deciding to go? GWU? Wheres that at?
 
I have two Korean Cousins, they are both learning Korean now and the older one is like a 27th degree black belt, she was just messing around once with one of her friends and she snapped her wrist like a twig, I don't fight with her anymore.
 
Yes, that would be very intresting and relevant. May I suggest the following main points:

Size and structure

Doctorine

Hardware

Also could you tellme about ROK resreves(weapons, training, age, etc....)?
 
GWU is in Washington DC.
Not sure what I'll do in the military. I can choose what branch, though Marines is hard as hell to get into apparently, more so than the US one because the mission is totally different. They're really a special operations force.
So probably Army.
Don't want to be a paper pusher or the General's personal b****.

drunkentyger said:
Im a A.K... AMerican born Korean... hehe... only been to Korea once, but parents forced me to learn Korean... so i know it pretty well.... im in the Marines right now... signed the contract, toook the physical, etc... Going to San DIego for BT this Janurary or Feb. so where u deciding to go? GWU? Wheres that at?
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Damien435 said:
I have two Korean Cousins, they are both learning Korean now and the older one is like a 27th degree black belt, she was just messing around once with one of her friends and she snapped her wrist like a twig, I don't fight with her anymore.
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That's not very nice of her. 27th degree. Nuts. How old is she? I've been at 3 different martial arts... actualy 4 but I've forgotten Capoeira. But anyways... it makes me very reluctant to do anything overly physical because I'm afraid I'll accidently waste them. This is usually the case because I'm small and they think it's going to be piss easy, then are frustrated that they're not beating me, it escallates and then...
 
Here's a little lowdown on the South Korean military.
Sources include CIA Factbook, http://mcel.pacificu.edu/as/students/korea/military-south.html http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ks/Military http://www.scramble.nl/kr.htm for authority.

Army:
50 Divisions spread across 3 Army groups. Standing Army is 560,000 soldiers which makes South Korea's Army the 3rd largest Army in the world.
2,200 Tanks, 4,850 Arty pieces, 2,200 other Armored vehicles.

1st ROKA and 3rd ROKA defend the area between the DMZ and roughly down to the Seoul area. First is on the West, 3rd is on the East. 2nd takes care of the rest of the country and the reserves fall under the command of the 2nd since it is inland where reserves will assamble.
Capital Defense Command is in charge of securing the President's House and the major airports.
Special Operations Command is independent.

South Korea's Air Force boasts 500 combat aircraft that include F-16s (9 Sqns), F-4s (6 Sqns), F-5s (14 Sqns) and one squadron of F-15Ks is set to be created next year.
Where quality is needed, the F-16s and F-15s will step in, while where numbers are needed, such as close air support, the F-5s can step in. Also the South Korean air force has a few A-38 Dragonfly squadrons for air strike roles.
In Air to air, the F-5 can still match the MiG-21s and MiG-23s so it's still useful.

Regarding reserves. Anyone between 18 and 40 can be called up for reserve duty. This happens once a year... for what duration I cannot remember. Obviously all of them have military experience for 2 years. The RoK Army has 1.1 Million reserves alone so during the event of war, South Korea's Army can balloon to 1.6 Million men. There are about 60,000 Marine reserves.
 
So South Korea has a larger army than North Korea? I had no idea. Still, the number would still be less than Russia and India I believe, so I'm not sure of the "3rd Largest" part. If memory serves, Russia and India both have standing army of 1 million plus.

Why so few aircraft I wonder in South Korean Armed Forces? Looks solid on tanks and SK has a very solid tank design too. Are they planning to buy JSF's?

Thanks for the info!
 
If the info supplied by 13redneck is generally correct, then the S.K army is not that superior to N.K's at all, then it makes me more sure that N.K will conquer SK without too much difficulty.

SK 3th largest?
Counting numbers:

1. China 2,810,000 ---- Frog says: only 2 million
2. Russia 1,520,000
3. United States 1,366,000
4. India 1,303,000
5. Korea, South 683,000
6. Pakistan 612,000
7. Turkey 610,000
8. Iran 513,000
9. Vietnam 484,000
10. Egypt 448,000

N.Korea not in the list, don't know why, but NK has over 1 million troops.
 
Yep. N. Korea has 900000-1 million troops...Still though, I dont get you Flyingfrog...The numerical advantage will be lost once the ROK reserves are mobilized...The hardware advantage is with the South, and aside from 100000 SOF troops, the north koreans lack training....Why would they win?
 
3rd largest ARMY, excluding Navy, Marines, Air Force etc. I said Army didn't I?
And yes, North Korea has over a million standing troops, but of course that means smaller reserves. Also it's not like they're well trained except for the Special Operations force.
In terms of Army size, North Korea boasts the 2nd according to that website source www.nationmaster.com.
So what part of my information doesn't convince you that South Korea's military isn't better? Are you just looking at the numbers? Because if so, that shows you how LITTLE you know about the military.

FlyingFrog said:
If the info supplied by 13redneck is generally correct, then the S.K army is not that superior to N.K's at all, then it makes me more sure that N.K will conquer SK without too much difficulty.

SK 3th largest?
Counting numbers:

1. China 2,810,000 ---- Frog says: only 2 million
2. Russia 1,520,000
3. United States 1,366,000
4. India 1,303,000
5. Korea, South 683,000
6. Pakistan 612,000
7. Turkey 610,000
8. Iran 513,000
9. Vietnam 484,000
10. Egypt 448,000

N.Korea not in the list, don't know why, but NK has over 1 million troops.
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Hmmm... well now that I think of it I'm not sure why that website www.nationmaster.com said South Korea had the 3rd largest. It might be 3rd Largest in Asia. If so then my mistake and apologies! I was totally taken by surprise when that came up anyway.
I would have thought the top 3 in terms of quantity would be Russia, India and China.
I think the low number of combat aircraft in South Korea is really a matter of funding. South Korea NEEDS a strong ground Army. It's not like the US or the UK where the Army can be of a decent number but the main job of blowing things up lands to the SF and Air Forces (including Naval and Marine air arms). There's only so much money to go around and priority is Army.
No plans on the JSFs... right now Korea needs a mix of quality and quantity that they can afford. The F-15K allows for that... and to keep the Americans happy. Plus it's never been offered. Plus the old enemy again: too expensive.

godofthunder9010 said:
So South Korea has a larger army than North Korea? I had no idea. Still, the number would still be less than Russia and India I believe, so I'm not sure of the "3rd Largest" part. If memory serves, Russia and India both have standing army of 1 million plus.

Why so few aircraft I wonder in South Korean Armed Forces? Looks solid on tanks and SK has a very solid tank design too. Are they planning to buy JSF's?

Thanks for the info!
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