Bombs Away

tetvet said:
I was a door gunner with the 116th ahc ( assault helicopter company ) call sign Hornets I flew on Hornet 32 based at ( NOT AROUND ) Cu Chi , we operated in the Iron Triangle and War Zone C . The VN war was lost because one participant knew how to fight a war and the other knew how to win a war .
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I assume you mean we the US won in combat but they the NV and VC won by persistence and politics. They certainly didn't have the hearts of everybody tons tried to get out when Saigon fell fearing for their lives at the hands of the new regime.
 
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We may be talking about two different animals here communism and Islam both have agenda and goals , communism the west can define or think they can , Islam not so clear since the west feels that Islam is nothing more than a religion and not a culture this is where the west is mistaken Islam has its own set of laws and politics the artificial borders the western powers established after WWI , ie , Syria , Iraq , Iran mean nothing to these people , Islam is the common ground .
 
We really couldn't afford Vietnam and the rest of the free world at the same time there is a limit to everything and in my opinion Vietnam was not worth the effort we were supporting a regime that was corrupt beyond belief .
 
S Vietnam

tetvet said:
We really couldn't afford Vietnam and the rest of the free world at the same time there is a limit to everything and in my opinion Vietnam was not worth the effort we were supporting a regime that was corrupt beyond belief .
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Thieu and his administration were a piece of work
 
The Company invented Thieu after they got ride of Diem who was not a company man or at least not a !00% man so he had to go , a lot of cloak and dagger in Saigon , to what end I'm not sure .
 
tetvet said:
Like many people I was born in the U.S. and grew up in Vietnam , I fought through the entire tet offensive 2 months of 24/7 , the U.S. won that battle and you might say the war in that time period , when asked how you could tell the difference between friend and foe my answer was simple you killed them all , it was and all out push to crush the enemy and Americans can be good at that if turned loose , so what needs to be done in the middle my answer is simple .
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So you murdered then?
 
You could / can call it murder if you like you wouldn't be the first, but the tet offensive was a mean fought fight through towns , villages and cities , American soldiers were being killed by the thousands and anger flared innocent people maybe innocent got killed , there is nothing to compare it with in Iraq or Afghan .
 
tetvet said:
You could / can call it murder if you like you wouldn't be the first, but the tet offensive was a mean fought fight through towns , villages and cities , American soldiers were being killed by the thousands and anger flared innocent people maybe innocent got killed , there is nothing to compare it with in Iraq or Afghan .
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The bold is pretty much the entirety of the Iraq war...I'm glad you recognize that city fighting is nastier and more confusing than spraying into treetops into a jungle...

Really, I would say the Fallujah campaign was pretty close...Or the fight in Ramadi from 04-07, how about the battle of Baghdad, or maybe the triangle of death. Baqubah could get particularly nasty and Al-Qaim never really got under control. The one common theme...it was ALL in the city. If you look at the average casualty percentages for the grunts, it was about the same. I lost half my platoon killed or wounded on my first tour (including me), and even more on my second. We just had better armor, training, and medical care (and even faster access to it)than you guys did. That's why more of us survived, not to mention there were a helluva lot less of us in country at any time in Iraq or Afghan than by Tet in 68.

If you were a grunt then it was likely more of the same...I saw my fair share of combat with an enemy one room removed from me...combat where we were screaming and yelling obscenities at one another. I have buddies who killed the enemy with their bare hands, and most of us had killed at least one of the enemy with a knife or bayonet...something I don't think a door gunner is acquainted with...and we still absolutely tried to distinguish between the bad guys and the good. So don't sit here and tell me that "we wouldn't know". You DID know, and you did it anyways.
 
brinktk said:
The bold is pretty much the entirety of the Iraq war...I'm glad you recognize that city fighting is nastier and more confusing than spraying into treetops into a jungle...

Really, I would say the Fallujah campaign was pretty close...Or the fight in Ramadi from 04-07, how about the battle of Baghdad, or maybe the triangle of death. Baqubah could get particularly nasty and Al-Qaim never really got under control. The one common theme...it was ALL in the city. If you look at the average casualty percentages for the grunts, it was about the same. I lost half my platoon killed or wounded on my first tour (including me), and even more on my second. We just had better armor, training, and medical care (and even faster access to it)than you guys did. That's why more of us survived, not to mention there were a helluva lot less of us in country at any time in Iraq or Afghan than by Tet in 68.

If you were a grunt then it was likely more of the same...I saw my fair share of combat with an enemy one room removed from me...combat where we were screaming and yelling obscenities at one another. I have buddies who killed the enemy with their bare hands, and most of us had killed at least one of the enemy with a knife or bayonet...something I don't think a door gunner is acquainted with...and we still absolutely tried to distinguish between the bad guys and the good. So don't sit here and tell me that "we wouldn't know". You DID know, and you did it anyways.
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Wow even though it's in a city, it almost sounds as brutal as the island campaign with the Japanese, I salute you.

JOC
 
tetvet said:
You and I seem to have a conflict of sorts , send me a pm on your issues we can talk about it .
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I don't have a problem, I'm just trying to point out that labeling entire groups is a large portion of the reason we are in this mess in the first place. Once entire populations are labeled "bad" by another population, history shows us it doesn't end well for ANYONE involved.

We are the highest functioning species on this planet, we have come a long way from the days of utter extermination...I think it's about time we use the brains we've been blessed with to try and figure a solution to these very complicated problems without killing a quarter of the human population in the process.
 
JOC said:
Wow even though it's in a city, it almost sounds as brutal as the island campaign with the Japanese, I salute you.

JOC
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Stalingrad pops up.

In Afghanistan conditions are quite different. The war is largely a rural one in nearly impenetrable terrain and are classical counterinsurgency
 
Kesse81 said:
Stalingrad pops up.

In Afghanistan conditions are quite different. The war is largely a rural one in nearly impenetrable terrain and are classical counterinsurgency
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Mountains...ick, I didn't make it to the stan...but many of my close friends have and they say much the same. Mud hut villages deep in valleys with open fields all around that are very hard to navigate...and mountains (i.e. high ground) in every direction...not my idea of a good time.
 
I need to clarified one comment I made when I referred to the company that was the nume de plume of the CIA .
 
Don't want to be pessimistic about the U.S. role in Air Strikes , today we destroyed 2 trucks , 1 Tank and damaged a Humvee , 40 million dollar jets dropping 40 thousand dollar bombs to do something an infantry platoon could have easily have done , am I missing something here ? .
 
Yeah, but as we all know by now, we, the "coalition" is bombing the h*ll outta the oil refineries!! I even said that to my bf before (?) it happened. Then there's the dam. But you really can't go killing the two million citizens that live in that area. That's why I thought of these money pits....oil.

Dadsgirl
p.s.I watch BBC World News
 
dadsgirl said:
Yeah, but as we all know by now, we, the "coalition" is bombing the h*ll outta the oil refineries!! I even said that to my bf before (?) it happened. Then there's the dam. But you really can't go killing the two million citizens that live in that area. That's why I thought of these money pits....oil.

Dadsgirl
p.s.I watch BBC World News
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At least taking away the oil resources will curb their spending a bit.
 
The invasion has arleady begun. A no fly zone first of all and a heavy handed one at that.

Dont let those BS speaches of having no boots on the ground fool you. Apperently Special Force wear sandals now? all 1400 of them, leading peshmerga forces which are of competent quality.Dempsey has given a grean light for the "advisors" to commit to front line action.

This means your will have special forces leading peshmerga. The peshmerga alliad them self against Saddam and fought side by side with the 82nd abn. They are also going for indepennce and this would be a massive boost to their reputation. The joke of 35,000 Iraqi soldiers was a disgrace to he Shia, the peshmerga are taking the fight to the enemy and are making progress.

My point of view is we need to start dumping BCT's in there. The entire middle east is pretty much begging us. This could overwrite the stupidty of Iraq and redeem our repuutation in the region.... I would love to do horrible things to those guys, unforutantly honor forbids it. Two weeks after meeting my elk they would ditch those white nissans and flee for the local mosque or nighbors garage.

Or better yet, we could strand all 31,000 on a mountain, send em up Korans to pass the time......
 
The Problem IS we've been here done this before , the American people will not support another ,'nother mid east war , the U.S. is in darkness with no sign of light and not much sign of life , the battle for the middle east must be won in the U.S. .
 
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