Worst Current Issue Weapon(Rifle or Pistol)

Austrian military trials then compared the AUG with the FN FAL (Austrian Stg 58 in 7.62mm NATO), the Czech Vz58 in 7.62x39 ComBloc, and the 5.56mm NATO FN CAL and Colt M16A1. The AUG proved to be at least as reliable as any of its competitors. It also proved to be superior in accuracy potential, target acquisition, handling characteristics, and full-auto fire controllability. In short, the AUG proved to be a winner.
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And this quote from the same article.

The AUG has been carefully engineered to avoid excessive complication. It's also been engineered to provide the soldier or policeman with several weapons in one.

AUG is a system. Four different barrels fit any receiver in a matter of seconds. That makes four different weapons.
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The stock covers nearly everything that can be damaged on an AUG
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Do I need to keep quoting
 
chewie_nz said:
so why don't you like the bullpup design?

personally i love it and have never had any problems with it....just curious.
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Because on the M16 I have the option of putting a hand on the magazine to steady my shots...bullpup design seems a little too much like a pistol for me...just awkward for long-range shooting.
 
Apparently the bullpups are awkward for shooting long range. But on the plus side I hear they are easier to move around than the standard format.
 
c/Commander said:
chewie_nz said:
so why don't you like the bullpup design?

personally i love it and have never had any problems with it....just curious.
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Because on the M16 I have the option of putting a hand on the magazine to steady my shots...bullpup design seems a little too much like a pistol for me...just awkward for long-range shooting.
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and that would be what the foward hand grip is for... :roll:
 
Yup, the AUG has the handgrip.
I still dont like bullpups but that really is a matter of personal preference. I believe that the AUG can be adapted for left handed use as well, which straightens out the problem the SA80 has.
 
chewie_nz said:
and that would be what the foward hand grip is for... :roll:
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...And the rear handgrip is still too far forward to be useful. Face it, the AUG and the SA80 are not range weapons.
 
sweet then....whats the max usefull range of an m-16?


When sniping with the HBAR, I got better accuracy without holding the foregrip. The support hand should be placed under the magazine catch above the butt hook when firing off the bipod in the prone position.
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plus with an interchangable barrel and scope setup i'm sure you could get quite reasonable accuracy at range.


but we aren't talking about a snipers weapon are we? we're talkin about a general purpose rifle.

why not just say it...YOU DON'T LIKE BULLPUPS?

the rifle doesn't "fall apart" it isn't badly made.....YOU JUST DON'T LIKE BULLPUPS!
 
Because on the M16 I have the option of putting a hand on the magazine to steady my shots...bullpup design seems a little too much like a pistol for me...just awkward for long-range shooting.
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I gotta ask you, what kind of "long range shooting" experience with the Styer have you got to back up your claim? Have you got a resource to back it up?

If you have to, read this again.


It also proved to be superior in accuracy potential, target acquisition, handling characteristics, and full-auto fire controllability. In short, the AUG proved to be a winner.
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accuracy,acquisition, and handling characteristics.... hmmmm.... they all seem pretty important to the overall issue of shooting, long-medium-or-short-range.
 
AussieNick said:
I gotta ask you, what kind of "long range shooting" experience with the Styer have you got to back up your claim? Have you got a resource to back it up?
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300 meter range with a civilian (semi auto only) Steyr that my uncle owns. I dunno, I guess I'm just waaay too used to the M16. (Which, to answer another question, has a MER of around 550 meters.)
 
The IW-Steyr is not too bad a weapon. It does have issues in climate extremes (large amounts of sand and dust in one extreme, long exposure in a wet environment - especially if the rifle isn't new it tends to get ALOT of surface rust). In saying that though all weapons have their draw backs!!!

The only mechanical issues with Steyr is the M-203 variant and the optic sight (2-3 rounds from the M-203 knock the optics out), and depending on the age of the weapon shearing of the gas parts (gas plug) when live firing!!! (not uncommon, but not an everyday occurence).

Overall though, it is a robust weapon!!! Nice and compact so easy to work with the weapon slung. It also is alot more ergonomically designed than SA-80 (by far one of the worst weapons I have had the misfortune of playing with). Very reliable and already have trusted my life on it/ with it!!!
 
I would have a problem using the M203 on the Steyr anyway. There's yet another problem with the Steyr- there's no grip for the '203.

aug_m203.jpg
 
The max effective range for an m16 is 300 to 400 meters, with a section firing it will put accurate concentrated fire out to 600 meters. The M16 and the Steyr are both fine weapons, as I have said before the only thing that matters is that you are properly trained on the weapon you are firing.
 
I would have a problem using the M203 on the Steyr anyway. There's yet another problem with the Steyr- there's no grip for the '203.
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The correct method to hold the weapon whilst firing the 203 is with your right hand around the hand/trigger guard of the Steyr, right index finger on the 203 trigger, and left hand supporting the 203 by the barrel. Should be fairly explanatory (positions reversed for left handers).


It really does seem like your clutching at straws buddy.

Face it, the AUG and the SA80 are not range weapons.
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And the M-16 is?

Guess what, the M-16 and Steyr have the same barrel length, fire the same round, the Styer weighs 0.03 of a kilogram more, and guess what, they have the same effective range.

Source:
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as18-e.htm

300 meter range with a civilian (semi auto only) Steyr that my uncle owns
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Not exactly a fountain of experience then are you. When I asked what experience have you had, I didn't mean a civi model on a civi range. I meant have you ever used a real one in mil conditions?
 
The bullpups had cramped quarters in mind when designed. Some can select which side the spent cartridges will be ejected.
It's really about tradeoff.
I personally prefer the regular type, but I think it is true that they need to get a bit shorter and adapt to the kind of warfare we're most likely to see from now on, stuff that happens under 100m.

If someone made a downward ejecting, ambidextrous bullpup, I'd say it'd need a very good looking into.
 
I started my service life using the Aussie FN FAL then converting to the Steyr.
Initially I hated the Steyr due to its compact size and being used to the longarm.
But now I really like and prefer the Steyr. Just passed my weapon re qual last week and only got back on the internet tonight to see this discussion.
All rifles if not looked after will jam. Yes some peopel hate the fron thand grip but I compromise but shooting with it folded forward, a throwback to my longarm days.
Love its accuracy, no dramas with the 203 and have carried it in the desert and back home in the bush.
M16A2 is fine but I hate the iron sites, the Steyr has spoiled me to some extent.
Using an M16a2 at JRTC in the US last year we manged to break the stocks on 2 of them! Steyrs are pretty robust but have heard of the cocking handles breaking.
Personnaly I like the steyr, but I do miss the days of the FN FAL. The old elephant gun did blow holes through most everything!
Cheers.
 
Yes the steyr is a fine weapon. I've seen 2 people break their cocking handles but the impact required wouldn't happen too often.

When i went through basic training we were told that the step down to 5.56mm was due to some mid 1960's convention upon where it was decided the 7.62mm round caused a too bigger fatality ratio(gonna get slammed for that). But it sort of makes sense, it takes more men to remove a wounded man from a fire fight then a dead one.

Only it was then discovered that the 5.56mm f1 ball round has a slightly hollow tip which makes it "tumble" into its targets, which one- can create an absoloutely gruesome exit wound and 2- can bounce around the innards of a target causing severe damage and possible exiting the body in a random location.
 
yeah, if you have ever seen anyone hit with a 5.56mm round, you will notice that sometimes it's very hard to find the exit wound. Sometimes people will catch one in the chest and it will come out around waist level.
 
yeah, if you have ever seen anyone hit with a 5.56mm round, you will notice that sometimes it's very hard to find the exit wound. Sometimes people will catch one in the chest and it will come out around waist level.
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It's pretty much due to the technology of the round. The 5.56mm rounds are designed to in effect squash on impact and change direction within the body. The 7.62mm round was just a smash and grap tactic round. It relied on brute hitting power.
 
I heard that some 5.56 mm can fragment when it impacts the body, going all over the place, and causing nasty internal wounds because of the multiple fragments rip at several places in the body.and changing directions.

If love the Aug ull love or h8 this mean machine:
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~savvus/IWA/Other/DSCF0015.jpg
paste and click.
The extra wieght in the front with surely reduce the high recoli on the aug due to the lack of wieght in front.
 
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