Withdraw of Spanish troops in Iraq

Yes I have heard of Liberia.........

Question for you is Africa only made up of Liberia and Somalia.

There are many other countries with that could use help besides the US throwing more money at the problem. It does not help matters at all.
 
There are many other countries with that could use help besides the US throwing more money at the problem. It does not help matters at all.
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This very attitude is why the US is damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't. No matter what, someone will always complain. "Too involved." "Not involved enough." Blah, blah. Everyone is so gung-ho about sacrficing my and my brothers lives to suit whatever cause the pundits want. Sorry to inform those of you that don't know, but no nation is altruistic, and any one that would be wouldn't be a nation for very long. The interests of the US come first and foremost to her, and it should to her people.
 
I'm sorry but given Italy's different time I can't always reply immediately.
I see people like RedNeck or RndrSafe understand what I mean though.
About the comparison I came up with between Nazi Germany, Munich, appeasement, and Spanish 'bowing' to terrorism, yep I was referring to the post Saddam era, which is what is now going on.
Of course every country has a military, but it's gotta be ready to use it in order to defend itself. It means it believes in its own values and loves its sons and daughters. Or else it's just cowardy, or folly.
Sure there has to be some sort of a compromise ( you CAN'T wage war against any country you're concerned by ), but a country cannot stand idly there, when it reasonably thinks it is under threat. That's what I think it was Wolfowitz said: " What would you do if you knew a gang of criminals is planning to kill and rape your wife and daughters ? would you keep asking for permission to your neighbors who do not believe you, or would you just PROTECT your family ?'. That's it.
 
and you're so much right Colonel RnderSafe: there's always gonna be whining and complaining about the US, whatsoever it does. It goes there and send troops? oh that's imperialistic, every nations has its own peculiar path to democracy. It stays home and ignores something? Oh see how selfish the US is. There's no way out. There's a saying here: " the idiots' mother's always pregnant ".
 
Gunner13 said:
The problem was that Sadam did not, and was not going to, stay in HIS own backyard. Leaving aside the fact that he was a murderous, money filtching bozo, he also invaded 2 other countries, bombarded others with SCUD missiles and was ready to do it again at any time. A threat to one country can rapidly become a threat to all. Do you think that Nazi Germany would have started WW II if the French or British Governments had stood up to him in 1934?
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Thats just speculations though. ;)
And he probebly would have started WW2 even if so. Although thats once again speculations ;)
 
Redneck said:
I believe he meant (correct me if I'm wrong, ItalianGuy, I'd hate to put words in your mouth) that a democracy should be willing to use force to defend it's way of life.
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By sending their soldiers home, they get a greater defence at "home" then they would if they had those soldiers stationed in Iraq. By doing this they have a greater chance to counteract the terrorist action on their homebase ;)
 
Redneck said:
Ever hear of Liberia?
And Somalia (granted, a certain someone decided it would be best to cut and run there before we accomplished anything, but we did send troops there)?

Be realistic, though, we can only do so much, but at least we are doing what we can (besides military operations, look at the billions we send overseas in foreign aid every year, along with the manpower and resources we expend delivering that aid and providing other assistance to foreign nations). Along with this, the military option (as you can see with all the ya-hoos moaning today) needs more justification than just "we think we should get boots on the ground and help these people" (too many people would rather look the other way than face any chance of being asked to sacrifice anything themselves to help anyone else), so those nations we will enter first will always be those that have the ability to present a direct threat to ourselves as well as their own civilians.
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So do other countries in the world aswell ;)
 
RnderSafe said:
There are many other countries with that could use help besides the US throwing more money at the problem. It does not help matters at all.
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Sorry to inform those of you that don't know, but no nation is altruistic, and any one that would be wouldn't be a nation for very long. The interests of the US come first and foremost to her, and it should to her people.
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Sure youre right, but then no other country can be blamed for critisizing the US and for not involving itself into that fight.
 
Pollux said:
Sure youre right, but then no other country can be blamed for critisizing the US and for not involving itself into that fight.
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If a country criticizes the US, then that country is to blame for the criticism.

As for those states unwilling to assist in the coalition, they had their reasons, flimsy or not and they did what they thought was best or would gain the most profit. I disagreed with many of the EU states reasons for not supporting, but then, I never expected them to in the first place. No reason to "blame" them, or even hate them .. I dislike governments, not countries and their people.

I, personally, am grateful to Spain for sending troops to begin with .. my opinions on her now have nothing to do with pulling out of Iraq. I'm simply saddened and disgusted to see another nation allowing the terrorists a win. Pulling troops out of Iraq and distancing itself from the war isn't the problem, IMO, it's backing down in the face of terror.

alexkall said:
By sending their soldiers home, they get a greater defence at "home" then they would if they had those soldiers stationed in Iraq. By doing this they have a greater chance to counteract the terrorist action on their homebase
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Good try, Alex, but they didn't have that many troops there. :lol:
 
RnderSafe said:
If a country criticizes the US, then that country is to blame for the criticism.
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Why that? Did the US in your absolutely make no faults during the iraq campaign, that could be criticized?
Of course are we talking about governments, i dont want to attack any indiviual here...
 
Pollux said:
Why that? Did the US in your absolutely make no faults during the iraq campaign, that could be criticized?
Of course are we talking about governments, i dont want to attack any indiviual here...
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Why what? If I criticise you, then I am to blame for the criticism I just made against you. Right? It's called personal accountability.

Since criticisms are opinions, any country that throws them out has to take responsibility for said opinions. It doesn't mean the US did or didn't do anything "wrong" (which is also subjective) it simply means the country criticising felt the US did. Therefore, that country is responsible for it's criticisms. You see? :D
 
RnderSafe said:
Good try, Alex, but they didn't have that many troops there. :lol:
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Does that really matter what the number of soldiers is? No, one soldier makes a difference. The ball has landed in your garden, better pick it up ;)
 
ItalianGuy4US said:
and you're so much right Colonel RnderSafe: there's always gonna be whining and complaining about the US, whatsoever it does. It goes there and send troops? oh that's imperialistic, every nations has its own peculiar path to democracy. It stays home and ignores something? Oh see how selfish the US is. There's no way out. There's a saying here: " the idiots' mother's always pregnant ".
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Hear, hear! :lol: I don't want to take the path of somebody with a persecution complex, but it does seem that this is the reality of the situation. Even in this topic it can be seen ("why did you go to Iraq? that was wrong" "because we had to morally, as well as defending our interests" "well then, why don't you go to the rest of the world" :lol: "if we did, we'd be sitting hear talking about U.S. imperialism in Africa, too").

And AlexKall, better start making some real arguments, these one liners are only making it about halfway to the garden wall, better work on them biceps ;) .
 
RnderSafe said:
Sorry to inform those of you that don't know, but no nation is altruistic, and any one that would be wouldn't be a nation for very long. The interests of the US come first and foremost to her, and it should to her people.
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Finally the truth! American interests come before anyone elses in the world.
 
Redneck said:
ItalianGuy4US said:
and you're so much right Colonel RnderSafe: there's always gonna be whining and complaining about the US, whatsoever it does. It goes there and send troops? oh that's imperialistic, every nations has its own peculiar path to democracy. It stays home and ignores something? Oh see how selfish the US is. There's no way out. There's a saying here: " the idiots' mother's always pregnant ".
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Hear, hear! :lol: I don't want to take the path of somebody with a persecution complex, but it does seem that this is the reality of the situation. Even in this topic it can be seen ("why did you go to Iraq? that was wrong" "because we had to morally, as well as defending our interests" "well then, why don't you go to the rest of the world" :lol: "if we did, we'd be sitting hear talking about U.S. imperialism in Africa, too").

And AlexKall, better start making some real arguments, these one liners are only making it about halfway to the garden wall, better work on them biceps ;) .
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I dont even know why im keep pushing this forward i have allready made the point that this was a political choise :lol: Excuse me ;)

Know what i read in the news paper? The war has been blamed on the Swedes :lol: Bush supposivly had a grunge against blix and took it out over Sweden (some how) :lol:
 
panzer said:
Finally the truth! American interests come before anyone elses in the world.
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Any nation's interests should be the first concern of that nation's government. We, thankfully, have been able to not only serve our own interests, but at the same time liberate two nations from despotic governments.
 
I think we are about to slide a bit off-topic here..

I think I can recal that the title of this topic was
"Withdraw of Spanish troops in Iraq", let's try to stay on that track from now on, but you are free to start a new topic about the matter you are discussing now.

You are free to mean almost whatever you want, but no country bashing!
 
well

I agree that saddam was...well is a :cen: but i just hope the american troops will stay till its 100% stable ( 1-2-3 more years) and not leave to other countrys to clean up the mess...

Like right now in "faloudja" (im lazy to go check its spelling) i hope that the marines will take over because there loosing alot of lives...but i hope these... "rebelles" wont pop up again once the US decides to leave...
 
Does that really matter what the number of soldiers is? No, one soldier makes a difference. The ball has landed in your garden, better pick it up
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Yes, it matters unless somehow they were being invaded, 1300 isn't going to make or break them. Now, it's a good excuse .. and looks good and logical, but it isn't very practical - and it's the obvious tactic to use "out" of the debate. ;)

I dont even know why im keep pushing this forward i have allready made the point that this was a political choise
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Well now, I thought it was a strategic choice? Make up your mind, lad!

As I said, I've got no problems with them pulling their troops out of Iraq, they could have pulled them because they decided they wanted to send them on a Disney World trip and I wouldn't have cared. I appreciated what they did, and that's that. My problem is with a government bowing to down to terrorists out of fear and to achieve political gain.
 
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