A Can of Man
Je suis aware
A lot of us here have a qualification to go with us.
Myself included.
Myself included.
Which of these tanks can perform the best?
Ice Tea
Active member
Well, I'm not a Paratrooper yet. Just hoping to be. In approximately eight months (December) I'll have the entry tests.
But I'd hate to derail the thread, so by all means, let's get back on topic.
I haven't seen any mention of the Iron Fist and TROPHY systems in this thread. Is there any reason for that?
But I'd hate to derail the thread, so by all means, let's get back on topic.
I haven't seen any mention of the Iron Fist and TROPHY systems in this thread. Is there any reason for that?
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Probably because a lot of us are grunts and aren't very familiar with the finer parts of the tank systems.
tommy_gunn
Active member
it was not the British with the 120mm was the south African army on the olifant "elephant" tank in Angola then adopted by the British
Ice Tea
Active member
on the Olifant? I would like a source for that. The original olifant, before the newer versions, was bascially a Centurion. I can see a 120mm being fitted to the already cramped turret of a centurion. Moreover, the Olifant upgraded in the early 1990s to a better 105mm, according to this . Also in that source is a short part about the Olifant 2, which is being developed to carry a 120mm.
As far as the "no fair this is an English forum" stuff...Im sorry, dident mean to piss you guys off. What I wrote to Ice Tea is that if he is using the paratrooper badge as his avatar there is no wonder he dosent understand the point of rifled 120mm guns.
FO Seaman
Active member
Are either system in mass use and mass production? In addition, Iron Fist and Trophy can be mounted to any armor vehicle, not specifically tanks which this thread pertains to. Both are just another add-on, just like ERA.
What in the case of multiple incoming projectiles? Something like a TOW would not be affected by it's jamming system, and with what appears to be a limited amount of defensive munitions, it would be hard for either to defeat multiple incomings, but the systems are none the less extremely impressive, and show the true inventiveness and out of the box thinking of IMI.
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Ice Tea
Active member
Well, according to my understanding, during, or shortly after Operation Cast Lead, the IDF began to outfit a limited number of Merkava Mark 4 tanks with the Trophy system. So I'd guess it's in the late-late phases of testing.
Now I could very well be wrong on this, since I don't actually know what's going on inside the army. But I think I've heard it in the news.
Concurred. The reason I am mentioning these systems is that they, or one of them, could (hypothetically, maybe) give the Merkava Mark 4 an edge over other tanks mentioned in this thread, especially if it could stop a tank round. That would be downright scary.
Theoretically, both systems should be able to tackle multiple threats at a time. As for the TOW, well, in case the jamming fails and the projectile keeps coming, there's the Plan B which Mack (I like his style) had mentioned - the Iron Fist will launch its own projectile against the incoming threat. What almost certainly assures success is that it doesn't have to hit the rocket directly, but simply explode near it, and it's a pretty big explosion, making missing nearly impossible. As for Trophy... actually, I have no idea what it launches at incoming threats. I think it's safe to say that Iron Fist is superior, because of its jamming ability if nothing else. It also seems to be newer.
Is "newer" a word?
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FO Seaman
Active member
Well IMI is not the only company that has experimented and designed an active defense system. Here in the US we've been delving into the technology for quite some time, but never fielded anything to date, IMI however has been able to get it's system fielded much faster, and I a tribute that to the fact that the Israeli government doesn't impede it's defense companies with budget cuts, congressional investigations, and the likes, unlike our mighty bureaucracy.
Well I imagine it can stop any range of threats coming at it, but what I'm questioning is it's limited amount of munitions. Does it have an auto-reload, what is it's capacity of stowed defense ammo. I see it can stop a round fire at it, but can it stop seven rounds fired consecutively, can it defeat a multi-RPG barrage, how does it deal with multipe threats. In Iraq M1's are ambushed (usually without result) by multiple RPG teams from all sides, and for a good solid five minutes.
Ice Tea
Active member
Odds are, the amount of munitions each system is capable of storing and how many simultaneous projectiles can be dealt with at a time are classified, since in this knowledge lies the key to hitting a Merkava Mark 4 equipped with these systems.
I think the Merkava usually doesn't have to deal with so many incoming threats all at once, but I honestly don't know enough to say. I imagine Sherman's got an infinitely better idea of what it's like.
I think the Merkava usually doesn't have to deal with so many incoming threats all at once, but I honestly don't know enough to say. I imagine Sherman's got an infinitely better idea of what it's like.
I am under the impression that TROPHY can handle several threats at the same time. I am not sure, I never even saw the system other than in youtube videos.
Merkava faces the same ammount of threats as any other tank in the world, you can have 4-5 missiles comming at you one after the other, from diffrent angles. But the chance of two missiles comming in at the same millisecond is not high.
No one said active protection systems are perfect.
Merkava faces the same ammount of threats as any other tank in the world, you can have 4-5 missiles comming at you one after the other, from diffrent angles. But the chance of two missiles comming in at the same millisecond is not high.
No one said active protection systems are perfect.
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Panzercracker
Active member
Unless Israelis employed a few against Hezbollah no they haven't.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
We'll have to see about the K2. Can't tell if a tank is good or not unless it's at least a few years old.