A Can of Man
Je suis aware
So is Chewie going to try the math or is everyone waiting for me to do it? :lol:
war for oil
me and math? bad idea....
we'll probably find out that the US army OWES the world oil.
this is what i got from the hippy in question;
http://forums.punkas.com/viewtopic.php?t=18171&start=45
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Alaska and all of the US's other oil reservers are getting low. They are also no longer as economically viable as they used to be. Its not about oil for the bloody tanks - its abotu securing long term access to cheap oil in Iraq. Its about giving multinational corporations access to the worlds second biggest reserves of oil in the world, i.e. iraq. the Us and Uk and their buisiness buddies have not had access to Iraqs oil since the 1970s. As a result of the war in Iraq, they now have access to it. You think its only slightly interesting that as everything was being demolished in Baghdad, only the oil ministry was protected by US marines? They will have more control over this oil than through agreements with Saudia Arabia - who is much to strong to invade and has no dictators to use as an excuse. The same oil companies, btw, are the ones making the money out of reconstruction in iraq.
I don't know where you get your ideas from, but I don't think you'll find many people, except for maybe rightwingers, who thinks this has nothign to do with oil.
i doubt any of you would call me right wing huh?
Sigh... do I really have to post this? The war in Iraq is *all* about oil. Before you start dissing people and saying they haven't done their research.. perhaps you should do some reading of your own. Here's a post by the climate action group Auckland Rising Tide...
Iraq: Casualty of Oil
Press Release: Auckland Rising Tide
20 March 2005
Iraq: Casualty of Oil
Auckland Rising Tide activist Simon Oosterman, who recently appeared naked at court, will be appearing dressed but suitably attired at court tomorrow (Monday 21st) for two separate court charges related to the same issue: OIL.
The climate activist was charged for 'indecent exposure' during the Auckland World Naked Bike Ride in February. Mr Oosterman was also charged for 'obstructing a footpath' on Saturdays global day of action against the second year of the Iraq war.
"It is imperative that people make the connection between these two issues: our addiction to oil fuels the war in Iraq and climate change, which threatens the entire planet and its peoples" said Mr Oosterman.
"It is not a coincidence that the oil multinationals and US and UK governments seeking to secure access to Iraqs oil fields, are the same people stopping real solutions to climate change" he said.
Iraq holds 10% of the worlds oil, the second largest in the world.
As western oil fields have declined and oil production has become more expensive, US and UK international policies have been defined by the need to secure access to cheap oil.
The war in Iraq has provided lucrative reconstruction contacts to oil companies and the privatisation of Iraq oil fields will open them to western companies for the first time since the 1970s.
A recent BBC news item unveiled US and oil industry plans for Iraq's oil before the 9/11 attack. (1) One month after the occupation of Iraq began, the US government put a former CEO of Shell Oil USA in charge of Iraq's oil.
"There is no 'axis of evil', there is only an 'axis of oil'. The war in Iraq is solidifying the interests of the fossil fuel industry with US power. The only weapon of mass destruction in Iraq is oil and the world is being held hostage to it" he said.
"Renewable energy is the answer to the international security threat of climate chaos. It would also provide hope to the Iraqi people by breaking the power of those seeking to control their oil reserves. Renewable energy is a path to self determination for the worlds poor, for even the poorest country is rich in natural sources of power" he concluded.
Mr Oosterman will be turning up to court on Monday morning as a part of a 'Funeral of Democracy'. The Global Peace & Justice led protest will meet at 9 o'clock at Aotea Square and then march up to the district court.
Auckland Rising Tide calls for:
No war in Iraq!
Bring home all troops!
No new oil!ß
A rapid and socially just transition to renewable energies!
END
Auckland Rising Tide is available at work hours on 09 361 6990 or after 6 at 09 373 3519.
Email: auckland (at) risingtide.org.nz Website: http://auckland.risingtide.org.nz
1. Palast, Greg (17 March 2005) "Secret U.S. Plans For Iraq's Oil", BBC Newsnight
See also:
http://auckland.risingtide.org.nz
http://www.risingtide.org.uk
we'll probably find out that the US army OWES the world oil.
this is what i got from the hippy in question;
http://forums.punkas.com/viewtopic.php?t=18171&start=45
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Alaska and all of the US's other oil reservers are getting low. They are also no longer as economically viable as they used to be. Its not about oil for the bloody tanks - its abotu securing long term access to cheap oil in Iraq. Its about giving multinational corporations access to the worlds second biggest reserves of oil in the world, i.e. iraq. the Us and Uk and their buisiness buddies have not had access to Iraqs oil since the 1970s. As a result of the war in Iraq, they now have access to it. You think its only slightly interesting that as everything was being demolished in Baghdad, only the oil ministry was protected by US marines? They will have more control over this oil than through agreements with Saudia Arabia - who is much to strong to invade and has no dictators to use as an excuse. The same oil companies, btw, are the ones making the money out of reconstruction in iraq.
I don't know where you get your ideas from, but I don't think you'll find many people, except for maybe rightwingers, who thinks this has nothign to do with oil.
i doubt any of you would call me right wing huh?
Sigh... do I really have to post this? The war in Iraq is *all* about oil. Before you start dissing people and saying they haven't done their research.. perhaps you should do some reading of your own. Here's a post by the climate action group Auckland Rising Tide...
Iraq: Casualty of Oil
Press Release: Auckland Rising Tide
20 March 2005
Iraq: Casualty of Oil
Auckland Rising Tide activist Simon Oosterman, who recently appeared naked at court, will be appearing dressed but suitably attired at court tomorrow (Monday 21st) for two separate court charges related to the same issue: OIL.
The climate activist was charged for 'indecent exposure' during the Auckland World Naked Bike Ride in February. Mr Oosterman was also charged for 'obstructing a footpath' on Saturdays global day of action against the second year of the Iraq war.
"It is imperative that people make the connection between these two issues: our addiction to oil fuels the war in Iraq and climate change, which threatens the entire planet and its peoples" said Mr Oosterman.
"It is not a coincidence that the oil multinationals and US and UK governments seeking to secure access to Iraqs oil fields, are the same people stopping real solutions to climate change" he said.
Iraq holds 10% of the worlds oil, the second largest in the world.
As western oil fields have declined and oil production has become more expensive, US and UK international policies have been defined by the need to secure access to cheap oil.
The war in Iraq has provided lucrative reconstruction contacts to oil companies and the privatisation of Iraq oil fields will open them to western companies for the first time since the 1970s.
A recent BBC news item unveiled US and oil industry plans for Iraq's oil before the 9/11 attack. (1) One month after the occupation of Iraq began, the US government put a former CEO of Shell Oil USA in charge of Iraq's oil.
"There is no 'axis of evil', there is only an 'axis of oil'. The war in Iraq is solidifying the interests of the fossil fuel industry with US power. The only weapon of mass destruction in Iraq is oil and the world is being held hostage to it" he said.
"Renewable energy is the answer to the international security threat of climate chaos. It would also provide hope to the Iraqi people by breaking the power of those seeking to control their oil reserves. Renewable energy is a path to self determination for the worlds poor, for even the poorest country is rich in natural sources of power" he concluded.
Mr Oosterman will be turning up to court on Monday morning as a part of a 'Funeral of Democracy'. The Global Peace & Justice led protest will meet at 9 o'clock at Aotea Square and then march up to the district court.
Auckland Rising Tide calls for:
No war in Iraq!
Bring home all troops!
No new oil!ß
A rapid and socially just transition to renewable energies!
END
Auckland Rising Tide is available at work hours on 09 361 6990 or after 6 at 09 373 3519.
Email: auckland (at) risingtide.org.nz Website: http://auckland.risingtide.org.nz
1. Palast, Greg (17 March 2005) "Secret U.S. Plans For Iraq's Oil", BBC Newsnight
See also:
http://auckland.risingtide.org.nz
http://www.risingtide.org.uk
Duty Honor Country
Active member
Here is an idea to throw out to everyone.
If there were no oil in the Middle East, would the rest of the world really care what goes on there?
I had a teacher in high school tell us that is there was no oil in the Middle East, the place would be like Africa. The world seems to do enough in Africa so it can say we care, but we could do so much more there if we wanted. Sudan and Rowanda are perfect examples of this notion. Wars go on in Aftrica for years and the world does little. Saddam invades the oil fields of Kuwait, and the world responds quickly.
you and my dad would get along great :shock:
If there were no oil in the Middle East, would the rest of the world really care what goes on there?
I had a teacher in high school tell us that is there was no oil in the Middle East, the place would be like Africa. The world seems to do enough in Africa so it can say we care, but we could do so much more there if we wanted. Sudan and Rowanda are perfect examples of this notion. Wars go on in Aftrica for years and the world does little. Saddam invades the oil fields of Kuwait, and the world responds quickly.
you and my dad would get along great :shock:
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
There is an unlimited amount of ways to secure cheap oil.
Going to war over it, as history has proven time and again, is one of the most inefficient ways.
All the US had to do was make peace with Saddam, ensure his security and power (not hard considering how many countries were already in on that) and in return, have Saddam provide the world with a good deal on oil.
However, the case of Kuwait was different.
They were afraid that Saddam was after ALL the oil in the middle east. And Saddam was in a stronger position then than he was two years ago. That's why military action had to be taken. If Saddam controlled any more oil, that would put him in a stronger position.
In 2002 or 03, he was in no position to invade anyone.
Going to war over it, as history has proven time and again, is one of the most inefficient ways.
All the US had to do was make peace with Saddam, ensure his security and power (not hard considering how many countries were already in on that) and in return, have Saddam provide the world with a good deal on oil.
However, the case of Kuwait was different.
They were afraid that Saddam was after ALL the oil in the middle east. And Saddam was in a stronger position then than he was two years ago. That's why military action had to be taken. If Saddam controlled any more oil, that would put him in a stronger position.
In 2002 or 03, he was in no position to invade anyone.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
You guys do mean subsaharan Africa right?
Because North Africa has a lot of historical jewels of the world including Cairo.
Because North Africa has a lot of historical jewels of the world including Cairo.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Re: Re-War for Oil
If you want someone to blame for the increase in oil prices you would probably be better off blaming developing countries (China, India etc.) as in their quest to develope stronger economies they are purchasing more and more oil and you really cant deny their right to do so.
Doc.S said:Well sir as I did say before, interpret that question as you want, common ppl do not see the the purchasers as the main threat to the extreme gasoline prices thats for sure, some ppl blame George Bush (big-city fokes), even more are sick and tired on all conflicts in the middle east, terrorism (country-side fokes) that seems to be a never ending story. I think that OPEC did show its muscles in the 70ths and that is something ppl seems to remember. IMHO I think oil buyers and oil producers need to turn on the big charm machine soon, because it seems not to work anymore with the "pride and we got it"- look. Wrong people can make use of such detest that is growing right now. :?
Doc.S
:viking:
If you want someone to blame for the increase in oil prices you would probably be better off blaming developing countries (China, India etc.) as in their quest to develope stronger economies they are purchasing more and more oil and you really cant deny their right to do so.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Yes Monty's got that exactly right.
The main reason why the prices are going up is because competition for oil has hotted up recently. China and India are clamoring for oil... India just never being able to get enough of it as of now.
The main reason why the prices are going up is because competition for oil has hotted up recently. China and India are clamoring for oil... India just never being able to get enough of it as of now.
Big_Z
MilForum Recon
If America wanted Iraqs oil we would simply seize their oil fields and kill anything that got within 50 miles. We wouldn't have anything to do with rebuilding their country. I find it so amazing that France, Russia, and Germany can have a "oil for food" program and nobody cares. We are spending BILLIONS to get Iraq back on its feet yet we are the oil mongers.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Big_Z said:
I really would love to stay out of the blood for oil argument but to play devils advocate it is an easy argument to make especially now the WMD argument has fallen flat on its face.
If you look at the world in general there are many countries that need "liberating" that are in a much worse state than Iraq ever was and yet they are not even on the US radar for "democratisation" the only thing that sets Iraq apart from all those given the lack of WMD's and Al Quaeda ties is the presence of oil.
DISCLAIMER: I dont believe oil was the driving reason for the invasion I do believe it was a factor in Iraq's selection though but it was one of many reasons some good and some bad.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Hmmmm I don't know.
It would have been a factor for Bush, sure, but that wouldn't have cleared congress.
It would have been a factor for Bush, sure, but that wouldn't have cleared congress.
Re-War for Oil
I am not blaming anyone for the high gasoline prizes, I only reflects (mirrors) the uncertainty felt by the general public in my direct surroundings on home grounds at the moment.
I dont believe either that the main reason to attack Iraq was oil. But I believe in progress for the Iraqi ppl and that democracy is on its way to the Middle East. Not only there - Afghanistan, Iraq, Ukraine, Libanon and more to come. I think high gasoline prizes is here only to stay that way for a couple of years.
Otherwise, there will be other alternatives on the market that will provide ppl with "gasoline" for their cars and trucks and then. No more eyes towards the middle east, just as with Africa (no more colonys). Tourism yes if the region can control itself. Otherwise, a big "toxic" desert that no one will care about.
The future is alredy here, it just take time to get the cars and the other vehicles out to the public, it is just as it is with medicine befor it get´s out on the market. Another factor is that oil intrests still can be found amongs our top-leaders and they are in close business with oil companys, stocks and such. The new generation "oil-sheikhs" will be the alternative fuel sheikhs. Wait a generation or two and it will be here.
The days for big oil companys are enumerated IMHO.
Doc.S
:viking:
I am not blaming anyone for the high gasoline prizes, I only reflects (mirrors) the uncertainty felt by the general public in my direct surroundings on home grounds at the moment.
I dont believe either that the main reason to attack Iraq was oil. But I believe in progress for the Iraqi ppl and that democracy is on its way to the Middle East. Not only there - Afghanistan, Iraq, Ukraine, Libanon and more to come. I think high gasoline prizes is here only to stay that way for a couple of years.
Otherwise, there will be other alternatives on the market that will provide ppl with "gasoline" for their cars and trucks and then. No more eyes towards the middle east, just as with Africa (no more colonys). Tourism yes if the region can control itself. Otherwise, a big "toxic" desert that no one will care about.
The future is alredy here, it just take time to get the cars and the other vehicles out to the public, it is just as it is with medicine befor it get´s out on the market. Another factor is that oil intrests still can be found amongs our top-leaders and they are in close business with oil companys, stocks and such. The new generation "oil-sheikhs" will be the alternative fuel sheikhs. Wait a generation or two and it will be here.
The days for big oil companys are enumerated IMHO.
Doc.S
:viking:
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
I think oil companies have alternative fuel ideas on the table already. I think they're going to bust them out once the fuel shortages REALLY get serious. oil companies are so insanely rich it's ridiculous... with those resources I find it hard to believe that they haven't come up with anything yet.
the_13th_redneck said:
My friends and I actually believe that the oil companies are what's stopping us from advancing forward with the alternative fuel technologies. It's like DeBeers controlling all the diamonds, the oil companies control all the research labs. It does make sense if you think about it: Oil companies are insanely rich, they can seek out the private parties researching on alternative fuel technologies and buy them, directly influence the progress and exposure. When the day comes that they can no longer squeeze milk from gasoline, kaboom! They release the new money cow, how convenient!
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Zyca, I woudln't be surprised if they already have the alternative and are just waiting utnil they can finish cashing in on the remaining world oil. I guess the earth can suffer a little longer eh? Maybe the new fuel isn't as cost effective to get and refine but they know that if they price it too high, another oil company with another alternative fuel pricing it a bit cheaper will win all the contracts.
You know what I mean? Oil would be the cheapest option of all, so if anyone came out with the alternative today, they would report severe losses anyways. So they wait until people HAVE to convert out of oil either out of the price going up due to the lack of supplies Or the world REALLY can't take it anymore.
You know what I mean? Oil would be the cheapest option of all, so if anyone came out with the alternative today, they would report severe losses anyways. So they wait until people HAVE to convert out of oil either out of the price going up due to the lack of supplies Or the world REALLY can't take it anymore.
Corocotta
Active member
USAFAUX2004 said:
War in irak began in 2003, so the elections before the war were in 2002. Don´t you see the relation?? :roll:
Read this: http://www.campaignmoney.com/exxon_mobil.asp