US amplifies non-existent Chinese military threat
k19 said:
You're not living in China, my mistake I admit to that.
You listen to the BBC and you call our news propaganda, HA! give me a break!
The artitcle was not that China is threat, but that is a "non-existent threat". I already said its not a big threat. That fact that you are willing to believe it is a "non-existent threat" leads me to believe you are the one listening to pure propaganda.
The reason China, a non-democratic nation, is somewhat of a threat is because it wants to aquire Tiawan, a democratic nation (much less powerful than China), by intimidation, and or, use of force if it can.
Please don't tell me this threat is non-existent.
MadeInChina
Active member
lol, there u have to open the old wound of the taiwanese issue that redleg has put so much effort into sewing it back
well alls over and ur the salt
taiwan is a rebel province that must back in CHINESE power
lol, u only care about taiwan because it is aginist the chinese government and its an ally of us
well alls over and ur the salt
taiwan is a rebel province that must back in CHINESE power
lol, u only care about taiwan because it is aginist the chinese government and its an ally of us
No, I care because it is a democratic nation.
But let's not get into this, because its really off the subject, the topic was the "non-existent" Chinese threat.
I know you all who support China would like to paint it as a saint who can do no wrong, ...but please, that's pure propaganda, which was the point of the discussion with k19.
Don't tell me that a non-democratic nation who is growing more powerful is not going to be a threat to other countries that are democratic and less powerful.
But let's not get into this, because its really off the subject, the topic was the "non-existent" Chinese threat.
I know you all who support China would like to paint it as a saint who can do no wrong, ...but please, that's pure propaganda, which was the point of the discussion with k19.
Don't tell me that a non-democratic nation who is growing more powerful is not going to be a threat to other countries that are democratic and less powerful.
MadeInChina
Active member
man you guys are pretty static, just like those therories that think man cant live past 1976 because of food shortages.
soon china will be more and more free till it comes a point where it will turn democratic
lol, less democraic countries, we dont touch them , we dont need them, they could carryon their daily lives
like why would we need vietnam?? or why do we really need to have kazakhanstan???
soon china will be more and more free till it comes a point where it will turn democratic
lol, less democraic countries, we dont touch them , we dont need them, they could carryon their daily lives
like why would we need vietnam?? or why do we really need to have kazakhanstan???
seriously man, do you know what are you talking about? how far do you understand about china's politics? do you know what they were doing or trying to do everyday? no, you don't, at least i see how demacrtic works, so don't you try to use "demecrtic" to impress me man.
seriously, don't even start talking about Taiwan. both sides haven't fired a single shot over 50 years for a reason, everybody knows why. so exactly who is forcing whom to fire up, you have to get it clear. that's where US media trying to reduce the casue, but enlarging the so called "chinese threat".
you better read other's post carefully and then saying things, you were the one that started crowning other's opinion as "propaganda" man. china does not do all the things right even base on my point of view, never said they do, or never tried to say it. and what is "right" anyway? who to judge? either they do it right or wrong, i am sure they have the reason to do so and plenty people agree to it.
even we "threating"(with an "if" of course)taiwan, what it has anything to do with your sercurity?--- a country was almost on the other side of the earth? why, because over all, it would reduce US's infulence and interests in aisa, where were not willing to give up!
the thing is very simple, US has many choices to deal over events in aisa, but china has none, so who is playing whom? and who is been threatened? force to go to war, and choice to go to war are two different things.
k19 said:
First of all this is NOt about China being a threat, but a non-existent threat, can you even understand the difference, like I said before you could have saved yourself alot of writting. Anyone saying that China is a "non-existent threat" is propaganda.
Anyone with half a brain knows that although China may not be a big threat, the fact that it is a non-existent threat is ABSOLUTELY PROPOSTROUS!
Crowing someones opinion as propaganda is definately right that it is propaganda. News should be fact not opinions.
Saying China is a "non-existant threat" is opinion, when it is presented as news then it becomes propaganda, maybe you don't know the difference anymore.
Second of all, you were the one who was saying that listening to US news is propaganda.
Thirdly what even though Tawain may have nothing to do with US security, neither does Tawain have to do with China's security. It could still go on existing without Taiwan, so you really got no point here.
Fourthly this whole dicussion has to do with the article the article being bordering or simply outright propaganda, even the original poster, chewie_nz has the good sense enough to know this, even though he doesn't agree with everyon here he knows were the line is drawn between fact and fantasy(I commend him). So I really don't see the basis were you are trying to take this other than to paint China as a saint which it is not, so spare me the propaganda.
You guys should read The Grand Chessboard, that book is about American Primacy and its Geostrategic Imperatives by author Zbigniew Brzezinski, it is a very interesting book indeed. 
Book: The Grand Chessboard
Author: Zbigniew Brzezinski
ISBN: 0-465-02726-1
LINK:
http://www.perseusbooksgroup.com/perseus/author_detail.jsp?id=000703
This book is my time-machine
Cheers:
Doc.S
:viking:
Book: The Grand Chessboard
Author: Zbigniew Brzezinski
ISBN: 0-465-02726-1
LINK:
http://www.perseusbooksgroup.com/perseus/author_detail.jsp?id=000703
This book is my time-machine
Cheers:
Doc.S
:viking:
gladius said:
you know what, i don't have time and energe to play word game with you, explain everything to you, list every thing CNN have done to show you. Big threat, small threat, or whatever, if you examine the history aspects, you will find these two countries have too many common interests to be calling eachother that.
i just want to point out this one you siad: "Thirdly what even though Tawain may have nothing to do with US security, neither does Tawain have to do with China's security. It could still go on existing without Taiwan, so you really got no point here."
i can tell you in plain English, if taiwan goes independence, china will 100% face political melt down, further threatening the gobal economy, sercurity, and we are talking about 1/5 world population here, could be easily to go out of hand, simply a disaser. Would you even want to let it happen? that's how serious the situation is and how important it to china's sercurity! that's how serious it is! Does it can do the same to US? I think not. Just showed how little you know about china and the situation. No one can paint themselves good in this trouble water, we are in the same boat here, just have to deal with it sooner of later.
MadeInChina
Active member
well let me ask you this??? if taiwan was authortian and ruled with a hard boot, would us support them??
totally, you guys are so over ur heads here, k-19 is respecting your responses with good answers with no generalizations or stereotypes while ur overiding your statements with them.. a sad day in this forum indeed
it doesnt matter if taiwan is democratic, it doesnt matter whether nobody lives on there or not, the point is us is just trying to cut off taiwan from mother china, such is just imperalism
if you ask me, the non-existent threat is from the unitedstates, not chian, this forum should be called something else
totally, you guys are so over ur heads here, k-19 is respecting your responses with good answers with no generalizations or stereotypes while ur overiding your statements with them.. a sad day in this forum indeed
it doesnt matter if taiwan is democratic, it doesnt matter whether nobody lives on there or not, the point is us is just trying to cut off taiwan from mother china, such is just imperalism
if you ask me, the non-existent threat is from the unitedstates, not chian, this forum should be called something else
CABAL
Active member
k19 said:
Gladius, as K19 have stated above, it appears to me that your arguments does not exert any basic knowledge about this issue. It's time to be a bit more rational and FAIR about this topic, so please do not mention anything else about Propaganda or Taiwan. When involved in a political discussion, it's important to consider the other factor of the entire debate.
In my view, although China does have very strong ambitions that alert other nations as well, yes I do believe that statement is over-stated. I understand that the CCP does not want to risk any military confrontation with neighboring countries that will surely compromise commercial relations and the overall global image of China.
You still have to remember that the basic definition of a threat and a competition,in terms of politics, is totally different. And I believe that the US analysts and commentors judging China as a major threat did not use the proper word to describe the issue.
I think it should be simply put it as a major competitor.
Missileer
Active member
03USMC said:
Very true. I remember Kruschev banging his shoe on the table and telling us the Soviet Union would bury us, the US. As far as I'm concerned he was voicing the opinion of all Communist Nations and nothing has changed to make me believe otherwise. "Trust but verify".
CABAL
Active member
Missileer said:
The Soviet Union does not speak for every communist nation in the world nor represent every communist type government, especially Vietnam and China. Chinese Communism and Soviet Communism have very different approaches and ideologies which was the primary base that resulted border disputes between the two and the fact that China was targetted by the Soviet Union.
Whispering Death
Active member
True, Cabal, but by the same token I don't recall China saying "well, we don't plan on burying the U.S." and considering their rather trecherous history in US-Chinese relations (last 2 years of the Korean war in particular) I don't think there are many in the US who are willing to give China the bennefit of the doubt.
k19 said:
For the third time this is not about CNN but about the original article being one sided propaganda, thats in plain english. Again there is no major threat but to say that it is completely non-existent is pure propaganda.
Also in plain english if a more powerful non-democratic country wants to take over a less powerful democratic country then that could be considered a threat.
The fact that you're not impressed with democracy and could care less about it, which is porbably the same attitude that China take to this leads me to believe that in fact this could be a threat.
The only reason China would melt down if Taiwan declares independence is because China makes it so. They have spewed propaganda over the years offering no other ways to back out of it that they have dug themselves in a hole, in order to save face. Which you very well know if they have not done this then they would such as predicament. So who's the one listening propaganda, eh?
Cabal said:
You need to read as well my basis for commenting. It was about the original article which stated that the threat was non-existant. Perhaps you need to learn basic knowledge of what this issue is about.
Wheter the US said China was a major threat is irrelevant, the fact that the writer said the treat is non existent is pure baloney.
You yourself said;
Although thew threat is not major, "non-existant" it is not.
They are still a powerful non-democratic nation, whose actions may cause less powerful democratic nations to feel pressure. This may not threaten the US, but other countries may feel threatened.
Taiwan may feel threatened = threat
Japan may feel threaten = threat
MadeInChina
Active member
lol, the non-exisitent threat is the threat of us invading/china for taking back her lland from rebels, thats it
You, can see me, not impressed by democracy? Dude, the only thing you know you have is “democracy”! Sitting on a comfort chair and have a beer on hand and having your democracy talk, you just only know you have it; you don’t know how to feel not having it! Well, I DO! Do I want democracy? Hell Yes! Does china need more democracy? Hell yes! Do I want your democracy? No, it’s not mine; it won’t work properly on my country! Yea, sure, how nice to see Iraq have their election, blah blah, what about Russia? Do I want to follow their step, sudden death? Of course not! And on what level have you know about china’s democracy? None! Who told you communist system can’t have democracy?! Don’t you impress me with your democracy, and don’t you judge my democracy by your standard!
If a government is responsible to their 1.3 billion people and the world, a government does not stop reform to be free; it’s a good government no matter what type it is. If anti-communism was that important to you, why did US aid china to against USSR? Cold war is ended man, time to go on! Drop that cold war stuff, having system difference is my problem, not yours! In fact, we were the only large country fought with communist Russia once and having problems with our different believes.
We don’t threaten Taiwan because of they were democratic, we don’t threaten them because they were not willing to unite yet, we threaten them is because they want to change the peaceful situation we are having right now! History can not go reverse, whatever you say, we can’t erase what we have in our mind, which we truly believed in, no matter it was taught or deeply from root, and it is what we have to be responsible for the history that is written on this day! We have lived in peace in decades, the peace must go on.
If Palestinian and Israeli leaders can shake hands when American president make them too, we surely can see the same picture here one day, and the US surely have that ability to do so. How would that be a threatening situation to the US if you can actively engage and solve it peacefully anyway? If you were worrying a bomb could land in your door step, that’s called been threatened, just like our Chinese from both sides somehow worried about everyday and you just don’t have the “luxury” to feel that.
Opinion and propaganda are two different things, it is that simple. In fact, you refer to other’s opinion as propaganda, then I took your standard of judging, saying the American media is also propaganda, in fact, I explained it right in the next post, Clearfield that what I mean is American media is out of controlled, in your word, also extremely one sided. I read your post clearly, and responded it clearly also.
If a government is responsible to their 1.3 billion people and the world, a government does not stop reform to be free; it’s a good government no matter what type it is. If anti-communism was that important to you, why did US aid china to against USSR? Cold war is ended man, time to go on! Drop that cold war stuff, having system difference is my problem, not yours! In fact, we were the only large country fought with communist Russia once and having problems with our different believes.
We don’t threaten Taiwan because of they were democratic, we don’t threaten them because they were not willing to unite yet, we threaten them is because they want to change the peaceful situation we are having right now! History can not go reverse, whatever you say, we can’t erase what we have in our mind, which we truly believed in, no matter it was taught or deeply from root, and it is what we have to be responsible for the history that is written on this day! We have lived in peace in decades, the peace must go on.
If Palestinian and Israeli leaders can shake hands when American president make them too, we surely can see the same picture here one day, and the US surely have that ability to do so. How would that be a threatening situation to the US if you can actively engage and solve it peacefully anyway? If you were worrying a bomb could land in your door step, that’s called been threatened, just like our Chinese from both sides somehow worried about everyday and you just don’t have the “luxury” to feel that.
Opinion and propaganda are two different things, it is that simple. In fact, you refer to other’s opinion as propaganda, then I took your standard of judging, saying the American media is also propaganda, in fact, I explained it right in the next post, Clearfield that what I mean is American media is out of controlled, in your word, also extremely one sided. I read your post clearly, and responded it clearly also.
When China becomes a real democracy then it will be a non-existent threat. In the meantime it is not.
You're going on and blah, blah, blah about this and that, when the topic was if China is a non-existent threat or not.
The fact that you go on and on about Tawian, when it is against the wishes of most Taiwanese to unite under a non-democratic state proves right there that China is a threat.
When opinion is presented as fact it becomes propaganda. You state that American news is propaganda when you listen to the BBC which is already getting alot of flack for their biasness.
Not to metion you're willingness to go along with China's belief that it will melt down if Taiwan declares independence shows me that you are the one going along with propaganda.
What if taiwan declares formal independence, which is only a matter of writting on paper (they are already independent), will the factories in China all of a sudden blow up at once?
Where is this melt down going to come from, nothing but Beijing's instance that it will, which stems from absolute propaganda, which you are so willing to go along with.
The issue here is not all that mumbo jumbo you are going on about, cold war ect, but having a large powerful non-democratic country forcing it way onto other less powerful democratic therein lies the threat.
As far as China not being a threat, spare me that, and go tell that to the Tibetans.
You're going on and blah, blah, blah about this and that, when the topic was if China is a non-existent threat or not.
The fact that you go on and on about Tawian, when it is against the wishes of most Taiwanese to unite under a non-democratic state proves right there that China is a threat.
When opinion is presented as fact it becomes propaganda. You state that American news is propaganda when you listen to the BBC which is already getting alot of flack for their biasness.
Not to metion you're willingness to go along with China's belief that it will melt down if Taiwan declares independence shows me that you are the one going along with propaganda.
What if taiwan declares formal independence, which is only a matter of writting on paper (they are already independent), will the factories in China all of a sudden blow up at once?
Where is this melt down going to come from, nothing but Beijing's instance that it will, which stems from absolute propaganda, which you are so willing to go along with.
The issue here is not all that mumbo jumbo you are going on about, cold war ect, but having a large powerful non-democratic country forcing it way onto other less powerful democratic therein lies the threat.
As far as China not being a threat, spare me that, and go tell that to the Tibetans.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Here in Korea, a Chinese threat is very, very real.