understanding between china and india

Well guys...

it was shame the cnflict happened. Human lives lost, so let it go. What is the point of arguing who is the best came out of the war at this point, not China, not India. Mistakes made, just correct them.

It is time to heal between China and India. Thundergod had a good post. Lets leave it like that.
 
k19 said:
hey man, since when you start post stuff here lemontree, hehe. happy to see you here, if you are the "lemontree" i knew about....

intense fight about 62 war again ah, what a story to talk about.

you know what guys, lemontree's is opinion is something we should read about, learn from, might not totally agree, but, take it as an perspective, banifits everyone.
Click to expand...
Hi k19,
I am the same 'lemontree', and I appreciate the respect that you have for my views.
To tell you the truth, I am a student of history and wanted to dig up as much as I could from international sources about the reasons of the conflict. I am aware that a lot of stuff posted by the govt. are half-truths. The political follies are hidden (from the people) which drove the nation to war that the army was not prepared for.
There is a misconception amonsgt many Indians and forigners about how the Indian army fought the '62 war. The debacle in Tawang is generally quoted, ignoring the stiff resistance in Ladhak and Walong sectors.
I for one have found many loopholes in claims made by both India and China. Basically since the sector being claimed was historically a no-mans land due to its inhospitable geographical and climatic conditions.
There is a growing need to put out the resentment caused by the 43 yr old war between the two nations. I for one believe that there are more chances for Indian and Chinese harmony, than Indo-Pak relations.
 
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2005/3207china_india.html


China and India Aim
To Extend Cooperation
by Ramtanu Maitra

The first-ever strategic talks between India and China, which took place in New Delhi on Jan. 24-25, were the outcome of years of efforts by these two largest Asian nations "to take bilateral engagements into a long-term and strategic relationship." Chinese Vice-Minister of Foreign Affairs Wu Dawei, who is also involved in the six-party talks on North Korea's nuclear program, and Indian Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran raised hopes that the two would begin to position their bilateral relations in the context of broader regional and global perspectives.

One of the most important outcomes which emerged from the dialogue is the expressed concern of China about deteriorating U.S.-Iranian relations, triggered by U.S. insistence that Iran's nuclear fuel enrichment program is a cover for developing weapons of mass destruction. Wu Dawei made clear that Beijing is pressing Moscow, Paris, and Berlin to take steps to prevent any U.S. hostility against Iran, saying that China is willing to mediate with the United States and the West about Iran's nuclear program. New Delhi urged the Chinese Vice-Minister to impress upon Pakistan not to open its air space to the U.S. Air Force, in case Washington plans air strikes on Iran.

Regional Cooperation
In early December, to prepare the grounds for the strategic talks, a seminar was held at the Institute for Peace and Conflict Studies (IPCS) in New Delhi. Zhang Guihong, the deputy director of the Institute of International Studies, at Zhejiang University in Hangzhou, pointed out that China and India could play a major role in regional affairs. He grouped China and India with Pakistan (nuclear), Japan (economic), Russia (multipolar), and United States (strategic) to form respective triangles, to basically affirm the two countries' important place in the world. He also grouped the two with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) and Central Asia, to discuss the benefits of a triangular relationship.

On Jan. 28, India's Commerce and Industry Minister, Kamal Nath, told the World Economic Forum at Davos, Switzerland that the complementarities between the two nations' economies are in the process of being harnessed, and when that happens, it would result in achieving rapid expansion of bilateral trade and economic ties.

"The India-China two-way trade is now US$1 billion a month, compared to US$1 billion a year a decade ago. This twelve-fold increase in the last decade only goes to prove that though we are competitors in many respects, we are also complementary and supplementary to each other," an official statement said, quoting Kamal Nath. He also pointed out that if one takes ASEAN, China, Japan, Korea, and India together, the size of such an integrated market is that of the European Union in terms of income, and bigger than the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) in terms of trade.

While the credit for identifying India as a potential economic partner should go to former Chinese Prime Minister Zhu Rongji, it is India which recognized China's value as a possible ally in espousing some developmental issues in the World Trade Organization (WTO). The current volume of China-India trade ($12 billion) is of modest proportions by world standards, but the fervor of the new dialogue cannot be missed. A studied Chinese viewpoint is that any "Free Trade Arrangement between China and India in the Information Technology sector will be hard to achieve in the short term," because "competition between the two countries" is considered "inevitable," despite the fact that India's software sector is much superior to China's at this stage.

But beyond the direct trade, definite moves have been made by both—China, in particular-for regional economic development. According to analyst D.S. Rajan, since June 2004, China's Xinjiang Autonomous Region has been promoting a nationwide campaign, aimed at achieving economic integration of Kashgar (Kashi), a town known for its historic role in China's trade along the ancient Silk Road, and eight countries in Central and South Asia: the bordering countries of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, and Kyrgystan, and the other Central Asian republics of Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, and Kazakstan.

Speaking at a seminar in Kashgar on June 29, 2004, the town's deputy party secretary Zong Jian had alleged that the U.S. entry into Central and South Asia following 9/11 under the pretext of fighting terrorism, and the subsequent growth of the influence of forces representing Western powers, posed a serious threat to the security of China's thinly populated Xinjiang province. Arguing that economic factors play a stabilizing role in such situations, Zong pointed out that because of the threats posed by Western encroachment, Xinjiang wants to forge close and mutually beneficial economic relations with the Central, South, and West Asian countries.

On the proposed economic integration of Kashgar with the emerging Central and South Asia economic grouping, no specific policy announcement from Beijing has emerged. One of the reasons perhaps is Kashgar's weak infrastructural facilities. Xinjiang officials have demanded road and air links between Kashgar and neighboring countries, and establishment of entry/exit permit-issuing agencies, as well as visa offices of Central and South Asian countries in that city, to facilitate border trade and attract foreign investment. In addition, they asked for setting up a Central-South-West Asia University in Kashgar, which could train personnel capable of meeting the region's economic development requirements. Some even visualized conversion of Kashgar into a western "Shenzhen," in the long run.

Shenzhen, an island in the south, was the booming export-processing-zone set up by China in the late-1980s. Diplomats in China representing Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, and Kazakstan endorsed the proposal, while taking part in the Kashgar seminars.

Rajan points out that in the South Asian context, the proposal for Kashgar's economic integration with the outside world may be of particular interest to India, which, until the early 1950s, maintained a trade mission in that town. Proposals for an India-Xinjiang land link; a Delhi-Kashgar air route; laying a natural gas pipeline from Xinjiang to India through Ladakh, located in the Indian part of the state of Jammu and Kashmir; and bilateral cooperation in agriculture and food processing, traditional medicine and herbs, energy and oil production, and tourism, were put forward by the Chinese hosts. It is interesting to note that Indian External Affairs Minister Natwar Singh has been invited to visit Xinjiang.

Defense Cooperation
While economic cooperation between the two nations had begun in earnest in the year 2000, the most encouraging recent development is in defense cooperation. In December 2004, India's then-Army chief, Gen. N.C. Vij, during his week-long visit to China, was given a warm welcome. Chinese state media reported that during his visit, China and India agreed to deepen defense cooperation: a sign of warming relations between the giant neighbors and former foes. Vij capped his visit to China, the first by an Indian Army chief in a decade, with talks with his counterpart, Liang Guanglie, and Defense Minister Cao Gangchuan. Cao told the Indian general that "China would like to step up its cooperation with India in the defense and security sector and advance the bilateral military ties to a higher level," Xinhua reported. China and India held their first-ever joint military exercises in March, and Vij said India may invite Chinese officers to observe its military drills.

The Indian general's trip to China was the outcome of a high-profile visit to India by Defense Minister Cao Gangchuan from March 26-30, 2004, and the first meeting of the newly formed Sino-Indian Joint Study Group (JSG) on Trade and Economic Cooperation in Beijing on March 22-23.

In a broader sense, the latest phase of growing trust in China-India relations can be traced to the success of the visit to China by Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee in June 2003. The dialogue on the boundary dispute, at the level of Special Representatives, and the JSG process can be directly linked to the results of Vajpayee's talks with Hu Jintao, Wen Jiabao, and Jiang Zemin, former Chinese President and chairman of the Central Military Commission of the Chinese Communist Party and the government.

While the Chinese Defense Minister's visit to India, the first in nearly a decade, can also be seen in the same light, Cao Gangchuan's agenda had much to do with the process initiated during Indian Defense Minister George Fernandes's visit to Beijing in April 2003. Fernandes had on that occasion proposed joint naval exercises, in an effort to allay some of China's suspicions about India's intentions in its neighborhood. The first such exercise, a confidence-building measure (CBM), has already taken place. For the Chinese Navy, the exercise involving India in late 2003 was only the second CBM with any country (the first was with Pakistan).

It was Defense Ministers Cao and Fernandes who agreed in New Delhi, on March 29, 2004, that the two countries would grant each other the status of an observer during their respective military exercises involving other powers. That is considered a very definite step forward in establishing mutual trust.

Continuing Irritants
There is little doubt that China and India have come a long way in restoring their tattered relationship in the wake of the May 1998 Indian nuclear tests (Pokhran II). India's testing of nuclear weapons then caused a frosty chill on the bilateral front, mainly on account of the manner in which the Indian leaders had portrayed China as the critical factor in New Delhi's decision to become a "nuclear power." Beijing's interpretation of India's justifications of its nuclear tests was no less a contributing factor. Soon after Pokhran II, Beijing made no secret of its view that India was seeking to emerge as a "regional hegemon," bent upon pursuing a policy of "containment" of China.

Despite the remarkable improvements in bilateral relations, serious obstacles remain. These include the unresolved boundary issue, Tibet, and the Sino-Pakistan nexus. The boundary issue involves more than 125,000 square kilometers in disputed territories. According to observers, for some time, the discussions on the boundary issue have been put on the back burner. This could well have been the right approach to build an atmosphere conducive for dealing with this contentious issue. But at the same time, both sides seem to realize that the issue remains a festering sore, liable to erupt at the slightest provocation. On the other hand, the Tibet issue is becoming less of an irritant, since the former Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee, during his 2003 China visit, made clear that Tibet is a part of China. Still, India's hosting of the Dalai Lama, his entourage, and 120,000 Tibetan refugees, including the titular heads of two major Tibetan-Buddhist sects, is eyed by some in China with considerable suspicion. At the same time, there are some tentative signs of improvement in Beijing's relations vis-à-vis the exiled Tibetans abroad, following the recent initiation of dialogue between the Dalai Lama's emissaries and Beijing.

Perhaps the most explosive issue in bilateral relations is China's strategic relationship with Pakistan. India continues to fret about China's alleged nuclear and missile assistance to Pakistan. According to Western diplomatic sources, Beijing had conveyed to Washington years ago that Pakistan's strategic value to China in the South Asian context was comparable to Israel's critical relevance to the United States in the West Asian context.

The China-Pakistan relationship predates Beijing's contact with India's other neighbors, and goes back to the early 1960s. About 80% of Pakistan's Armed Forces are armed with Chinese equipment, as are 60% of its military aircraft. This long-standing relationship continues, and the changed Sino-Indian relations are unlikely to change it in the near future.

There are indications, however, that Beijing, having joined the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), is in the process of diminishing its nuclear relationship with Islamabad. Answering a question from the floor at the IPCS seminar in New Delhi, Zhang Guihong pointed out that China's relationship with Pakistan in the future would be limited to economic and military matters. In addition, while China maintains its military contacts with Pakistan, it has begun to distance itself politically from Pakistan; it no longer gives Pakistan unconditional support in Pakistan's dispute with India over Kashmir, but urges discussion and moderation.
Click to expand...
 
lemontree said:
k19 said:
hey man, since when you start post stuff here lemontree, hehe. happy to see you here, if you are the "lemontree" i knew about....

intense fight about 62 war again ah, what a story to talk about.

you know what guys, lemontree's is opinion is something we should read about, learn from, might not totally agree, but, take it as an perspective, banifits everyone.
Click to expand...
Hi k19,
I am the same 'lemontree', and I appreciate the respect that you have for my views.
To tell you the truth, I am a student of history and wanted to dig up as much as I could from international sources about the reasons of the conflict. I am aware that a lot of stuff posted by the govt. are half-truths. The political follies are hidden (from the people) which drove the nation to war that the army was not prepared for.
There is a misconception amonsgt many Indians and forigners about how the Indian army fought the '62 war. The debacle in Tawang is generally quoted, ignoring the stiff resistance in Ladhak and Walong sectors.
I for one have found many loopholes in claims made by both India and China. Basically since the sector being claimed was historically a no-mans land due to its inhospitable geographical and climatic conditions.
There is a growing need to put out the resentment caused by the 43 yr old war between the two nations. I for one believe that there are more chances for Indian and Chinese harmony, than Indo-Pak relations.
Click to expand...

look the BBC poll man, i am happy to see the progress. you have seen my post in other site, does prove that i am for one, also interested in this matter hehe.
 
pakistan ppl dont like indians very much right?

found this in their forum

Today's India and China

India has total of 28 million cellular users as of the end of 2003 and 18 million new users were added in 2003. See
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2004/0...10700710700.htm
China has total of 270 million cellular users as of the end of 2003 and around 60 million new users were added in the same year. See:
http://www1.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-...tent_259693.htm (the news in 08/2003)
China cell phone users reached 334 million at the end of 2004 and around 65 million new users were added in 2004. see: http://www.simmtester.com/page/news/shownews.asp?num=7689

Internet users in India at the end of 2003: More than 16 million: see: http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats3.htm
Internet users in China at the end of 2003: 78million. See: http://www.clickz.com/stats/big_picture/ge...hp/5911_3300411
Internet users in China at the end of 2004: 94 million see:
http://www.internetworldstats.com/articles/art045.htm

Broadband users in China at the end of 2003:17.4 million. see: http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/01/16/...ecommunications
Broadband users in China at the end of 2004:43 million. see:
http://www.itfacts.biz/index.php?id=P2502

Boroadband users in India: I believe it can be ignored. On Nov. 3, 2003, it was reported India only had 75000 broadband users and will not be more than 210000 by 2007. See: http://www.itfacts.biz/index.php?id=P275

only 32% of Indian families have TV. See: http://zdnet.com.com/5208-1105-0.html?foru...=21529&start=-1

Less than 28 million tons of iron and steel was used in 2003 in India (An important index of infrastructure construction. This is the total India produced in 2003, and India is a net iron & steel exporter)(This is even less than what China produced in 1978 when China began its reform)
China produced around 225 million tons of iron and steel and imported other 35 million tons in 2003 for the construction. China used more iron and steel than Us and Japs combined.
See: http://www.worldsteel.org/media/wsif/wsif2003.pdf
China produced 272.5 million tons of iron and steel in 2004. See: http://www.worldsteel.org/news77_largest_cts.php
From the same link, India produced 32.6 million tons.
It was reported that China used 300 million tons of iron and steelin 2004.

55% of the world cement (Another infrastructure construction index) was used in China. See http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=2446908

China's expressway (at least 4 lanes, speed limit 100KM/hour or 120KM/hour) reaches 30, 000KM. Around 4, 600 KM is being added each year. See: http://english.sinocp.com/News/news040229.htm
India just began its first expressway project in 2003: See: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/46698000.cms
By the end of 2004, 34,000 km of expressway have been in use in China. See:
http://english.sina.com/china/1/2005/0113/17465.html

Railroad: In 1949, there were only 21,800 km of railway lines in China, with only 11,000 km opened to traffic. See: http://www.macrochina.com.cn/english/china...412000136.shtml
As of the end of 2004, China had 74, 000KM of railroad with much better quality. See: http://english.people.com.cn/200501/26/eng...126_171976.html
India had total of about 55,000 km Railroad in 1951. See: http://irfca.org/faq/faq-history4.html
But India has less railroad than China now.

India produced around 36 million tons of oil (A natural resource index) in 2003 and will face the resource problem soon.
China produced 160 million tons of oil in 2003 and imported more than 100 million tons in the same year.

Around 30% of Indian male cannot read newspaper and 50% of female cannot read. that means around 40% of Indians cannot read. See
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ch.html
Less than 16% of Chinese cannot read (most of are old person and they missed the education opportunity in the old time). See
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/in.html

India has more arable land than China. Indian produced 250 million tons of grains in 2003 (Thanks for the good weather).
China usually produces 450 million tons of grains each year no matter how tough the weather is (record is more than 500 million tons)(Thanks for the biotech in China).

GDP in 2003
China 1409.852 billion US$
India 598.966 billion US$
See link: http://www.worldbank.org/data/databytopic/GDP.pdf
If based on purchase power (PPP)
China: 6435.838 billion US$
India: 3096.239 Billion US$
see link: http://www.worldbank.org/data/databytopic/GDP_PPP.pdf

Economy sectors:
China: Argriculture: 15% of GDP, Industry 52% of GDP, Manufacturing 35% of GDP, service 33% In 2001
India: Argriculture: 24% of GDP, Industry 27% of GDP, Manufacturing 16% of GDP, service 48% In 2001
These data comes from World Bank. You can conclude that China's industry size is at least 4 times of India's after a very simple calculation. You can see how little India's industry is.
China's industry increased 16.8% in 2003. See: http://www.cet.com.cn/20040220/SPECIAL/200402201.htm
India's increased about 8%.

Speaking of the software industry, China's software industry is the similar size of India. The difference is that Chinese companies rely on domestic market while India has almost no IT market comparing with the big countries around. China has its own software brands such as KingSoft, Rising(anti-virus), Jiangming (Anti-virus), RedFlag(Working on Linux), WPS ( office software), Yongyou(Enterprise), KINGDEE (Golden Butterfly in Chinese) ( Enterprise), Shanda (Games).
Please see the top programmer comptetion ranked by countries, India, the so-called the second IT superpower, was listed as No. 19: http://www.topcoder.com/stat?c=country_avg_rating


Only 2.3 million PCs were sold in India in 2003. See: http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20031230S0003
and There were only 10 million PC in India as reported in April, 2004. See: http://infotech.indiatimes.com/articleshow/612158.cms
Indian PC sales hit 3.4 million in 2004 in the so-called the second IT superpower. See: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1023060.cms
More that 13 million of PCs were sold in China in 2003. See: http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040212/tech_china_pcs_1.html
Chinese PC sales rose 19 per cent to 16 million units in 2004. See: http://www.agencyfaqs.com/media/new_media/ice_news/934.html

International trade in 2003
China topped 840B$ (import < export) in 2003. See: http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200312/2...29_131412.shtml
India: total of 154B$ (export 74B$, import: 80b$, import > export)in 2003. See: http://www.navhindtimes.com/stories.php?pa...Story_ID=022829

Speaking of the technology, Let's compare the super computer because Indians are always claiming India is the second IT country in the world.
China's homemade supercomputer listed as No. 14. But the fastest one used in India is No. 105. It was made by IBM. India's homemade one is listed as No. 258. Legend (now Lenova) built another more powerful one this year. It can be listed as No. 3 or No. 4. See http://www.top500.org/list/2003/11/

Thanks for the large market scale and the recent progress in the technology, China is trying to set the international or national technology standards, such as TD-SCDMA, EVD, WAPI, AVS, RFID. We know the standard can make more and easier money than the simple production and present the development level of technilogy in one contry.

Total revenue of Wipro(around 1.17B$) and Infosys (0.97B$) in 2003 = the half of Huawei (more than 4.5B$)or ZTE around 4.0b$)
Wipro and Infosys represents India's technology. AS I know Wipro is a conglomerates, not a pure tech company as Huawei and ZTE.
Huawei's revenue in 2004 reached $5.58billion.
http://itresearch.forbes.com/detail/RES/1105976948_88.html
Wirpo: $1.34B in 2004, see: http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/61/61520.html
InfoSys: $1.06B in 2004, see: http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/56/56487.html

China's IC industry is making great leap in recent years. China uses about 13% of the ICs in the world and will be one of the top IC producers in 2010.
http://english.people.com.cn/200410/27/eng...027_161765.html
http://www.taiwan-china-outlook.com/presentations/smic.pdf
http://www.eet.com/semi/news/showArticle.j...icleId=60405079

Even Indians claim India is a democratic country. But its corruption is worse than China. China government is treating the corruption issue very seriously in recent years. see
http://www.globalcorruptionreport.org/down...nd_research.pdf
Another research report said India's corruption is much worse than China too: http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/topstorie...,238369,00.html
Do you believe Democracy works in India?

See this report, Mumbai wants to catch up Shanghai at the cost of poor which is 60% of the residents in Mumbai. See the link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly...1487253,00.html
60% poor people cannot beat 40% rich people. It is not democracy, it is democrazy. It can only be considersed as illegal or wrong-doing in China. But if you read the comments after the news, few think about the poor. See the comments: http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=40309
Also please see the pityful poor India after their slums were destroyed by democrazy indian government: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pict...less/html/1.stm

Human Rights in India? see here: 3000 farmers commited suicide in a 11million farming area in one year. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3855517.stm
Suicide rate for women is as high as 148 per 100,000, and 58 per 100,000 for men in in Tamil Nadu. http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/apr/15spec.htm
At least 5% of Mumbai's people live on the roads, and 2% are simply nomads. Another 2.5 million people live in dilapidated buildings which have been officially tagged as 'dangerous'. See the report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4222525.stm
Over 12 per cent of disabled women in Orissa have been raped and 25 per cent of those mentally challenged have been sexually assaulted in the state. Isn't that horrible? See: http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=42099
I bet Indians should work these out before they speak out the democracy and freedom and human rights.

Chinese culture is much more open than India’s. See the trouble That MacDonald’s, KFC and Coca Cola are suffering:
http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=19571
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/...ndia.mcdonalds/
See the Macdonads’s Business in China:
http://breaking.tcm.ie/2004/02/26/story135939.html

These two articles were written by the same foreign visitor (sounds like a biz man) after he visited both India and China in the same year (2000).
His view about India: http://berclo.net/page00/00en-impressions-india.html
His impression about China: http://berclo.net/page00/00en-impressions-china.html
He also described so-called Indian democracy in this article: http://berclo.net/page00/00en-india-1.html
"India is said to be the world's largest democracy. There is no dispute about its size, one billion is large, but I don't think that a country whose major priorities in the last 50 years have favored a small minority at the expense of the majority can be called "a democracy". "

Life quality: (See the CIA links above)
Indian Infant mortality rate :
Total: 59.59 deaths/1,000 live births
Female: 58.93 deaths/1,000 live births (2003 est.)
Male: 60.23 deaths/1,000 live births

Chinese Infant mortality rate:
Total: 25.26 deaths/1,000 live births
Female: 25.65 deaths/1,000 live births (2003 est.)
Male: 24.91 deaths/1,000 live births

Indian Life expectancy at birth:
Total population: 63.62 years
Male: 62.92 years
Female: 64.37 years (2003 est.)

Chinese Life expectancy at birth:
Total population: 72.22 years
Male: 70.33 years
Female: 74.28 years (2003 est.)

Sports:
The long list of Chinese medal winners at Sydney 2000 Olympic Games: See: http://www.sportorganizer.com/2000sydney/2000sydney16.htm
Let's congratulate to the only one Indian winner in 2000: See: http://www.sportorganizer.com/2000sydney/2000sydney34.htm
2004 Olympics in Athens, Please look for China from the top of the list and India from the bottom:
http://www.athens2004.com/en/OlympicMedals/medals

AIDS
India has about 10 million HIV infected people. Indian Government admits 4.5 million as of August 2003. See; http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/july-d...iaaids_8-6.html
China has more than one million as reported by BBC: See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3041214.stm

46% of general population in Bombay carry an active sexually transmitted disease (the greatest risk factor for HIV spread). Do you believe it? See: http://www.globalchange.com/indi.htm]http://www.globalchange.com/indi.htm

Aid from outside:
China got aid from Soviet Union between late 50s to the beginning of t 60s. After that China develops on itself. India has been aided by both western countries and Soviet Union for a long time. See the link:
http://www.usaid.gov/in/UsaidInIndia/history.htm
You cannot imagine, What should India be without this aids.
China has been helping many other countries too. That's why most of Africa countries like China so much.

Religion Issues in India: http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/...hya.background/

Foreign reserve and the external debt:
India's forex reserve < external debt
India has 100B$ reserve, See: http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/12-22-03.htm
and India has more than 112B$ in debt in the end of 2003. See: http://www.finmin.nic.in/the_ministry/dept...xdbtrep2004.pdf
China has more than 400B$ reserve. See: http://www.china.org.cn/e-company/04-02-20/page031222.htm
China has 160B$ external debt. Reserve >> debt


Some more links:
India asks how its economy can catch up with China's
http://www.forbes.com/home_europe/newswire...rtr1154472.html

India Versus Chin-- Was written by some Indians
http://www.samachar.com/tech/archives/techtalk51.html

Can India Catch-Up With China? -- Was written by some Indians
http://www.indiadefence.com/ind-china.htm

The Population Bomb that can devastate India, actually it is a comparison between India and China
http://www.india-watch.com/4.htm

Can India catch up with China?
http://www.flonnet.com/fl1715/17150480.htm

Can India Overtake China ? -- The famous article saying India will overtake China
http://www.alternatives.ca/article1053.html

Data show that China developed much faster than India even before China's reform. India was much better than China before the Chinese Communist Party took power. But China's GDP caught up India in 70s last century.
GDP Per capita ( I believe it is based on PPP)
Country...1820....1870....1913....1950....1973...1998
China.......600......530......552......439......839....3,117
India........533......533......673......619......853....1,746
http://www.eh.net/encyclopedia/steckel.sta...d.living.us.php
http://www.eco.rug.nl/~Maddison/ (more details)

India's economic grows at average 6% GDP vs. China's grows at 9% for last 2 decades.
India has 2 times faster population grow that the same time(1.7 vs. China 0.8%).
http://devdata.worldbank.org/external/CPPr...=China&PTYPE=CP
http://devdata.worldbank.org/external/CPPr...=India&PTYPE=CP

China won 32 golds in Olympic, India got NONE gold

In China, there is no space for the discrimination against other domestic ethnic groups. Women are enjoying the equal rights. Chinese minorities often have more rights or privileges than Han people. Can Indians say this?

Many people say India has a good social system. Does it work? In early days (40s), India was in much better position than China in all-economical aspect. Now?

The above links come from various resources. I collect these data to show the facts to people because I have heard too much on the Internet and magazines that say: India is better than China...India has more potential than China.... blah, blah.... blah, let alone that some important, high rank Indian officials say: Our missile can reach ...part of China,...China is the biggest threat to India. Many of this kind of boring, disgusting noise against China in the international community comes from India or is written by Indian.

I wish Indian people can enjoy their good life and make progress. But I don't like India’s boasting by denouncing another country, especially China, basing on no facts.

Have you Indian heard that Chinese government or Chinese news saying: India is our enemy or we are better than India. No such things at all. What we can hear often is that: India is doing better than us in IT service. We never say that our missiles can hit India either even ours can reach any corner on the Earth long time ago, let alone the neighboring India.

China is a large developing country. She has a lot of issues today and future. Our Chinese mentality is: Do it harder because we are behind (of course, not behind India), do it now because we cannot wait. We are always trying to find things that other countries are doing better than us, and trying hard to make up the gap.
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whats your point in posting what you posted above in here ? ..are you the same sexybeast who was banned earlier from these boards
 
woah, after reading all that im convinced about many things

however, i still believe trading between the 2 countries is beneficial more than anything else :lol:
 
lemontree some ppl (who don't even live in their country :lol:) just won't change, don't have much knowledge and always looking for inciting fights, better to iggy them and keep discussing with those who are actually worth the time ;) .
 
Could you elaborate please.
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its pretty simple for anyone to understand, economy between the two growing giants is benefitcial for all, rather than fighting, lets turn to whats best for ourselves and develop our trading even better

unless offcourse, u guys are highlyegotisticalradicalnationlists who are even willing to bash that comment, then i will feel there is no use in this thread
 
Mech said:
unless offcourse, u guys are highlyegotisticalradicalnationlists who are even willing to bash that comment, then i will feel there is no use in this thread
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The "highlyegotisticalradicalnationlists" is your assumption not mine.
I asked that question due to this comment below..
woah, after reading all that im convinced about many things
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What are the things you are convinced about?...Its a simple question, don't get rabid with assumptions.
China is a member of the big 5 UNSC club, not India. China has to maintain its economic equlibrium to remain in that sphere. There is no such pressure on India, so comparing China and India with such statictics is silly. It would be better to compare those figure with of China with say UK, USA, France, or Russia which are member of the big 5 along with China.
 
lemontree...

I agree with your comments.

I would like to ask why India is not in UNSC club since India's potential with its market growth. I know I can search the web for it but I got to work and lazy.
 
Re: lemontree...

Boobies said:
I agree with your comments.

I would like to ask why India is not in UNSC club since India's potential with its market growth. I know I can search the web for it but I got to work and lazy.
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US Policy.

Russia, U.K., France and China support India's candidature.Unless US agrees to it or US comes under pressure due to some things , India won't be in..
 
Boobies,
What good is the UNSC today?...
I would prefer if India became a member of the G-8 group. India has miles to go in the sphere of education, healthcare, irrigation/agriculture and infrastructure. Far too much of time is wasted by the political groups to ensure their survival in power than in development work.
Both India and China have their strengths and weaknesses, as neighbouring states we need to complement our strengths to help development. Chinese industry has many lessons for Indians and Indians have a lot to give in terms of knowledge.
 
Lemon...

No doubt about your opinion. Can you tell me something that China can benefit from India (besides trading) and vice versa?

I am very impressed with Indian tech and math students. They are just amazing in the States. There are a lot of Indian owned companies in Silicon valley.
 
Re: Lemon...

Boobies said:
No doubt about your opinion. Can you tell me something that China can benefit from India (besides trading) and vice versa?
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- China can benifit from the massive pharmaceautical industry in India, and medical research here is one of the best.
- Indian IT training intitutes are already establishing their schools in China, such as NIIT.
- The two large markets in close proximity enable the cost of goods to be lower that those available from say europe or the americas.
- Access to the warm waters via the port of Calcutta.
- India can access hydro-electric power from the various Chinese projects in Tibet.
These are just some that i can rattle off.
 
i don't think India can match with China military might. China is way ahead. India wants equipments from US....they are tried with Russian Technology.
 
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