Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
Once the F-35 is up and running to spec. After the F-35 has fired it payload of missiles there will be no enemy plane to fire back at it. When is the last time an enemy plane has fires back at an any US plane early Vietnam?
When has the United States military faced a first rate trained air force using comparable aircraft since Vietnam?
Even the the NVA Air Force was pushing it. I don't think it wise to put all your eggs in the basket of BVR shoot 1st win 100% always now and forever.
New 4th Generation++ are showing low end front signatures, giving the AMRAAM in certain circumstances a 20% miss envelop. If you have a brand new pilot in year 2020 trained to just hit the fire button from BVR range, what happens when that Sukhoi inverts and that AMRAAM does what we all project it will never do... Miss at least one 2 out 10 times. Also that Flanker can carry more comparable missiles such as the R 77, F 35 has very small payload. And relying on the F 22... A plane out of production now and very fragile despite it's advanced technology is difficult at best. I don't see an F 22 being able to do turnaround combat sorties in any serious conflict for long, the down time will eventually result in F 35's going alone (even if they are completely combat ready ) or with traditional older fighters.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-f-35s-air-to-air-capability-controversy-05089/
Then the upgraded Flanker is within a distance where the "stealth like" attributes of the F 35 are now lost. Sure, a cut rate Air Force with export Flankers with no technical knowledge of long range evasive actions, long range ESM support for friendly aircraft or how to tune long range low frequency radar into a method when combined to help diminish this plane's abilities can be challenged, sure. But one that capitalizes on these methods, well.
(Par one incident in Yugoslavia with older technology on both sides but that has only happened once).
As for the F 16, when it is out of ordnance it is still very maneuverable.
Lessons should teach us. Weapon systems fail, planes get jumped, sometimes the dot on the horizon finds a way to being a blur in front of your canopy.
I just would feel uneasy ever treating this aircraft as any serious agile WVR fighter worth putting our son's and daughter's in.
As for political interference as a problem I feel yes and no... Yes on terms of the Pentagon throwing "One More" design requirement into the program making it more complex and jacking up the cost. And the USMC's instance on that ridiculous VTOL capability that with the Harrier it has never used ONCE as intended via operating from "Lillypads" in any U.S. combat operation. Making it a poorly performing aircraft which could have been accomplished via traditional carrier aircraft in hindsight. But by every single means at that proper Government oversight on cost expenditures as well as where our tax money is going should be handled with extreme care. Dedicated, on sight and offsite long term officials should manage the record books on were that funding is going and Lockheed Martin should be held totally responsible both financially and officially for any unnecessary overruns.
Also may I remind my fellow tax payers, we are developing this aircraft for our allies too, even the one's who are considering pulling out on solely U.S. tax dollars. That's right, regardless if the world buys it or not we pay.
I also don't see how applying new stealth coating mixtures in the future will keep pace with possible future breakthroughs in detection in the long term. Who knows who will win that race. Aircraft designer or Radar Designer?
I watch the developments of foreign aircraft with great interest out of a growing concern that this airframe may one day face an opposition that is not as "sub par" as we all gloat they will be. Nor that we will find ourselves "generations ahead" in a period of financial turmoil here in the U.S.
Both out of concern of this program maybe one day being a total flop and U.S. lives in danger, but also compromising our national security abroad. That is where my concern lies.
But Lockheed, By all means, massive advertising budget aside and borderline intimidation to some past test pilots aside, Indulge me .
As for Mr. VDKMS. Thank you for your counter points. I enjoy our debates on various topics and feel it healthy to share respectful and thoughtful dialogue here along with others.