Big_Z
MilForum Recon
I think his problem is that a person who has probably never put there hands on a rifle is making off the wall assumptions about a rifle.
tunisian soldier with steyr AUG
I think his problem is that a person who has probably never put there hands on a rifle is making off the wall assumptions about a rifle.
So? ... Honestly, so what?
If a magazine is damaged by a hit, cant it make a gun jam? I think that these are good questions to ask...
And Spartan is a retarded person. Someday, life will put him in his place. Only a crazy society would accept such arrogant fool, just you wait...
And I already did put my hands on a rifle, doesnt make me an expert neither... Where I live, people are considered nut jobs when they possess a hunting rifle... And the few who know something about guns speak a lot...
I remember someone making comments on the triggers on Bullpup weapons, but I dont even have the slightest idea about what he was talking about, so I dont bring it into the discussion.
And how sturdy is a magazine? And can a gun work correctly with a damaged magazine? If not, then my "assumption" isnt that bad. And Spartan should go back to the wild to live with animals, where he belongs, and I hope they accept him someday, because he is not very polite...
And by the way, it wasnt an assumption:
Read carefully:
So keep sucking each others everything the other douche is being a jerk for free...
If a magazine is damaged by a hit, cant it make a gun jam? I think that these are good questions to ask...
And Spartan is a retarded person. Someday, life will put him in his place. Only a crazy society would accept such arrogant fool, just you wait...
And I already did put my hands on a rifle, doesnt make me an expert neither... Where I live, people are considered nut jobs when they possess a hunting rifle... And the few who know something about guns speak a lot...
I remember someone making comments on the triggers on Bullpup weapons, but I dont even have the slightest idea about what he was talking about, so I dont bring it into the discussion.
And how sturdy is a magazine? And can a gun work correctly with a damaged magazine? If not, then my "assumption" isnt that bad. And Spartan should go back to the wild to live with animals, where he belongs, and I hope they accept him someday, because he is not very polite...
And by the way, it wasnt an assumption:
Read carefully:
You see this part? It means something...
So keep sucking each others everything the other douche is being a jerk for free...
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Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
Man please don't do that,
It's not that complicated, if you don't know something you don't know, so do the next best thing, seek knowledge from good sources, and your talking to some really good sources.
Easy as pie, theres no secret moral lesson here....:roll:
Yo,
It's not that complicated, if you don't know something you don't know, so do the next best thing, seek knowledge from good sources, and your talking to some really good sources.
Easy as pie, theres no secret moral lesson here....:roll:
Yo,
Spartan613
Active member
Got it in one. Cheers mate.
Spartan613
Active member
D*ckhead.....
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Botak
Active member
Look I can understand the need for a Mod to maybe cool tempers down a bit, that's what mods do... and rightfully so. But I can REALLY understand where Spartan's coming from too...
I'm what we call here a Chocko, so I have maybe a fraction of the experience within the ADF that Spartan has (and that's being generous to myself). Having said that, even I know enough about the F88, and have been well trained enough to find some of Le Mask's assertions of supposed fact pretty ridiculous. The fact that he then is given the benefit of Spartan's experience and almost ignores it, when he clearly has such a lack of military experience himself that he's talking about Bayonet fighting like he's seen one WW1/2 movie too many...
Where I'm from if an obviously experienced soldier who's willing to give of his own time to lend you experience starts handing out advice for your benefit, you listen. Doubley so if you're not in a usual barracks/admin/training environment and you're on course. To be short sighted, lazy or arrogant enough to pay off that advice, you can expect a rum-fuelled poke in the chest or ten at the mess later, and not just from the bloke you were inconsiderate enough to ignore. Now, we all pretty much know that Le Mask is a civvie... nothing wrong with that. But still, if he's interested enough in military matters to post here, he should be respectful enough of genuine knowledge to know when to shut up and accept what information is given to him.
Fail to listen once? Human (or not switched on)
Fail to listen twice? Questionable Intelligence
Fail to listen a third time? At that point, the colourful language can be reasonably expected to make an appearance.
And my particular view on it all? Le Mask, mate, if you need to deploy any part of a weapons system to deliver lethal force in a crowd control situation, chances are someone somewhere has already done something very very wrong. And I've used the F88 (even the compact Carbine version you think looks like a Submachine gun) since 2001. Found it to be entirely serviceable, accurate, sturdy, reliable and an otherwise good solid piece of kit given the appropriate level of professional maintenance every soldier should treat their pers wpn with.
I'm what we call here a Chocko, so I have maybe a fraction of the experience within the ADF that Spartan has (and that's being generous to myself). Having said that, even I know enough about the F88, and have been well trained enough to find some of Le Mask's assertions of supposed fact pretty ridiculous. The fact that he then is given the benefit of Spartan's experience and almost ignores it, when he clearly has such a lack of military experience himself that he's talking about Bayonet fighting like he's seen one WW1/2 movie too many...
Where I'm from if an obviously experienced soldier who's willing to give of his own time to lend you experience starts handing out advice for your benefit, you listen. Doubley so if you're not in a usual barracks/admin/training environment and you're on course. To be short sighted, lazy or arrogant enough to pay off that advice, you can expect a rum-fuelled poke in the chest or ten at the mess later, and not just from the bloke you were inconsiderate enough to ignore. Now, we all pretty much know that Le Mask is a civvie... nothing wrong with that. But still, if he's interested enough in military matters to post here, he should be respectful enough of genuine knowledge to know when to shut up and accept what information is given to him.
Fail to listen once? Human (or not switched on)
Fail to listen twice? Questionable Intelligence
Fail to listen a third time? At that point, the colourful language can be reasonably expected to make an appearance.
And my particular view on it all? Le Mask, mate, if you need to deploy any part of a weapons system to deliver lethal force in a crowd control situation, chances are someone somewhere has already done something very very wrong. And I've used the F88 (even the compact Carbine version you think looks like a Submachine gun) since 2001. Found it to be entirely serviceable, accurate, sturdy, reliable and an otherwise good solid piece of kit given the appropriate level of professional maintenance every soldier should treat their pers wpn with.
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Botak, can you show me where I spoke about facts?
If you look carefully, you will see that the thread starter said that the Steyr Augs were "scary".
Next Yossarian spoke about the complexity of the weapon, and then, the subject started this way...
And I expressed an opinion, not an expertise, an opinion. here is my first post on the topic:
Then, your "expert" answer starts with:
And I should thank him for sharing his experience?
There is no perfect weapon system on earth, there is choices behind every design... In some conditions, even an old rusty shotgun can do a better job than the most expensive gun you can think of... These are tools. And we can question the choices behind these weapons... And we can also doubt the technology if we want to, until proved otherwise.
If you look carefully, you will see that the thread starter said that the Steyr Augs were "scary".
Next Yossarian spoke about the complexity of the weapon, and then, the subject started this way...
And I expressed an opinion, not an expertise, an opinion. here is my first post on the topic:
I asked questions and expressed doubts...
Then, your "expert" answer starts with:
This pisses me off... Really, this is lack of respect. So I'm an idiot who cant tell the difference between a silly video game and reality now?
And I should thank him for sharing his experience?
There is no perfect weapon system on earth, there is choices behind every design... In some conditions, even an old rusty shotgun can do a better job than the most expensive gun you can think of... These are tools. And we can question the choices behind these weapons... And we can also doubt the technology if we want to, until proved otherwise.
Botak
Active member
No, LeMask.
Not because I can't, but because I won't. I've read just enough of your posts to conclude you're a Troll, and a bad excuse for a Troll at that. As soon as I'm done with this reply, I'm Emu-Bobbing the Control Panel for the ability to add forum members to an Ignore List.
Most forum software has it, I pray to God this one does.
Not because I can't, but because I won't. I've read just enough of your posts to conclude you're a Troll, and a bad excuse for a Troll at that. As soon as I'm done with this reply, I'm Emu-Bobbing the Control Panel for the ability to add forum members to an Ignore List.
Most forum software has it, I pray to God this one does.
Can you give me one example Big_Z so we can discuss it in its context?
And I'm more discussing your (poor) attitude than the actual topic... I didnt destroy any thread, your poor attitude did. I dont care much about the gun, or the bullpup design, it wont change anything in my life. But you guys are the first to insult, and you gang up... Having numbers on your side doesnt make you right.
And this Spartan you defend so much, kuddos for your "esprit de corp"... But he said only obvious things. And guess what? These obvious things can be discussed...
A little quote from your buddy (Spartan)
No, they are using good old rifles with a wood finish (and maybe even made with wood). What are the reasons behind this choice? The antique look? The balance? to not change the drill?
Why dont you go there to call them idiots, and change their ways to do this stuff... Go ahead mate, if your F88 is so superior, go sell it to these backward idiots parading with bayonets...
Guns are made for many things, your way of warfare is your choice. I can discuss it if I have to.
If I wanted a gun to defend my house, I would take a 50$ rusty shotgun... Because If I took an incredible hightech weapon, I might get robbed by some fools just interested in taking this incredible piece of machinery from me... I dont know, maybe they wanted it to rob a bank or a country...
I'm not a soldier, I dont care about your "musketry" for many reasons, and I dont care much about your skills in "killing people fast to kill other people next" tactics...
This is a cultural choice, not mine, yours... You maybe chose to think that a better gun = a gun giving more firepower. It's a school of thought... I have every right to refuse it.
I said many times that I understood the principles behind the weapon and that I wasnt questioning the intelligence behind the mechanics. And you ignored me on this because you wanted to treat me like crap.
Here are some "auto quotes" from me:
I also heard negative opinions about how it's hard to do a "tactical quick reload"... Dont understand why. I remember a "hand meets hand principle" expression in English. And a very negative opinion on something about the trigger...
I didnt get anything in this stuff, it's chinese for me. So I didnt bring it. And I'm not very sensitive about these opinions neither as they are also in the same "I can kill faster with another gun"... Makes sense for a professional soldier, but for me, it's insanity.
I'm not a troll... You guys are flamers. I'm ignorant about weapons... You got experience... but only in your field. And I'm not that interested in your field. The reasion is very simple, if I learn from you, I become like you. I dont want to see the world like you.
I'm curious to know about your "culture". But damn guys... You are aggressive... You see the world in a very binary way, friend or foe... Something like that...
And I know that every closed system is a dying system... So I would advice you to open up your minds a little.
I admit that I rather throw something even if I know that it will be taken as a provocation... But I still think that its better than to coward back and keep its ideas from itself.
And I'm more discussing your (poor) attitude than the actual topic... I didnt destroy any thread, your poor attitude did. I dont care much about the gun, or the bullpup design, it wont change anything in my life. But you guys are the first to insult, and you gang up... Having numbers on your side doesnt make you right.
And this Spartan you defend so much, kuddos for your "esprit de corp"... But he said only obvious things. And guess what? These obvious things can be discussed...
A little quote from your buddy (Spartan)
Hmmmm, guess what? Who said who were speaking about musketry or whatever what you call musketry? And have you seen Marines doing their silent drill in a parade? Are they using M16? or high tech weapons to do this task?
No, they are using good old rifles with a wood finish (and maybe even made with wood). What are the reasons behind this choice? The antique look? The balance? to not change the drill?
Why dont you go there to call them idiots, and change their ways to do this stuff... Go ahead mate, if your F88 is so superior, go sell it to these backward idiots parading with bayonets...
Guns are made for many things, your way of warfare is your choice. I can discuss it if I have to.
If I wanted a gun to defend my house, I would take a 50$ rusty shotgun... Because If I took an incredible hightech weapon, I might get robbed by some fools just interested in taking this incredible piece of machinery from me... I dont know, maybe they wanted it to rob a bank or a country...
I'm not a soldier, I dont care about your "musketry" for many reasons, and I dont care much about your skills in "killing people fast to kill other people next" tactics...
This is a cultural choice, not mine, yours... You maybe chose to think that a better gun = a gun giving more firepower. It's a school of thought... I have every right to refuse it.
I said many times that I understood the principles behind the weapon and that I wasnt questioning the intelligence behind the mechanics. And you ignored me on this because you wanted to treat me like crap.
Here are some "auto quotes" from me:
I'm sorry if I was misinformed, it's true that the first time I heard about the Bullpup, I was told they they had magazines you can see through to know the amount of bullets you have. I thought it was cool, but someone added that it was a terrible idea, because these magazine were less reliable (they break more easily), and that an experienced soldier can know the amount of bullets he got just by the weight of his gun. Seemed coherent to me at the time so I believed it.
I also heard negative opinions about how it's hard to do a "tactical quick reload"... Dont understand why. I remember a "hand meets hand principle" expression in English. And a very negative opinion on something about the trigger...
I didnt get anything in this stuff, it's chinese for me. So I didnt bring it. And I'm not very sensitive about these opinions neither as they are also in the same "I can kill faster with another gun"... Makes sense for a professional soldier, but for me, it's insanity.
I'm not a troll... You guys are flamers. I'm ignorant about weapons... You got experience... but only in your field. And I'm not that interested in your field. The reasion is very simple, if I learn from you, I become like you. I dont want to see the world like you.
I'm curious to know about your "culture". But damn guys... You are aggressive... You see the world in a very binary way, friend or foe... Something like that...
And I know that every closed system is a dying system... So I would advice you to open up your minds a little.
I admit that I rather throw something even if I know that it will be taken as a provocation... But I still think that its better than to coward back and keep its ideas from itself.
Big_Z
MilForum Recon
In bold.
Voicing your ideas is fine, but you are stomping in other peoples territory. If you tried showing a little bit of respect in your post you wouldn't get the responses you do. I have never laid my hands on a bullpup design so I am not commenting on it. I would rather read posts from people who do have experience and learn something.
Voicing your ideas is fine, but you are stomping in other peoples territory. If you tried showing a little bit of respect in your post you wouldn't get the responses you do. I have never laid my hands on a bullpup design so I am not commenting on it. I would rather read posts from people who do have experience and learn something.
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The idea of a forum is to debate. To express ideas, to discuss them...
You are the ones taking it seriously. And I'm sorry, but I'm polite and respectful. I dont start fights. But I dont fold when people are aggressive toward me.
And It's stupid to say "so shut up" in a forum.
And I dont spread rumors. I voice them, but I dont spread them. There is a big difference. when you say "I heard", you are talking about a rumor.
And I believe that there is experienced people here, you can deal break a rumor with your knowledge. If I told you that I heard that 50cal machine guns cant kill a mouse even with a direct hit... You have the knowledge to say that it's not realistic at all, unless there is a WWII heavy tank named "mouse".
You chose to take it personally and to flame me... Your loss...
And I dont need "any" military experience to discuss things with you guys... I can name a lot of military events to show you that the military minds who rule the world are not wise/intelligent/caring etc...
And true, I know a little about "tradition". And yes, it have nothing to do about combat effectiveness. But my point is that we are not always talking about combat effectiveness. It's not everything.
True, a 50$ rusty shotgun might get me killed... But the day I will need these high performances to survive, I will be screwed already...
And what if All I had was 50$? A lot of what-ifs...
And i'm posting here to express some of my ideas. As ridiculous as they may seem. To get some feedback.
Remember when I was speaking about taking Afghanistan with peanut butter? For me, it's genius. Make the enemy fat and used to comfort, and they will think twice before trying to wage their stupid holy war. And you will spot the foreigners easily, they are the ones who are skinny...
I say it joking, but there is a point behind that. You want to run from the harshness of combat when you are soft and used to the comfort and the pleasures of life...
And I dont believe everything I hear... But I'm very curious by nature. I dig. I believe that a magazine can make a weapon jam if its damaged... The bullet wont go straight, and it may block something...
So puting a magazine in the butt of the rifle increase the chances of letting the magazine take a hit if we swing the rifle at an object/corpse... And the magazine is in contact with mechanics components... If it takes a good hit, it may break the magazine and a sensitive part inside... It may save the life of the soldier, but disable his gun for a time...
Big theory, in particular if it's made by a civilian like me who knows nothing about mechanics and weapons...
But honestly, is it so ridiculous? And why?
And why the insults? Even if I was a stupid kid who played too much video games... Why the insults?
And Am I supposed to take insults with a smile? You think it's fair maybe.
Thanks for reading Big_Z. Hate to waste your time guys... But it's crazy how fast things can go bad.
You are the ones taking it seriously. And I'm sorry, but I'm polite and respectful. I dont start fights. But I dont fold when people are aggressive toward me.
And It's stupid to say "so shut up" in a forum.
And I dont spread rumors. I voice them, but I dont spread them. There is a big difference. when you say "I heard", you are talking about a rumor.
And I believe that there is experienced people here, you can deal break a rumor with your knowledge. If I told you that I heard that 50cal machine guns cant kill a mouse even with a direct hit... You have the knowledge to say that it's not realistic at all, unless there is a WWII heavy tank named "mouse".
You chose to take it personally and to flame me... Your loss...
And I dont need "any" military experience to discuss things with you guys... I can name a lot of military events to show you that the military minds who rule the world are not wise/intelligent/caring etc...
And true, I know a little about "tradition". And yes, it have nothing to do about combat effectiveness. But my point is that we are not always talking about combat effectiveness. It's not everything.
True, a 50$ rusty shotgun might get me killed... But the day I will need these high performances to survive, I will be screwed already...
And what if All I had was 50$? A lot of what-ifs...
And i'm posting here to express some of my ideas. As ridiculous as they may seem. To get some feedback.
Remember when I was speaking about taking Afghanistan with peanut butter? For me, it's genius. Make the enemy fat and used to comfort, and they will think twice before trying to wage their stupid holy war. And you will spot the foreigners easily, they are the ones who are skinny...
I say it joking, but there is a point behind that. You want to run from the harshness of combat when you are soft and used to the comfort and the pleasures of life...
And I dont believe everything I hear... But I'm very curious by nature. I dig. I believe that a magazine can make a weapon jam if its damaged... The bullet wont go straight, and it may block something...
So puting a magazine in the butt of the rifle increase the chances of letting the magazine take a hit if we swing the rifle at an object/corpse... And the magazine is in contact with mechanics components... If it takes a good hit, it may break the magazine and a sensitive part inside... It may save the life of the soldier, but disable his gun for a time...
Big theory, in particular if it's made by a civilian like me who knows nothing about mechanics and weapons...
But honestly, is it so ridiculous? And why?
And why the insults? Even if I was a stupid kid who played too much video games... Why the insults?
And Am I supposed to take insults with a smile? You think it's fair maybe.
Thanks for reading Big_Z. Hate to waste your time guys... But it's crazy how fast things can go bad.
SigJohnson
Your mum
Guns have wheels.
Get the lingo right,
It is a rifle
Get the lingo right,
It is a rifle
Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
Firearms can have wheels to but I get your point lol
And yes,this thread is like a dying horse with a broken leg, someone for the love of humanity should place a well aimed piece of mercy in it's heart...
And for irony's sake do it with an F88.
Spartan613
Active member
I'm just hoping the Moderators will do us all a favour and get rid of the source of all this annoyance. By his own admission, he doesn't know squat about the things we discuss, and adds no value to said discussions.