The War on Terror

Yes I think that as long as west are toe flirting and share double bed with the saudies simple people in the west will get killed for big businessmens self interests. The problem has to be engaged from the roots of all evil. SF units in all honour but there can only be as many SF units that our gouverments can upbring. With no more gouverment. No more SF units.

Only a new Taliban Regim out of another and the name on this one is Europe and that is the price for democray and this system we are living in today. As always - People who play in rigged games get stupid because they dont have to perform.

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
Re: Keep it simple

After reading a few posts it's become apparent that we need a definition for terrorism, but that varies because there is no clear and concise definition. Instead I will use the FBI definition because everything else is details that only really matters in a court of law to convict someone of the act of terrorism.

The unlawful use of force or violence, committed by a group(s) or two or more individuals, against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

I don't plan to turn my post into an Intro to Counter Terrorism, but it seems as if some people are unclear about a few things.

First terrorism is a tactic, it's ALWAYS been around. Every country on the planet has used a form of terrorism be it domestic or international. Yes, the term terrorism began during the "Reign of Terror" of the French Revolution. Also negotiations between terrorists and nations occur, so this "we do not negotiate with terrorists" :cen: is a joke. Don't believe me? Look at the IRA and PIRA, same thing, but the Brits negotiated with the IRA for peace. At best all we can do is suppress terrorism and prevent attacks, it is impossible to end terrorism.

Courtenay said:
You can only negotiate with people who are sane and reasonable. The very designation of "terrorist" should enlighten people to the idea that they cannot be reasoned with!
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If terrorists were insane and unreasonable we'd have no chance to even fight this war. The first lesson taught in Counter Terrorism School is that a terrorist is NOT insane or crazy, they are rational thinkers.

As for the current terrorist situations, it is based on relatively recent events. After WW1 and even before it the British had promised land to the Arabs through the Sykes-Picot Agreement, they never forked it over. Later was the Balfour Declaration which said that we could care less about what the Arabs think we're goint to create a Jewish state. "Little" things like that are reason they hate the western world. And since this was brought up, it's no surprise the Brits are our closest allies. They've pissed off so many people through their previous antics (ie Lord Balfour) that if they didn't have us as their best friend everyone would be going after them. So until the Brits find a new best friend that will protect them the way we do, they'll stick by our side through thick and thin.
 
Well I did my homework in upper secondary education about Terrorism in Europe and I found out after 100 points that sweden really need to take this terrorism problem out from the wardrobe if they want this country to survive the unavoidable future. Here is a little list of well know organisations working in sweden with our security police locked by the government's inability to make decisions in the issue. They probably think in a longer perspective then I do. If we wait 10 years we will have the advantage and then we can do something about it. :lol:

  • GIA

    Al-Gamaa al-islamiya

    Hamas

    Islamish Jihad

    Hizbollah

    PKK

Heck I dont know if I do the right thing when I collect money for the The Salvation Army or if I should start to collect money for Hamas instead. Hmmm. Dont know what serves my best interests over here in sweden any longer. Maby I should join PLO then my foreign minister would love me. :oops: ;)

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
Right, the PKK has bases in Sweden, from which it launches regular attacks on Turkey. Hamas cracks down on Israel with ice cube catapults. When will these horrors end? - Sweden is really a terrorist nest. I can't believe you actually feel safe there, Doc.
 
If you're looking at when terror was invented, over 2000 years ago a bloke by the name of Sun Tzu wrote "kill one, terrorize ten thousand"- in The Art Of War.
I guess it's hard to draw a clearly defined line between warfare (guerilla, conventional or whatever) and terrorism these days- and that's regardless of international law. For instance, how many fanatics wear uniforms that identify them as members of Al Qaeda and therefore lawful combatants? Terrorism is a pretty ambiguous definition, whether you apply it to Bin Laden and Zarqawi or to the V2 rockets that Hitler used 60 years ago.
And as for saying that these days 'no government, no matter how dictatorial' would use its soldiers to kill its own people... what about the likes of what happened in Bosnia/Serbia/Kosovo in the last few years, or more recently Sudan, Zimbabwe, Sierra Leone, Rwanda... the list is quite long.
 
i say if they don't want to wear uniforms then fine with me. by not being a uniformed soldier we don't need to abide by the geneva convention when we capture them. why do you think we can hold pows in gitmo without any of that geneva convention junk?
 
Well Bratwurst.... For us that thinks.... Well not to safe Im afraid.... I try to avoid all major citys if I can. The closest city to me that was hit by Iranian assasin commandos was Västerås 1990 with a letter bomb, a distance of 80 kilometres from here, but hey.... There are still alot of woods to hide in for me and my family.... My wife is maby the only women in sweden that actualy practice Tai-Kwondo and Karate on her husband, I am probably the only one in the community that can handle a Imperial M-7S. The citys and the villages are their grounds, the forest is something else, maby a team of CNN-Inbeaded journalists will join up behind me when that day comes. They should pray that it never happens. ;)

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
Hey Doc, take the figure of people having suffered from the effects of terrorism in Sweden in the last decade and compare it to the one of people struck by lightning.

Practising martial arts is a fine thing though. Nothing keeps your body as sharp as that. I suppose if paranoia leads to that it shouldn't be questioned. ;)
 
There is a very thin line between paranoia and instinct of self-preservation, If I would trust everything that is said I would end up like just another statistic number. Sweden is not a exception, It is not longer a question If it is going to happen, it is rather a question about when, and terrorists and gouvernments have one thing in common, they are both unpredictable and I think that if all people had that in mind, more lifes could be saved.

A citizen with a little bit highter awareness is a citizen that probably can handle the tremendious trauma and state of shock that can tear a completely healthy citizen with less highter awareness apart. To stay calm and not get striked by panic when a bomb rips apart limbs on the fellow citizen behind you is something good to manage if you want to stay alive. Me and my family has a system that is almost bullet proof when it comes to "foresee" possible attacks.

The first one is the stock market, the second one is the dates and the symbolic values as for an example 9-11. The word terrorism comes from the french word "Terreur" witch means to frighten. Have the terrorists frighten me? No not really. They have given me a higher awareness how easy it is for some people to kill another just for their own sick and twisted believes, that I dont share with them. What is dangerous then? What do scare me as a civilian? Well the chances of getting killed in the first strike by terrorists are 100 to 1.

What is dangerous is all the people who never knew what hit them and why? And there is nothing so scarry and dangerous as common civilians that lived in a dreamworld with the believes that they dont have to perform because their leaders take care of everything for them. Well I look at this in a large scale attack scenario with weapons of mass destruction and the panic that follows. Look at 9-11 attack and see the peoples reactions.

Americans is one thing, they have seen stuff like that before and have some kind of awareness, I point at the Oklahoma bombings in 1995 for an example. Sweeds? Well nothing since the west german embassy was occupied in 24 april 1975. There are big differances between the different people in Europe and the US. All other attacks have been conducted in the sweat pink sheets and nothing is done by the media or the gouverment to prepare the people of an attack. So when the big one comes, I will be in some place safe rather then in a appartment surrounded by run away non awareness people. About Terrorisms and the effects by them.

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
The problem will giving too much information to the public is that they'll have too much information. If the public understood how close we've come to serious terrorist attacks since 9/11 we'd never be able to function. There have been numerous attacks that have been thwarted, but the problem is the big one is still to come.
As far as our intel goes, we know that terrorists are saving another big attack specifically for the US. They know the US is a super power and any attack will affect more than just this country, but the world. The problem is Americans are so used to things happening immediately. Terrorists are willing to wait years, and I don't mean 1 or 2 years, I mean 5, 10, 15 years before they attack again. The longer they wait the more effective the attack because the safer we will all feel.
After 9/11 we made the mistake of destroying all satellite communications between Afgahnistan and the US. That was our only communications tap we had between the al-Qaid planners and the cells. It terminated our ability to know exactly what their plans are. We knew about the link before and we had it tapped. Now that we don't have a signal to steal anymore we rely totally on chatter. Which is why we randomly have increased terror alerts across the country. Increased chatter is the only sense we have at the moment of what could be happening.
The only way to not let the terrorist get what they want is to continue living life as normal. You can only terrorize the living.
 
You can only negotiate with people who are sane and reasonable. The very designation of "terrorist" should enlighten people to the idea that they cannot be reasoned with!
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First of all,terrorist isn't insane ,on the contrary ,some of them are literate and are well trained in foremost universities ,especially their leaders.
Second of all,they are reasonable because their targets are not whoever they meet.They don't attack everyone in the world but only a part of them,in general which include American ,Spanish,Japanese ,Chinese.and Korean .
We can not kill all the terrorists .If we killed one terrorist , another five or more terrorists would be created.They don't fear death and they look death as a glory .They believe they would be martry after death and they are proud of give their lives to belief. In apperance,it is belief that lead to craziness.In fact ,it is poor and unfairness that cause the terroism .Poor and unfairness are real oil for terrorism.
The gap between developed countries and developing countres are deeper and deeper.The rich would not like to help the poor but to strike them.Poorness make some countris and people despair.ones in despair would ignor all regulations and use all means to avenge.
 
westwater said:
Second of all,they are reasonable because their targets are not whoever they meet.They don't attack everyone in the world but only a part of them,in general which include American ,Spanish,Japanese ,Chinese.and Korean .
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I'm sure the Iraqi children who were massacred the other day by a car bomb would love to hear your explanation, let alone the thousands of innocent civilians murdered by terrorists, regardless of their nationality. :roll:
 
egoz: wrote: The problem will giving too much information to the public is that they'll have too much information. If the public understood how close we've come to serious terrorist attacks since 9/11 we'd never be able to function.
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A very, very interesting point of view egoz :D
You see there are people that has some speartime to actually look into these attacks on their freetime so to say. But I got the impression that our different gov, and the media is trying to how do I say this in english, quarantine a lot of the information from the people.

I also got the impression from their tactics that they dont want their personal agendas or principles to be interrupt by people that starts to ask themself what is going on and why aren´t you telling me this? I dont like when our different gov, and the media is telling the people a lie that everything is peachy and green on the other side of the bridge that you are passing by every day.

I can honestly say that the different principles and the political agendas in some countries infact make things more easy for the terrorists to operate. If for an example sweden was serious in their talks about fighting the terorrism, wouldnt information be brought to people in the big citys and actually working plans to protect and save lifes in a chrisis of a major terrorist attack actually be better then showing hours of soap operas where dumb people interacts on farms all over the world, or this new MTV stunt Idol 2004 where young people try to be megastars in TV where they get totaly cut down, hanged out, laughed at, humiliated, in a degrading way?

Would it not be better if they filled the television and the radios with information that showed this world from a different point of view. How about showing the world from its true face? The reallity is something I have to live with every single day. If more people saw the effects of a terrorattack or the true intensions of a terrorist organisation I also think more countries would be more willing to help U.S and other nations to fight the videspread terrorism that actually are feeding on our different gov, personal agendas and principles.

When will I see the true face of war? Probably the day when the terrorists blows up a train in rush hour traffic. Probably when thousands of thousands of city people are fleeing for their lifes from quarantine zones, hounted and followed by every nutcase that can feed on plundering, robbing, looting.

I sincerly think that if more gov, and media as the free media that is a powerful instrument in todays society could show the people the information that was relative regardless to the political principles and agendas then we would see this Terrorist threat disappear a bit quicker and people could then sit down and look at soft soap operas and follow Idol 2004 on every TV station they want to togheter with the do it selfe programs and cooking programs untill they choke on it, but now its not the right time.

Soldiers are dying, families are being ripped appart in their homes, and at the trainstations, this is a time when you dont really have afford to **** around to be honest. I sincerly think that big parts of Europe are acting fairly pathetic to get this terrorist threat go away. They are acting as the young people in Idol 2004 with "nothing gonna happen" - attitude and good people will get hurt. For what? For what?

They have to much to think on allready? I think its time to drop the dicks and on with the socks for our gov and media, and take a large step out in to the reallity and face the facts that they are only helping these terrorists continue killing people. Look at all organisations listed over here in my previous message. If I was the primeminister of sweden, It would not take many hours to secure this country from this type of organisations.

I would take these persons/organisations regardless of their believes and send them back to where they came from and there they could fight their gouverments or different states but not at the cost on my peoples safety and if people get a dose of good pure reallity they would agree with me and not trying to hide behind useless excuses and BS thinking where citypeople makes all the thinking and the country people pays the price for their stupidity and naive political correct bird songs in the long term.

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
As I said before. The only way to really fight terrorism is to make countries / movements that support the "bad guys" stop doing it. The political pressure must be more united and to use violence against countries is the absolute last thing to do.

Countries like my own (Sweden) must do more to stop the foundation for terrorism. I know of many different groups that are active here and nothing happends. I a way because of that Sweden supports terrorism. I am ashamed to admit it but thats the way it is and probably so in many other countries that allow the political parts of terrorist groups to operate within there borders. As long as those things goes on it doesn't help that much when US, UK and other troops die in Iraq.
 
Often there is a "if you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone... you can take your mess elsewhere" attitude. If that terror cell in Stockholm doesn't attack Stockholm, rather is concentrating on what to do with American ships that enter Rotterdam, then the cops and authorities might be reluctant to do anything about it because the perception will be that chaos has been brought to Stockholm by the police.
It's just a hypothetical example that.
Not just Sweden but I believe France also has that huge problem. Don't know what they're doing about that either. It seems most other countries are arresting them though.
 
What I try to tell is that as long as different gov think they stay out of trouble as long as they acts like ostriches hiding from the problems untill it bites them in the ass there will be wars and people will die. The camelot is dead, the knights around the round table are weak. There is need of powerful leaders in this world that dare to take these problems more serious.

But they do not and wont, because I think they will rather let innocent people die then actually do something about it. As long as people get rich and earns money on it they will continue to let this boat sink. What do they in the top have to worry about? A train bomb? A hijacked plane? A buss maby? Or being attacked in the subway? Come on get serious.

They got there own planes, trains, subwaysystems and armed guards and cars when they move around. They dont have to worry. They got houses like forts and their children dont have to go in public schools if they dont want to. These people has noting to do with the reallity, they live in safe havens far, far from the reallity that common people meats.

They will not be effected the same way as we are going to be. Stockholm as New York a city with great importance for the west in scandinavia having ports, having all that the terrorists want if they want to make a mess. They have established there cells over here, collecting money for there bussines in the middle east and it´s all protected by swedish law.

They know this. And if some sweed would even touch the laws or take this terrorists by the neck as I should have done long before 9-11, they still have an effective hostage. Maby one of Europes best hostages ever, together with former West/East Germany, French. Over here they have 9 million people to frighten and the word "Terreur" would have a really good punch over here in sweden if things would go wrong.

And it is allready happening. Two days ago a right wing fragment was arrested for planing a subversion against sweden and it`s infrastructure. There are loops and holes in our infrastruction that easily can be used in a terrifying attack that would make alot, alot of people suffer. There are nothing our 8000 policemen can do when the profesionall terrorists get kicking on our ground.

There are simply to few policemen that speaks their language, we don´t have an army strong enough to defend our own boarders at the time, it will take 10 years at least to make this country strong enought to repell any attacker, domestic or foreign. And one more thing that I find so funny is that sweden is driving this neutral stand politics, andl terrorists with political goals acts free over here against other states and gov on the other side of the Baltic Sea and on the same time our gov condemn U.S/Israel and allies in censorious terms when they are trying to make this world a little bit safer then it has been.

Well I didn´t have to agree with US when they attacked Iraq but look at Afghanistan for god sake. That is something else, at the same time while time has been moving I can see why US attacked Iraq and they have proven to me as a layman that in this terrorist war that they were right again. Where do the terrorists fight? Where are these terrorists? Are they in Stockholms outskirts fighting against our police? Are they in New York flying jumbo jets into big towers? Are they trying to send spleen bacterium to the frenchs resturants? Are they fighting on the streets of Brussel? Are they blowing up trains in Spain?

No not now when Spain withdrew there soldiers from Iraq. So what message has the terrorists sent to me over here?. I say like the_13th_redneck "if you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone."

But other things that hit me were the question what would happend in Kabul or in Baghdad, or in Theran you name it, if the US hadn´t done anything? acting just like Europe have done in this Iraqi war? Playing with the tought for a second or two, I am talking about the future ladies and gentlemen. What`s next? for the terrorists? What do you believe have been the next stopp for these terrorists after 9-11 if the US and the world didnt respond as they did against Kabul? I believe we would have been watching a quiet different UEFA cup on TV in the future to be honest.

I think we would see raped women get stoned to death. Foreign workers get there throuths cut of because they are not Muslims, Opium heavens where human life is worth nothing only Opium, Human trade in such a scale that we couldnt understand this in our wildest nightmares, open boarders where the guards shoots anyone that dont share there belifes or talks strange. My home is their home tomorrow. What does the Terrorists try to win in this war? My deepest sympathys? My will to live in freedom?

Well I tell you as long as I live there will be no Utopia ruled by madmen that loves tyrrany and spit on my ground where I walk because I don`t believe in there way of living and fighting as long as I can write or speak about it. This is freedom, this is what freedom is all about.

Take the fight and tell your leaders that you dont want these kind of terrorists knocking on your door one day telling you that its time for your sister to face the crowds on the football stadium. I think these terrorists needs a good portion of Bluegrass music and a good round of human values plain and simple. And our govs dont help our common neighbours with that mission by acting like ostriches all the time.

Well there will be alot of blood and guts before things get safe again, but I can promiss you all out there that the efforts we do today will help future generations to not do the same misstake as our fathers and leaders have done, looking the other way anytime a terrorist is blowing something/people up that is.

This is the price for freedom. The one million question is... How do we achieve this freedom? by talking? or through a rifle barrel? Well to be honest I think the only way to make this happen is a little bit of them both, but to make that happen, leaders have to educate people better and also have the guts and nervs to take action when things like this is happening.

What I mean is that you dont always have to like what has to be done, but you have to do it anyway and sometimes people are just not ready for the consequences of a war of any kind. I think leaders and media has a great responsobility in lifting forward their misstakes so people understand that some war`s just have to take time and it will cost.

But this is not done by the govs, because their misstakes would not look good in the next election they will participate in and that is not a good way to protect and serve their country when their own best interests rules but at the same time they very well know its necessary if you want to defeat terrorism.

Regards:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
ha

Torrorism is against by all the world.However, i think it's inevitable.After Soviet's disintegration,various confrontations once hidden in the antagonism of the East and West must have broken out.They come from the unfair development of the world's ecnomic.Now,we r in a speacial era,the transfer from traditional nations to the world's union.After torrorism,.what's the next?
 
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