Mohmar Deathstrike
Banned
bulldogg said:
Yup, I'm always suspicious of anybody who claims I'm threatened by something they don't like.
The rising of an Empire and the future invasion of Europe!
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Yup, I'm always suspicious of anybody who claims I'm threatened by something they don't like.
Mohmar Deathstrike
Banned
Morten said:
gladius already played the EMP card ages ago. You'll have to to better than that
Mohmar Deathstrike said:Morten said:
gladius already played the EMP card ages ago. You'll have to to better than that
? ehm... imho the firepower og todays Artillary, Airforce and Naval would be enough to take em out... they would move around in HUGE groups as an easy target and without any form of shield they would be chanceless...
i just dont think that the quantity would do that much... u might say that they can keep coming! but we can keep shooting too!
Mohmar Deathstrike
Banned
Morten said:
The Air Force would be grounded because of the EMP. Shipborne missiles wouldn't work either in gladius' scenario. So you'd only have artillery and the tiny cannons that frigates and destroyers have.
Mohmar Deathstrike
Banned
Morten said:
I think it's highly unlikely. But I thought the debate is still within the frame of a preemptive EMP attack by "the Muslims".
Mohmar Deathstrike said:
The crusades were started because of 400 years of continual Muslim conquest of Christian lands, to get those lands back. It was not a one sided affair as you would have us believe, get your historical perspective straight. Not to mention the Muslims did invade Europe getting all the way to Vienna and parts of Spain, even though at that time Europe was technologically superior.
Morten said:
An EMP will NOT start a nuclear war.
No one will die as a direct result of an EMP hit. All that will be affected is electronics. The Radiation will disapate in the upper atmosphere, it will not kill anyone. So you are wrong that this will start a Nuclear war. The West will not start a nuclear war unless nuclear weapons are used directly on cities, this is not the case here.
Morten said:
Even if alot of the military equipment survives the EMP strike. The result will be no radio communications because of a supercharged ionesphere. This will last for a few day or weeks.
Even if you had all that superior tech how are you going to coordinate the artillery and aircraft to know where to hit since you can't communicate by radio?
This will happen at least in the opening stages of the war. Large gaps would have already been opened on the front lines for army groups to flow through. Maybe later we can counter but the enemy is already deep inside Europe.
Mohmar Deathstrike
Banned
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that to Morten. EMP= No communications=No coordinated counter-offensive even with low-tech equipment.
You're right. Muslim caliphates had been established in Spain before the crusades.
You're right. Muslim caliphates had been established in Spain before the crusades.
so u think that just because no one dies directly by the blast it wont start a nuclear war? thats kinda naive... they use a nuclear bomb, and the effect that it will have is that MILLIONS of people will die, the survivability will drop like a stone if that ever happened.
its the same thing to say that if u nuke something close to the enemys country that'll create a chainreaction like a... tsunami, its okay? u dont actually have to use a nuclear bomb directly at the country to make them nuke u back! The intentions of the, nukes use, is enough...
or i can ask... what makes u so sure that the west will only nuke if it is a direct attack on a city?
An EMP is the equivalent of using a convetional bomb, as a civilized state you can only counter with the same means. Just because it uses a nuclear bomb doesn't mean the effects are nuclear.
Will the West really use a Nuclear weapons and risk more real nuclear strikes against us, I don't think so.
The West is not insane.
As long as the West thinks it still has a chance of winning the war conventionally it will not use nuclear weapons.
The only time the West will use nukes if it is facing absolute and certain defeat, and even that is questionable.
Maybe you are insane and would like to use nukes right at the begining and pursue a MAD situation and destroy the whole world, when there is a chance our side may still win without doing this.
Will the West really use a Nuclear weapons and risk more real nuclear strikes against us, I don't think so.
The West is not insane.
As long as the West thinks it still has a chance of winning the war conventionally it will not use nuclear weapons.
The only time the West will use nukes if it is facing absolute and certain defeat, and even that is questionable.
Maybe you are insane and would like to use nukes right at the begining and pursue a MAD situation and destroy the whole world, when there is a chance our side may still win without doing this.
Damien435
Active member
And how will the West know that the Muslim's fired a missile and it detonated without knowing that it merely detonated in the upper atmosphere to knock out their electronics? All they will see is a missle go up, a big bang, and then nothing.
In the 70's a missile test firing from a submarine in the atlantic nearly sparked WWIII because the US, even though it was our own missile, thought that it was launched by the Soviet's. So, given that example, do you think it will take much to make us launch when we are at war against an enemy with nukes and they launch a missile?
In the 70's a missile test firing from a submarine in the atlantic nearly sparked WWIII because the US, even though it was our own missile, thought that it was launched by the Soviet's. So, given that example, do you think it will take much to make us launch when we are at war against an enemy with nukes and they launch a missile?
You are right.
I knew this prior to posting. I even remember reading some your posting on this subject, they were quite informative. I just didn't feel like explaining everything in lenghty detail, and just wanted to post short summary, so I lumped everything in one piece.
There are plenty of fail safes to prevent a nuclear war. The fail safe that prevented it during the 70's will do so in the future.
Besides I think every one know that the Islamics will be at a disavantage if they used nukes on the West, knowing this I beleive the West will act acordingly. That doesn't mean they can't hit the West with nukes, just not in porportion to what with can hit them with, it just makes no sense for them to use it against us when then can hit with EMP instead, ---its simply basic strategy and the military will know this.
At this stage in the future the West will probably already know that an EMP strike is forthcoming, although there will not be much time to prepare for it. Still even if most the military sector is saved, with the loss of comunications it will be very hard to use all that high tech equiopment to its full advatage, like its suposed to be used, coordinated and on the fly. The civilian sector on the other hand will be severly crippled no matter what.
I knew this prior to posting. I even remember reading some your posting on this subject, they were quite informative. I just didn't feel like explaining everything in lenghty detail, and just wanted to post short summary, so I lumped everything in one piece.
Damien435 said:
There are plenty of fail safes to prevent a nuclear war. The fail safe that prevented it during the 70's will do so in the future.
Besides I think every one know that the Islamics will be at a disavantage if they used nukes on the West, knowing this I beleive the West will act acordingly. That doesn't mean they can't hit the West with nukes, just not in porportion to what with can hit them with, it just makes no sense for them to use it against us when then can hit with EMP instead, ---its simply basic strategy and the military will know this.
At this stage in the future the West will probably already know that an EMP strike is forthcoming, although there will not be much time to prepare for it. Still even if most the military sector is saved, with the loss of comunications it will be very hard to use all that high tech equiopment to its full advatage, like its suposed to be used, coordinated and on the fly. The civilian sector on the other hand will be severly crippled no matter what.
gladius said:
u know... nations see a war coming.. its not something that they find out about in the last moment... what i mean with this is that the US would have warned the middle eastern that if they use any nuke for any purpose the US will strike back hard!.. thats a realistic statement... its not like.. OMG! LOOK! they got billions of men and have EMP'ed us without us EVER knowing anything like that would happend!
OMFGand the west would be ****ed if they got EMP'ed and that would mean that they would lose!.. everything in the US army is being renovated into the digital age meaning that EMP = Defeat... nukes is the only option after that!...
but i do believe that the US in 1 or a few years, have found a working defense against the EMP... nothing is invincible and considering how fast the technology is evolving atm its a pretty realistic assumption(sp?)...
Morten said:u know... nations see a war coming.. its not something that they find out about in the last moment... what i mean with this is that the US would have warned the middle eastern that if they use any nuke for any purpose the US will strike back hard!.. thats a realistic statement... its not like.. OMG! LOOK! they got billions of men and have EMP'ed us without us EVER knowing anything like that would happend!
and the west would be ****ed if they got EMP'ed and that would mean that they would lose!.. everything in the US army is being renovated into the digital age meaning that EMP = Defeat... nukes is the only option after that!...
but i do believe that the US in 1 or a few years, have found a working defense against the EMP... nothing is invincible and considering how fast the technology is evolving atm its a pretty realistic assumption(sp?)...
Did you read my last post, did I not say they will see this coming. If you read throughout the thread I have said the same thing. I nevre said this will take us completely by surprise.
First of all how do you know the US military will get defeated so easily even with EMP. Europe will be overun to a great degree, but the US still exist and can still strike back later.
The West not risk a nuclear war when there is still a chance to strike back.
There will most likely be EMP defense in the future for the military, however the civilian sector will be vunerable which will make it harder to go into full mobilization for total war, not mention a communications blackout at the onset of the war. This will give the enemy a jumpstart during the opening stages to drive deep into Europe. After the West gets over the intitial shock of the invasion, and long as there are NATO forces within continental Europe, then they will be able to delay the enemy. If they can delay him long enough then the eventual counter-attack can be staged, then West will still have a chance. Thats why they will not use nuclear weapons, it would be insane to do so at this point.
my point was that the US would be threatening the middle east about the use of Nuclear weapons, no matter if its a direct attack or not... no matter if its used to kill with a blast or to create an EMP effect.
i dont think the middle east, as u say urself, would dare to create the EMP effect, if the US issued such a warning... pretty much halting the use of EMP.
theres no way in hell that they would just let them EMP us or themselfes(sp?).
i dont think the middle east, as u say urself, would dare to create the EMP effect, if the US issued such a warning... pretty much halting the use of EMP.
theres no way in hell that they would just let them EMP us or themselfes(sp?).
First of all how do you know the US will even threaten the use of nukes to fight EMP? The US could issue that warning, it may work depends who is in charge, if it is a tough President then maybe, only maybe it will work. But that is a big IF.
What if they do use EMP anyways, do you really think the US will risk bombing them with nukes, when they can nuke New York or Chicago. I don't think the US will risk that no matter who is in charge. They simply won't.
The effect of EMP does not warrant the use of nuclear weapons. I don't see why the enemy will believe that the US will use nukes to strike back against EMP. So they will go ahead and use EMP anyways. The only time the US will use nukes for sure is if they send a terrorist to nuke one of our cities.
What if they do use EMP anyways, do you really think the US will risk bombing them with nukes, when they can nuke New York or Chicago. I don't think the US will risk that no matter who is in charge. They simply won't.
The effect of EMP does not warrant the use of nuclear weapons. I don't see why the enemy will believe that the US will use nukes to strike back against EMP. So they will go ahead and use EMP anyways. The only time the US will use nukes for sure is if they send a terrorist to nuke one of our cities.
Mohmar Deathstrike
Banned
Bush said he'd use nukes in Iraq if his troops were attacked by Biochem weapons.
Also, doesn't the US now have a working ABM system?
Also, doesn't the US now have a working ABM system?
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