The M1 Garand: Great Rifle or Major Mishap
M1 Carbine was a different gun & the so called Tanker M-1 didn't go into production. Unrelated follow on guns are not relevant either.
1. The Garand was an excellent weapon, from everything I've read it was accurate enough, was excellently reliable, and, most importantly, beat the pants off of any other mass produced rifle of the war in terms of firepower. Vastly more than the bolt action KarK98 or the SMLE or the Mosign Nagant or the Type 95, and from most accounts I've read, vastly more reliable than the SVT-40, and the Gewere-41/43. So, yeah, no doubt, best mass produced rifle of the war.
2. I say mass produced cause the german STG-44 was better, being a technological generation or 2 ahead, and it only had about 400k or so built versus roughly 4 million Garands.
2. I say mass produced cause the german STG-44 was better, being a technological generation or 2 ahead, and it only had about 400k or so built versus roughly 4 million Garands.
lolwhassup
Active member
The M1A1 Carbine was actually invented in late 1930's and was not influenced by the M1 Garand. The M1 Garand did however lead to the M14 and M21(which is a sniper variant of the M14). As for the M16, it was the brainchild of Eugene Stoner and has nearly completely different internals from the M14. The M16 did lead to the M4. The HK 416 you are refering to is nothing more than a M4A1 with a G36 gas piston instead of the DI system. (the gas piston, i might add i was originally derived from the short stroke gas piston of the AR-18 also designed by Stoner.)
84RFK
Active member
The M14, or at least something similar was under testing by the Norwegian army at one point, possibly also the Danish army.
I say "something similar" beccause the Norwegian army planned to convert it's stock of M1 Garands into a M14 type rifle.
The rifles for the test was converted in Italy (suggesting the origin of 5.56's Danish rifle) and worked well, but was ultimately turned down in favour of the H&K G3 system.
I suppose the army was offered US M14 rifles, but opted on converting the plentyful stock of M1 Garand, or SLG in Norwegian nomenclature, instead as more cost effective.
SLG by the way is short for "Selv Lade Gevær" (Self Loading Gun) and they are still in use by the Royal Guards drill company today.
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
Just an old fart who loves guns .....
I guess I need to add my name to the old timers list. I qualified with the M1 Garand, the M1 Carbine, the .45, .38/6 inch, .38/4 inch, 9mm Semi-auto, M-14, M-16, 50 cal Sniper with 4.5X14 scope, 50 cal machine gun/post mounted w/iron sight, 12 ga Shotgun/long barrel, 12 ga/16 inch barrel (riot). [I also had a chance to fire the old British Enfield 303 - no qual]
I have qualified Expert or Riot Qualified or Sniper Qualified with almost every weapon I listed above. I also worked as a Range Master where I taught combat techniques for the .45, both .38s, 9 mm Semi-auto and both 12 Ga Shotguns (Browning). I was ALSO the Range Master for the Bermuda Police SWAT team ... they fired 9mm Uzis [the ONLY range in Bermuda was on the NAS Base]. Just to top it off, I ALSO was the Qualifying Officer/Range Master for the NAS Bermuda Marine Detachment [until I could get 2 LCPLs qual'd as Range Masters .. at which time I turned the range over to them.
I qualified Expert Sniper (stateside), but never had to use my qualification in the field (I missed being assigned due to being in the hospital .. fighting pneumonia). After I was released from the hospital, I was then assigned to an Infantry Company, but ended up re-upping for an Electronic School (thus changing my MOS). Not being Infantry any longer, I let my Sniper qual lapse. Keep in mind the fact that I served in the Army and Navy and carried quals from both services.
There are other weapons that I have fired over the years (way too many to list) ... including black powder muzzle-loader rifles and hand guns - one of the hand guns was the saddle Dragoon Pistol (I have 2 of them - 1 rt handed, 1 lft handed), which fired a ball approximately 50-58 cal in size. They were carried on either side of a Dragoon Saddle. Some Dragoons carried as many as 6 pistols when going into a fight. I believe they were originally French weapons. You can ALSO add a number of the well known Magnums to the above list (civilian).
My old double barrel 12 ga (over 75 years old .. knurled twin hammers, converted from brass shells to the modern light load shells), sits behind my computer room door. I take it out and clean it at least once a year. I have to be careful when cleaning it though ... I don't want to end up removing the browning from the barrel.... it is difficult finding a gunsmith that can 'brown' gun barrels. I also clean my Dragoon Pistols at the same time.
I have fired 10s of thousands of rounds for just about every military weapon I listed above.
What is sad, is the fact that even though I love guns, I haven't picked up a weapon since 1995 (three years after I retired from the military).
I guess I need to add my name to the old timers list. I qualified with the M1 Garand, the M1 Carbine, the .45, .38/6 inch, .38/4 inch, 9mm Semi-auto, M-14, M-16, 50 cal Sniper with 4.5X14 scope, 50 cal machine gun/post mounted w/iron sight, 12 ga Shotgun/long barrel, 12 ga/16 inch barrel (riot). [I also had a chance to fire the old British Enfield 303 - no qual]
I have qualified Expert or Riot Qualified or Sniper Qualified with almost every weapon I listed above. I also worked as a Range Master where I taught combat techniques for the .45, both .38s, 9 mm Semi-auto and both 12 Ga Shotguns (Browning). I was ALSO the Range Master for the Bermuda Police SWAT team ... they fired 9mm Uzis [the ONLY range in Bermuda was on the NAS Base]. Just to top it off, I ALSO was the Qualifying Officer/Range Master for the NAS Bermuda Marine Detachment [until I could get 2 LCPLs qual'd as Range Masters .. at which time I turned the range over to them.
I qualified Expert Sniper (stateside), but never had to use my qualification in the field (I missed being assigned due to being in the hospital .. fighting pneumonia). After I was released from the hospital, I was then assigned to an Infantry Company, but ended up re-upping for an Electronic School (thus changing my MOS). Not being Infantry any longer, I let my Sniper qual lapse. Keep in mind the fact that I served in the Army and Navy and carried quals from both services.
There are other weapons that I have fired over the years (way too many to list) ... including black powder muzzle-loader rifles and hand guns - one of the hand guns was the saddle Dragoon Pistol (I have 2 of them - 1 rt handed, 1 lft handed), which fired a ball approximately 50-58 cal in size. They were carried on either side of a Dragoon Saddle. Some Dragoons carried as many as 6 pistols when going into a fight. I believe they were originally French weapons. You can ALSO add a number of the well known Magnums to the above list (civilian).
My old double barrel 12 ga (over 75 years old .. knurled twin hammers, converted from brass shells to the modern light load shells), sits behind my computer room door. I take it out and clean it at least once a year. I have to be careful when cleaning it though ... I don't want to end up removing the browning from the barrel.... it is difficult finding a gunsmith that can 'brown' gun barrels. I also clean my Dragoon Pistols at the same time.
I have fired 10s of thousands of rounds for just about every military weapon I listed above.
What is sad, is the fact that even though I love guns, I haven't picked up a weapon since 1995 (three years after I retired from the military).
- Ah well, maybe one of these days ...................
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lvcabbie
Active member
I have no idea how it happened and it really made no sense as I was the unit clerk at the time! I was stationed with the engineer field maintenance platoon at Camp Bussac north of Bordeaux when the platoon leader asked me if I was familiar with small arms. I'd learned how to break down and work on an old octagon barrel carbine and opened my mouth ---- yeah, I know. I know. NEVER volunteer anything!!!!!
Anyhow, they sent me to an armorer on the camp and he taught me the in and outs of the M-1 and the .45. So, I became the platoon armorer.
Never used it since and have not owned or touched a weapon since my retirement.:salute:
Anyhow, they sent me to an armorer on the camp and he taught me the in and outs of the M-1 and the .45. So, I became the platoon armorer.
Never used it since and have not owned or touched a weapon since my retirement.:salute:
Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
You know they often threw empty magazines onto rocks to produce the "ping" this fooled the enemy into thinking the the US infantrymen was out of ammo.
This can and was replicated with a variety of metal insturments, like "rescued" silverware on the battlefields of Europe.
Korean Seaboy
Active member
I think we discussed the "ping noise" enough for 4 pages. We obviously now know that it can be countered easily through fake sounds, etc...
Is there any other problems with the M1 Garand? Inaccurancy, accidents, or anything?
Is there any other problems with the M1 Garand? Inaccurancy, accidents, or anything?
84RFK
Active member
The M-1 Garand was pretty accurate, and most of the accidents was due to human error, AKA the Garand-thumb...blue and sore...
muscogeemike
Active member
In the early ‘80’s with the 1st Bde of the 2nd ID in the ROK, our arms room held the M-14’s used by the local contract Korean perimeter guards.
There were some US “old timers” who, if the N. Koreans invaded, wanted these rifles instead of standard issue M-16’s.
There were some US “old timers” who, if the N. Koreans invaded, wanted these rifles instead of standard issue M-16’s.
84RFK
Active member
Can't blame them, my own confidence in the AG3/G3 just can't be transfered to the H&K 416..
Korean Seaboy
Active member
Ah yes, the Garand Thumb. I've seen a person who lost this thumb to the Garand who fought in the Korean War
lvcabbie
Active member
I had a scar for a long time at the inside bottom of my thumg. :bravo:
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
I NEVER had an M1 thumb ..... only people who didn't pay attention to what they were doing ended up with black and blue sore thumbs.
As far as accuracy, the M1 had one of the best records for number of hits per 100 rds fired of almost any US military weapon.
It seems the faster the rate of fire, the less the number of hits per 100 rds fired was achieved. That was a problem with some of the rapid-fire firearms that were used in Vietnam. That is one of the reasons for the modifications which turned semi and .. rapid fire weapons into weapons which limited the number of rounds per trigger pull to 2 or three round bursts. It raised the number of hits per 100 rds drastically.
Personally, I NEVER had a problem using the iron sights to zero in the M1 ... I fired Expert every time that I went to the range and fired for score.
While the M1 was a little heavier than some of the later weapons I carried, if I had to choose a weapon for accuracy (leaving out the weight consideration), my choice would be the M1 .. with the Sniper Scope setup. It was accurate enough that I could fire a round at regular M1 range distances, with a bullseye pattern that could be covered by a 2 inch patch almost every single time ... without one single 'Maggies Drawers' during the entire round. By the time you finished a complete round (using a single target), the center was so riddled .. that the center of the target was nothing but patches. The slightest touch pushed a large hole in the center of the target.
DID SOME OF YOU HAVE THE SAME KIND OF RESULTS WITH THE M1?????
As far as accuracy, the M1 had one of the best records for number of hits per 100 rds fired of almost any US military weapon.
It seems the faster the rate of fire, the less the number of hits per 100 rds fired was achieved. That was a problem with some of the rapid-fire firearms that were used in Vietnam. That is one of the reasons for the modifications which turned semi and .. rapid fire weapons into weapons which limited the number of rounds per trigger pull to 2 or three round bursts. It raised the number of hits per 100 rds drastically.
Personally, I NEVER had a problem using the iron sights to zero in the M1 ... I fired Expert every time that I went to the range and fired for score.
While the M1 was a little heavier than some of the later weapons I carried, if I had to choose a weapon for accuracy (leaving out the weight consideration), my choice would be the M1 .. with the Sniper Scope setup. It was accurate enough that I could fire a round at regular M1 range distances, with a bullseye pattern that could be covered by a 2 inch patch almost every single time ... without one single 'Maggies Drawers' during the entire round. By the time you finished a complete round (using a single target), the center was so riddled .. that the center of the target was nothing but patches. The slightest touch pushed a large hole in the center of the target.
DID SOME OF YOU HAVE THE SAME KIND OF RESULTS WITH THE M1?????