T-90 VS Leopard 2

So, let's start a brawl over whether Russia or Korea is better. Haha

If you say that Leo2 is a piece of wasted steel, I seriously suggest that you go back to elementary school. Also, the T-90 is weak individually in my opinion, however, in mass numbers as I think it's relatively cheap, so for those who play Starcraft, T-90=zerg, Leo2=Protoss.
 
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T-90 tank is not weak. Its already proven. T-90 tank is more thicker and better. No HEAT missiles can not penetrate the tank and they also say its armor can not be penetrated. Comment removed by moderator ,that 400 figure is outdate as well with your mind. During the economic boom in Russia they made production of more T-90s. Also I got this info from many different website from east to west. They all claim the same thing. We all know russia will win. Its military HUGE. Also Russia has more resources and aswell better tanks. Isnt Korean military and there factories are outdated. Oh yea you learned this from your outdated elementary schools.
 
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russia rules said:
T-90 tank is not weak. Its already proven. T-90 tank is more thicker and better. No HEAT missiles can not penetrate the tank and they also say its armor can not be penetrated. ----------that 400 figure is outdate as well with your mind. During the economic boom in Russia they made production of more T-90s. Also I got this info from many different website from east to west. They all claim the same thing. We all know russia will win. Its military HUGE. Also Russia has more resources and aswell better tanks. Isnt Korean military and there factories are outdated. Oh yea you learned this from your outdated elementary schools.
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Not necessary

Actually, I did hold some respect for the Russians as I was fascinated at how Russians were so determined at everything, especially during WWII. Now, you've vanquished every respect I had for Russia and further proven other people's point that Russians are rude. Which in your case, might be a compliment

The Russian military is outdated, very corrupt, bureaucratic, etc... You Russians even had difficulty fighting with Georgia, while "stupid, ignorant, koreans" could have easily wiped it out. Oh, wait. A wise old man said that never to argue with idiots, as they drag you down to their level and beat you by experience of being an idiot. So let's discuss something else, while ignoring Mr. Russia rules

Mr. A Can of a Man, what's the weather there like? Ours is a slight cold, very well into fall. People are now wearing jackets and coats. Though it's still above 20 degrees Celsius
 
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Whoa Whoa Whoa. Let this put this argument to a end. You both have a right for your opinions but no right for insults. Lets all agree that both tanks are both good and even. Fair and simple.
 
Korean Seaboy said:
Actually, I did hold some respect for the Russians as I was fascinated at how Russians were so determined at everything, especially during WWII. Now, you've vanquished every respect I had for Russia and further proven other people's point that Russians are rude. Which in your case, might be a compliment
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Wow, you are basing your opinion on an entire nation on the actions and words of one person? That is like saying that all Americans are bad because George Bush was a bad President or saying that Germans are all still bloodthirsty killers because of Hitler.

People these days...
 
Stealthy! said:
Wow, you are basing your opinion on an entire nation on the actions and words of one person? That is like saying that all Americans are bad because George Bush was a bad President or saying that Germans are all still bloodthirsty killers because of Hitler.

People these days...
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Don't feed the trolls, let them eat each other. :smile:
 
Sorry. Just was a little hot-blooded after some beer and an argument with my next-door neighbor. When I turned online, his post ticked me off, hence my idiotic post. I apologize
 
Since he is banned we cannot say anything bad about him. Korean Seaboy plz dont think all Russians are bad. He is jerk but very patriotic to his country. Not all Russians are like that. So plz dont count against us. Russian military is not corrupt and little outdated. We are still strong and powerful and are military is not weak. We are number 2 in the world military ranking and we getting stronger and stronger. Currently the Russian military going to through modernization. So plz dont say we corrupt, outdated and all that. Its an old and stupid comment. Have a good day
 
Try our new group about the might of the Russian military and tanks in Facebook. You are free to discuss anything about the might of Russia. Plz join Russian tanks and military.
 
A Can of Man said:
Wasn't the RPGs such as as they were done by the Metis-M. This I give credit for. It's been used, it has worked.
The next time Russian hardware does that, I'll give it due credit.

About the T-80.
"The explosive reactive armor does not provide any added protection against APDS or APFSDS attack."
"The Russian Defense Ministry made a selection of a single MBT in 1995. The fighting in Grozny had been shown around the world and the reputation of Russian tanks was sullied. Although many casualities were due to bad tactics and many T-72s were also lost, it was the knocked-out T-80s which made an impression. More had been expected of the "quality" M-80 MBT. This is alleged to have tipped the balance against the T-80 in the selection. The T-80 was already more expensive and its delicate, fuel-hungry turbine engine was still giving problems. "
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/t-80.htm
One shot one kill for the M1A1 Abrams. T-80 sucks.
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Well one major fact about ERA, it is meant to Degrade KE Rounds and HEAT,it is designed to add additional armor to the tank protection. At most T-80U has around ~815mm of armor, which KE5 adds around ~150-250mm of extra armor to the tank. Keep in mind in 1996 US Test shot from a M1 Abrams to the T-72A fitted with early type of KE5, no round including M829A1 couldnt penetrate. Those losses in Chechen war was bad tactics, each T-80BV got hit by RPG 6 or 7 times on Turret Roof without infantry support. Imagine any tank in that situation would go down, no matter if it M1 Abrams, Leo 2, or T-90. I still believe KE 5 could still degraded M829A2/A3 (this is my speculation, as we all know we dont know the real figures of the round). T-80U does have a fuel hungry engine, so does Abrams but later got replaced by diesel on T-80UD. Nevertheless however since Omsk went down T-80 series are done. T-90A has great frontal and side armor, good mobility, reliability, and fantastic APS system. Leo 2A6 has Better armor then T-90A. T-90MS and T-90AM on the other hand...
 
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Classifying gear like this on a broad spectrum leaves many open loopholes that will remain so in terms of speculations.

Stastitics only go so far, and the only close measure in a match up could be crew training and experiance, as well as the deployment of each oposing tank in terms of it's use.

Lastly, even if you were comparing relativly narrow attributes of each tank against each other, due to their highly classified nature, it's almost impossible to know what each machine can really do and make an educated guess at best about how it would perform against it's adversary.

And quite frankly that high degree of guess work and unkown factors is what any modern military force fielding either machine would strive for in terms of keeping ahead of the enemy.
 
I'm in love with the T-90, she is like a girl who takes your v-card. It is a beautiful tank that combines the bare bones of what you need on a battlefield with the modern technology of today, wrapped up in an awesome looking machine. I would get serious in this thread if it weren't already for the lengthy post I put up about the features of a T-90, and also about some future plans for the tank, in my post in the M-84AS/M-95 thread. And unlike most, I am biased towards Russian arms. To me they always fascinated me because they make the most rugged and battle ready equipment out of any nation. There are ZERO politics involved in producing and fielding Russian equipment. The only thing they care about is if it will make the soldier better. That's just my opinion though. The example I always use is England. They ALL hate the L-85/SA-80 rifle, but because some British guy invented it, and since he still isn't dead, out of respect they keep the gun. I have no idea how someone makes that call, when possibly it is costing soldiers' lives out in the field, it's just stupid. That's the difference between Russia and the West.
 
CH3TN!K said:
The example I always use is England. They ALL hate the L-85/SA-80 rifle, but because some British guy invented it, and since he still isn't dead, out of respect they keep the gun. I have no idea how someone makes that call, when possibly it is costing soldiers' lives out in the field, it's just stupid. That's the difference between Russia and the West.
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A family friend worked on the SA80, he was part of the design team at Enfield Lock, before it was closed down by Thatcher. They had all manner of the problems with the gas system, he redesigned the system until it finally worked. One day he walked into his boss's officer, threw the SA 80 on his desck and said "This piece of crap will never work properly." His boss shrugged and basically said, "Its out of our hands, its now political, we have got to get it working." From what I heard, the SAS refused to use it and chose the M16 and M4 instead, and that during the first Gulf War British troops had so many problems with it they had to ship out the old SLR L1A1, which at least worked reliably.

Personally I don't like the layout, it can't be used left handed, so firing from around cover off the left shoulder is impossible. Personally I think it is a bad design, maybe troops today like the rifle, I've never spoken to anyone who has actually used it in a hot situation. Maybe 42RM can enlighten us.
 
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Maybe L2A6 has the best gun in the world, but the refleks can be deadly from 5km so, first shot is at T-90. I also heard the L2 has horrible filters
 
Oh, the Russian began cheat moneys by sell their arms of poor quality.:rockin:

Believe me, an anti-tank mines only worth with $100 enough blow up the track of T90 tank. then the tank can't mobilize, stay at the ground and waiting to dead. Vary of anti-weapons had sufficient times aim it's target.(Anti-armor rocket,missile and artilery ,Antitank guns....ect) .

of course ,the most stupid thing is shoot down the soldiers around this tank. then the infantry rush to tank and end it use explosive.
 
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